Constant Reader discussion

Al suggested we discuss this book around the last of July. Is this exceptable to others who want to join in?
I for one am looking forward to discussing this with others.

I am 40 pp. from the end and stand (well sit, really) ready to jump in.

Okay, Thanks for the nudge.

Je suis fini. I'd say it in Dutch but my Dutch is as suspect as John Wilkes Booth.

I wouldn't understand it anyway. I only speak English and write it a little. Where is everyone? Helllloooooooooooo out there anyone besides you and me?

I have 130 pp. to go - if you want to go ahead and start discussing i will jump in when i finish, i will avoid this thread until then in case of spoilers!

Don't you need a quorum to start a discussion? Three will not generate much (unless it's blind mice you're generating).

I think we can wait. I don't want others to run after us with a butcher knife.

I left Gabrielle a message. I don't remember who else wanted to join in though.

I know Roxanne also wanted to join in

I sent Roxanne a message also.

Thanks you guys. I definitely want to join in but I don't have the book yet.If you want to start immediately I will go and buy it instead of waiting. I think I have a while to go on the waitlist at the library. And since everyone else is almost done, it seems like a better idea for me to go and get it. I have some books to sell at the used bookstore, so I can trade up for theh book.So - if you want to start at end of July okay by me.

Is everyone also reading Agee's book for the classic discussion? Let Us Now Praise Famous Men

I am waiting for my copy of famous men to come. The one from the library was in tatters . I read half and had to return it . Pages were missing. Jacob was a good book .

I don't have the book yet and I doubt I'll be able to read it until August. I definitely want to discuss it, though, so I might have to jump in late.

I just bought the Jacob de Zoet book and may be able to join in a discussion here, depending on the timing.

Give us a time frame. I have read it and so has NE, we are waiting for others. Ok.

I'm thinking of reading it, too. But I'd have to buy it. And I've got a library book I need to finish first.

Ok. So do I Ruth.

I'd like to join in. I have the book ready to bring with me on holiday. I leave this week - and I'm sure to start already on the plane!

August sounds good to me, but if people want to start sooner, I'll just join in later.

I just finished yesterday - looking forward to discussing in August!

August it is then. I am looking forward to it also. I have a few questions, they are probably obvious ,but they are disturbing me.

Carol - you can email your questions to me if it is really making you crazy.

Okay, I'll get started reading this coming weekend!

Philip:
I really think you will love this book - it is totally up your alley.

I think we all all on board for August for the discussion . I don't know who wants to start it.

In the mean time I have read another book by Mitchell and I am entranced by his writing.

I'm about a third of the way in to "Jacob de Zoet." Though we own a copy of his Cloud Atlas, the one I've read (and love) is Black Swan Green.

I was enthralled with Black Swan Green. I could not put it down.

Cloud Atlas is more complex and more Mitchell's signature style than Black Swan Green. Most of his books are not at all straightforward.

I can't wait for Aug. 1. What did others think about the book. I was thrown a bit about the use of Dutch and Japanese.
I was questioning Al about how some critics were comparing Mitchell's writing to Tolstoy's W&P. I could not figure that out. It did not seem of epic proportions as Tolstoy's W&P.


Money, greed and profit is still the mantra for commerce. I felt like the Japanese were like the Indians, only the Japanese were better able to resist the influx of foreign influence and to actually out smart the foreigners by insisting on isolating the outsiders from the general public.

Carol (Kitty) wrote: "I can't wait for Aug. 1. "
Me neither!

About the language use: I'm Dutch, and I read the original English version. Mitchell does a good job mingling the three languages, but maybe this is one of the few books I'd like better in the (Dutch) translation.

And if anyone would like to know the joke about Major Cutlip's "unfortunate" name, erhm... As you probably guessed: x-rated.

Please enlighten I am dense. Just keep it soft.

Carol (Kitty) wrote: "Please enlighten I am dense. Just keep it soft."

