Fantasy Book Club discussion

It's July 1st somewhere, so I'm going to kick things off now. :)

This is where we can have at it. This thread is really meant for those that have finished the book. If you're still reading, or haven't read it yet, and want to ask some questions, let me know and I'll start a thread along those lines.

So for those that have finished it, what did you think? Like it, love it, meh? Anything surprise you? Anything offend you?

I'll start with the following, but feel free to throw out any question/thoughts you like. I tried to do something a little different with this series, in particular, blurring the lines of good vs evil. I didn't want it to be a true dichotomy. What do you think about that?

I like blurring the lines, and I like characters who are grey, and I like anti-heroes, and dark characters who are ultimately "good" in the context on the story... but I also like having at least one character I can route for, even if they're not always "good", and I had a hard time finding that character while reading this.

I am not an individual who offends easily so I have to say that there was nothing in this book that outright offended me. That said, the use of blood magic left me foundering to find the 'good guys' in this book. It wasn't until we encountered the 'native Americans' and then the Obek that I found magic users who resonated with their world instead of forcing their will upon it... and yet they were willing to lay down their lives to support those who do.

I really did like the roles that the Church members played in the setting up of the events. The idea that a pope could birth the Beast was a nice touch.

Thanks, Jeff, I really enjoyed twisting biblical prophecy. :)

blackrose, sorry you didn't find a character you could empathize with. They're all flawed (sometimes in a lot of ways) and my hope, despite the fact that it was difficult to tell where each person's loyalties resided, was that readers could find one that character resonated with them.

What did you think of the use of Wormwood? It's a recreational drug for some races and extremely addictive for humans. Hence, the Witch Hunters are so subservient. John had also been hooked on a milder form (wick) in his youth.

Ahh wormwood. Reminds me of the drug problem in our world today. It is so out of control and the things a person will do once addicted.

What I found interesting about Wormwood was how it insinuated itself into and bound itself up with the soul. A very nasty herb unlike anything we have in this world. Is it reasonable to assume that the herb acquired these attributes when the Shift occurred and realities bled back into one another?

Exactly. Almost like a meth addiction from our world, yet more serious.

Yes. And with the Shift, the door is wide open for all kinds of things to change. More to come, I assure you. :)

I shifted a lot in points of view with this book, something that will continue in the remainder of the series. It can be a bit distracting for some. Is something that worked well with you or would you rather see less of it?

blackrose wrote: "I like blurring the lines, and I like characters who are grey, and I like anti-heroes, and dark characters who are ultimately "good" in the context on the story... but I also like having at least o..."

I found that Friar John filled that role for me, especially as I got closer and closer to the end. His role at the end of the book had the most impact on me.

David wrote: "I shifted a lot in points of view with this book, something that will continue in the remainder of the series. It can be a bit distracting for some. Is something that worked well with you or would ..."

This is something that works well for me. I like books that shift around; it keeps my brain from getting old and crusty. lol

I'm a fan of shifting POV. I've seen it in other books, namely George R.R. Martin and Weis&Hickman, and it always works well for me. I like getting the perspective of other characters.

I liked the shifting POVs. I thought everything flowed well, so didn't find it distracting at all. (Haven't had the pleasure of George R R Martin yet, it's sitting on the bookshelf waiting :D)

Oh, you'll like him. Nice gritty fiction. He was a huge influence on me.

I don't mind shifting perspectives, but I prefer it to stick with 2 or 3 people/groups.

I had a hard time keeping track of time with the shifts in this one. You'd follow certain people for a few days, then you'd jump to another group, and weeks had passed. It seemed to jump around oddly in that perspective.

I had no problem with the shifting POVs.

The Haudenosaunee - what did you think of their role and what did you like about them?

Or not like....

Heh. Ya know - they were kinda cool, as a whole, but they also seemed kind of pointless in the overall scheme of things.

No, not pointless - I guess they just didn't make that much of an impression on me.

I don't mind reading books that have shifting perspectives. It makes me think more about what is really going on "behind the scenes".

Here's my review: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

I pretty much address things that I'm seeing on this thread. Overall it was an enjoyable read.

Thanks Chris! Glad you enjoyed it!

I really loved this book. Your characters are amazing and I wanted to delve deeper into each one. You made them real for me.

