The History Book Club discussion

Hello Everyone,

This begins the eleventh week's reading in our new Spotlighted group discussion.

The complete table of contents is as follows:

SYLLABUS:

Table of Contents

Introduction xi - cvi
A Note on the Text – cvii – cviii
Acknowledgements – cix
Selected Further Readings – cx – cxi
Chronology – cxii –cxiii
Preface – 1 – 4
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TOC – First Volume

ONE: The Extent and Military Force of the Empire, in the Age of the Antonines p. 31

TWO: Of the Union and Internal Prosperity of the Roman Empire in the Age of the Antonines p. 56

THREE: Of the Constitution of the Roman Empire in the Age of the Antonines p. 85

FOUR: The Cruelty, Follies, and Murder of Commodus – Election of Pertinax – His Attempts to reform the State. – His Assassination by the Pretorian Guards. p. 108

FIVE: Public Sale of the Empire to Didius Julianus by the Praetorian Guards. – Clodius Albinus in Britain, Pescennius Niger in Syria, and Septimius Severus in Pannonia, declare against the Murderers of Pertinax. – Civil Wars and Victory of Severus over his three Rivals. – Relaxation of Discipline, - New Maxims of Government. p. 127

SIX: The Death of Severus. – Tyranny of Caracellaa. – Usurpation of Macrinus. – Follies of Elagabulus. – Virtues of Alexander Severus. – Licentiousness of the Army. – General State of the Roman Finances. – p. 149

SEVEN: The Elevation and Tyranny of Maximin. – Rebellion in Africa and Italy, under the Authority of the Senate. – Civil Wars and Seditions. – Violent Deaths of Maximin and his Son, of Maximus and Balbinus, and of the three Gordians. – surpation and secular Games of Philip. p. 187

EIGHT: Of the State of Persia after the Restoration of the Monarchy of Artaxerxes p. 213

NINE: The State of Germany till the Invasion of the Barbarians, in the Time of the Emperor Decius. p. 230

TEN: The Emperor Decius, Gallus, Aemilianus, Valerian, and Gallienus. – The general Irruption of the Barbarians, - The thirty Tyrants. p. 253

ELEVEN: Reign of Claudius. – Defeat of the Goths. – Victories, Triumph, and Death of Aurelian. p. 295

TWELVE: Conduct of the Army and Senate after the Death of Aurelian. – Reigns of Tacitus, Probus, Carus, and his Sons. p. 327

THIRTEEN: The Reign of Diocletian and his three Associates, Maximian, Galerius, and Constantius, - General Re-establishment of Order and Tranquility. – The Persian War, Victory and Triumph. – The New Form of Administration. – Abdication and Retirement of Diocletian and Maximian. p. 358

FOURTEEN: Troubles after the Abdication of Diocletian. – Death of Constantius. – Elevation of Constantine and Maxentius. – Six Emperors at the Same Time. – Death of Maximian and Galerius. – Victories of Constantine over Maxentius and Licinius. – Re-union of the Empire under the Authority of Constantine. p. 400

FIFTEEN: The Progress of the Christian Religion, and the Sentiments, Manners, Numbers, and Condition of the primitive Christians. p. 446

SIXTEEN: The Conduct of the Roman Government towards the Christians, from the Reign of Nero to that of Constantine. p. 514


Appendix I – 1084 - 1105

Edward Gibbon

Note: This is a group membership selected book.

The assignment for this eleventh week includes the following segments/pages:


WEEK ELEVEN: Reign of Claudius. – Defeat of the Goths. – Victories, Triumph, and Death of Aurelian. p. 295 - 326


We look forward to your participation; but remember this is a non spoiler thread.

We will open up threads for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers.

This book was kicked off on May 10th. This will be the eleventh week's assignment for this book.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library.

A special welcome to those who will be newcomers to this discussion and thank you to those who have actively contributed on the previous Spotlighted book selection. We are glad to have you all.

Welcome,

~Bentley

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

I have to admit that I did not enjoy reading about the Goth's account in this chapter. Nothing stays after reading a sentence *shrugs*

Nevertheless, one could not refrain from thinking that Aurelian was quite awesome. Kinda reminds me of Septimius Severus, if only because they're both soldier-emperors. I want to discuss his end, but that would be a spoiler, right?

Silvana wrote: "I have to admit that I did not enjoy reading about the Goth's account in this chapter. Nothing stays after reading a sentence *shrugs*

Nevertheless, one could not refrain from thinking that Aureli..."
One of the moderators would have to rule on discussing his death, but since it happens in this chapter I would think it is fair game for discussion. What do you mean by your first two sentence?

Yes you are correct Patricrk; on this thread there are no spoilers allowed.

Bentley wrote: "Yes you are correct Patricrk; on this thread there are no spoilers allowed."

but if the event happens in this chapter, isn't it fair game for discussion.

Patricrk wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Yes you are correct Patricrk; on this thread there are no spoilers allowed."

but if the event happens in this chapter, isn't it fair game for discussion."

If it has occurred in the weekly reading, then it can be discussed. If it occurred before the weekly reading, it can be discussed. Only an event which comes after the assigned reading is not allowed in a non spoiler thread. Since I am catching up, I will leave it to you to decide if this is in the current weekly reading; if it is you can of course discuss it.

Patricrk wrote: "One of the moderators would have to rule on discussing his death, but since it happens in this chapter I would think it is fair game for discussion. What do you mean by your first two sentence? "

I think I shall wait before discussing that particular issue. Especially since I read something in Redmont's post that makes me want to reread the chapter.

Oh about the first two sentences...It basically means that I did not find anything interesting and no information stays in my brain at all. It felt like I was just skimming the pages whereas I wasn't. But that's just me, I'm sure some people would find it interesting.

Redmond wrote: "The fame of Longinus, who was included among the numerous and perhaps innocent victims of her fear, will survive that of the queen who betrayed, or the tyrant who condemned him. Genius and learning..."

There was discussion about good deaths over in the thread on Master and Commander. Can a person redeem his loss on honor by the manner of his death?
Patrick O'Brian

I have no idea Patricrk. For me these seem separate and/or different. I guess if you have been deemed dishonorable already; I am not sure how the quality of your death would mean much. If however as Redmond stated you life is honorable then how you die only gives tribute to your life and there are many who wanted to face death as they faced life (with honor). Death is death, final and enduring; I never understood how that is good.

Bentley wrote: "I have no idea Patricrk. For me these seem separate and/or different. I guess if you have been deemed dishonorable already; I am not sure how the quality of your death would mean much. If however..."

I agree death is death, but I sure don't want to spend the last years in a nursing home staring at the TV screen.

I understand.

Redmond wrote: "Sylvana, I just deleted a long, meandering post, which boiled down to this. I find that grasping the great movements of the Goths south to be difficult, too.

I think you should keep reading and no..."
It doesn't help that he assumes a knowledge of geography based on the names of places either in classical or his current time. Most of which are unrecognizable to most of us.

Patricrk wrote: It doesn't help that he assumes a knowledge of geography based on the names of places either in classical or his current time. Most of which are unrecognizable to most of us.
I keep wishing for a map to refer to as I read.I'm sure there is one on the internet somewhere but I don't tend to read near my computer.

Get some of the books on the Romans that I referred to in the beginning thread which should be helpful. They had some good maps which help (for the various epochs/reigns of the various Emperors).

Will be on more when I get out of Yosemite...sketchy internet connections.