OK, here goes: you'd write it "Kutlip" in Dutch, but the pronunciation is the same. "Lip" has the same meaning as in English, the first three letters are common slang for the female genitalia.

So here is you first lesson in Dutch cursing :/

Thank you.. What did you think of the total book Jantien? I liked the book on the whole. The monastery repulsed me though. I don't want to say to much. I know other cultures had the same basic beliefs.

Do you think isolation is why the Japanese were able to maintain their cultural heritage for so long or is it something else?

Carol (Kitty) wrote: "I think we can wait. I don't want others to run after us with a butcher knife.

I left Gabrielle a message. I don't remember who else wanted to join in though."

I don't even have the book yet. :( My husband's and my finances this month have precluded book buying, getting hair done, and even paying my health insurance! :O And some people say the recession is over! LOL Not for us.

And the library here doesn't have it. To make matters worse, my computer gave up the ghost this weekend. (Obviously I'm using a computer, but it's not mine. I'd love to keep it, but can't, darn it.)

I do know Mitchell is nothing at all like Tolstoy, though. Tolstoy was into character development, while Mitchell is postmodern and has always been more interested in the architecture of his novels than in character development. Cloud Atlas has a 1-2-3-4-5-6-5-4-3-2-1 structure. The climax of the book came in the middle.

I didn't understand the Tolstoy comparison, either. Publisher hyperbole, is all.

@ Carol (32): Interesting thought. Japan's isolation policy of the time seemed to come directly from a fear of their culture being "contaminated" by other cultures. You could well be right; this might have kept Japan's culture from changing a lot.

It's a strange notion for me though, I always rather tend to see culture as something fluid, developing further (mind you, not better per se) and interacting with other cultures, than as something static. Any country that wants to keep the exact same culture is bound to fail sooner later.

Overall, I liked the book a lot. Mitchell diverses here from his usual postmodern style and made a true page turner.

I've found this fun, digested read, by the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/...

This also points out a few style quirks that I couldn't help but noticing too. Those distracted me a little - not only the thoughts in italics, but also the alternating sentences: description of surroundings - description of action / dialogue - surroundings - action / dialogue, and so on.

Does anybody know if this is a Japanese style figure?

I enjoyed the book ,except some phrases that were in Dutch, but After looking them up I had understood the meanings correctly. Mitchell is a superb storyteller of number one wlank.

Jantien wrote: "@ Carol (32): Interesting thought. Japan's isolation policy of the time seemed to come directly from a fear of their culture being "contaminated" by other cultures. You could well be right; this mi..."

See? He's more interested in the architecture of the book than in developing believable characters.

MrsSeby (Gabrielle) wrote: "See? He's more interested in the architecture of the book than in developing believable characters."

Gabrielle, I don't fully agree with you here. Though those were two style quips that bothered me a bit, those were relatively small scale, and didn't influence the overall structure of the book. But I wouldn't call it character-driven either, it seems more story-driven to me.

I have read other books and this is all about the story for me. I loved the storyline. The language is colorful .I can't fault Mitchell there. Historical he is right on. The Eastern cultures have similarities that are reflective of their outlook on death. You don't pass this way once according to them and what you are or do in this life is carried over into the next life. I think that is still what they adhere to today. Am I correct? I know very little about Buddhism or its various sects.

Jantien wrote: "MrsSeby (Gabrielle) wrote: "See? He's more interested in the architecture of the book than in developing believable characters."

Gabrielle, I don't fully agree with you here. Though those were two..."

I've not read this particular book, yet, so I'm no doubt wrong about Mitchell. I'm glad he's getting more into story than architecture. I do like him, though. I've found his work enjoyable, though I couldn't take a steady pace of it. I'm glad when I do read the book, it won't be as postmodern as Cloud Atlas. I think Mitchell is a terrific writer, but I'm not into postmodern in a big way.