One problem I had was with the character Brahm. I adored her. In the first portion of the book, you described her as dark-skinned but then followed it up with a description of her skin being the color of buttermilk. I dont really think of buttermilk as dark so I imagined a cup of well creamed coffee although that left some questions as to how I should envision her. Was she of African descent or American Indian or Middle Eastern? Then in the last part of the book, her description changed to calling her black. Which is totally different from buttermilk as a color. It put a halt to the movie that was playing in my head (which I have to say you did a wonderful job of crafting) so that I could reconfigure how I saw a main character.

Another issue was with the ending. I wanted something stronger which at least hinted at what was to come and where we were headed in this. I also felt there were many plot points that were unanswered but since this is the first in a series, I hope to find my answers in the next books.

I felt discouraged from continuing on further in the series because many of the characters that I wanted to follow into further books were killed in the last chapter. It left less of a pull toward continuing although your writing is good enough that I want more.

I feel like all I did here was point out the bad when by far this would have been a 5 star read or even 5+ stars if I had not been so disappointed with the last chapter. This world you created is amazing and I want to see more of it!

Thanks Jason! I certainly hope the coming books will continue to engage you.

Which of the characters were you most interested in?

As for buttermilk, it wasn't meant as a color. It was meant to describe the richness of her skin. Perhaps that didn't come across correctly.

David wrote: "Thanks Jason! I certainly hope the coming books will continue to engage you.

Which of the characters were you most interested in?

As for buttermilk, it wasn't meant as a color. It was meant to d..."

I'm with Jason on being confused about Brahm's skin color. When I was reading, I dismissed using buttermilk as a texture because it's sort of curdy and full of bits of clabbered milk. Not exactly a pleasant image for skin! LOL.

maybe 'smooth as buttermilk' might have worked better then. That makes sense to me now.

Well, I really wanted to know more about Mira. That character could have been built on magnificently along with her relationship with Great Bear. I also want to learn more about Gault and his people.

But I have to say, the one that upset me the most was the loss of Diarmuid. He, of all the characters, had me sold. Diarmuid and Brahm were favorites. I wanted to see where the spark between Paine and Diarmuid led. :( (They really needed to have sex, btw)

I also felt a loss for Dior. I know his soul is still within the story but I found myself liking him.

I wouldn't count Diarmuid and Dior out just yet. :)

~bounces~ okay!

Any chance of sex? :D

Wouldn't count that out either. ;)

you tease! :D

LOL! As for Diarmuid, I hinted at his whereabouts. John has his soul trapped in an urn. He captured it. And a part of Paine's journey in the next book is to find Isis to help bring Diarmuid back.

oh wow!! That is going to be awesome!

I think it should be interesting. :)

Definitely! When will the next book be out?

Not soon enough? :)

Still working on it. I'm hoping for early next year.

Hurry, dammit! lol!

Thought I'd throw this out there. How would you classify this book? Fantasy?

maybe Dark Fantasy, but yeah, Fantasy.

David wrote: "Thought I'd throw this out there. How would you classify this book? Fantasy?"

I'd say it was dark fantasy. It's not really horror, although it edges that direction now and then.

I would classify it as fantasy.

This is an interesting question for me, because my heyday of fantasy reading was back in my youth, so (unfortunately) the defintion of fantasy that is firmly entrenched in my mind is that of a 12-year old who is expecting a straightforward, black and white good vs evil, swordfight-heavy or quest type story. (Clearly I need to branch out and discover some new fantasy authors, which is what I am doing here!)

My point then:
1) I was pleasantly surprised by my stupidly naive expecations being overturned :)
2) If I was to pick this up as my younger self seeing this laballed as "fantasy", I don't think I would have liked it or understood/appreciated it.

David, how would you classify it? Was there a problem with classification from the publishers point of view?

Yes, that's exactly why I ask. I had one editor at a fantasy house say that she thought this fit in the horror genre and that it reminded her of Stephen King (The Stand). Others had an issue with how to classify it since it didn't fit neatly into the fantasy genre.

I suppose I would put it into dark fantasy.

I know I am being incredibly simplistic, but that's just stupid, a good book is a good book, who cares if it doesn't fit neatly into a genre?

I agree. I think sometimes they have to look at books and decide who they're going to sell it to and how. I've had a number of non-fantasy readers really enjoy this book so I think it has a broader potential, so maybe I need to start hitting up editors that are not in the fantasy genre.

And of course, there's nothing stopping me from bringing the next book out independently in the meantime. :)

I'm glad there is the option for you to publish it yourself :)

Thanks! Me too!! :)