Carol, Buddhism still does adhere to reincarnation. It's believed that we get what we need in order to evolve. Not necessarily punishment for bad deeds or rewards for good, but we receive the life lessons we need.

Many Japanese adhere to Shinto. I don't know much about that.

http://jinja.jp/english/s-4f.html

Thanks for the link . Not too different from other beliefs.

I am not a fan (at all) of "post-modernism" and yet I like Mitchell. A lot depends on which book, too. Black Swan Green and Jacob de Zoet both have conventional narratives. And most of the narratives in Cloud Atlas also are conventional. The one in the middle is certainly an exception, but overall, nothing posty in my opinion.

The Shinto religion forced Japanese into emperor worship, produced kamikaze pilots and lots of nasty behavior. There are many Buddhist sects.

What I found astonishing is that Buddhist priests destroyed this beautiful temple because their status quo was upset. The SGI adheres to Nichren Daishonin's belief that everyone can achieve Buddhahood and you don't need priests to do it.

WOW Thanks

I enjoyed Jacob de Zoet a lot. Once it got started I found the story very interesting and its flow not always easy to predict. I thought Mitchell did a wonderful job with his characters and also with his presentation of life in that small trading colony in Nagasaki harbor.

There were some intriguing stylistic devices that were fun for me to notice and ponder, such as [SPOILER ALERT:] the sly rhyming prose description of the diving and swooping seagulls at the start of chapter 39, told from the point of view of Magistrate Shiroyama contemplating his need to commit hari-kari -- all one long, exhausting run-on sentence.

In fact, Mitchell had a fascinating way of presenting the turmoil and inner focus of characters facing imminent death (now now now) -- which made it hard to know at times which characters might or might not survive a particular crisis.

I hope you don't mind me jumping into your discussion. I'm a Constant Reader from way back, but haven't had time to participate much in recent years.

I just finished this book today. It's setting in Japan interested me because I lived there for a couple of years a long, long time ago. The fact that it was written by David Mitchell also drew me in. Cloud Atlas ended up confusing me, but (as most people here have noted), Black Swan Green was very readable. Along with Philip, I had a hard time putting this book down.

WARNING PLOT SPOILERS

Mitchell lived in Japan for a number of years and his wife is Japanese. What he wrote about Japanese culture rang true to me. The exception would be his weird subplot about the monks breeding and then killing the babies. That whole part seemed straight out of a sci-fi book. On the other hand, it certainly kept me glued to the page and I was willing to go along for the ride.

I liked the fact that the plot kept twisting and turning in unexpected directions. Occasionally, it bothered me that he didn't really explain what happened. For example, he built up all the suspense of Orito escaping and then when he finally got back to her many pages later, just told us that she had decided to return.

Have any of you read James Clavell's Shogun, another historical novel about a foreigner in Japan who is in love with a Japanese woman? At times this book reminded me of that. Mitchell is certainly far more talented stylistically, but he and Clavell are both exceptional storytellers.

Yes I read Shogun many years ago and some parts have stayed with me. Ann the discussions are always open to who ever wants to put their 2 cents in. The more the merry.

Welcome home, Ann. We've missed you!

Ann wrote: "I hope you don't mind me jumping into your discussion. I'm a Constant Reader from way back, but haven't had time to participate much in recent years.

I just finished this book today. It's setting..."

I read Shogun and loved it, but I didn't remember Blackthorne (I think that was his name) being in love with Japanese women as much as just one Japanese woman in particular. Is that correct, or have I forgotten something, which is quite possible.

Philip wrote: "I enjoyed Jacob de Zoet a lot. Once it got started I found the story very interesting and its flow not always easy to predict. I thought Mitchell did a wonderful job with his characters and also ..."

Those stylistic choices are the things about Mitchell that irritate me. I think he's a near genius writer, one of the best persons writing today, but I do find some of his choices irritating. He can't please all of the people all of the time, though.

The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet has made this year's Booker longlist. I'm not sure when the shortlist will be announced.