Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

Sorry if I'm breaking any rules but I have a...frustrating qualm with YA authors. How come almost every YA book has immorality in it? Can no one write a clean book? Am I the only one who thinks that half the YA market is full of immorality forcing readers like me to go to childrens books to be able to enjoy a clean book that actually has more plot in it than most YA books?

Immorality.... as in?

Immorality as in...stuff that leads to child bearing (sp?).

The old adage, "Sex sells" comes to mind. It is unfortunately true. I think there are lots of non-smutty teen stories out there, they just aren't the ones getting the attention.

I know exactly what you mean, Stephanie. It always really weirds me out when I come across that stuff. I recommend this one to you, which I think you'll find perfectly suits your tastes. It's called Powerless: The Synthesis. It might be exactly the breath of fresh air you're looking for. Plus it's a fun read!

I'm sure there are but the problem is are they worth reading? It seems like most of the YA genre is either immoral or has almost no plot to it. It actually sounds good, Rachel. I'll have to see when I can get it.

I agree -- there is way too much sex and sexual situations in today's YA books. Are these authors trying to make the teenagers of today completely slutty??? It drives me crazy. I mean, I'm all for a good romance, but it feels wrong to read it when you know it's geared toward kids. I'm reading A Great and Terrible Beauty right now and is wonderful so far. It's YA, set in England in the 1800's and deals with magic/other realms/talking with the dead/etc. It's really great and so far, (I'm 80% done with it) no inappropriate sexual relationships! :)

Well, while I do not find anything immoral - that is a ridiculous Christian notion - in these things I agree that sexual subtext in such literature is inappropriate.

I do not think authors are trying to make teenagers slutty because the fact of the matter is that they generally are. All media have turned into such slutfests that it's not funny any more. Turn on the tube, there's the "Real Housewives from Orange County" who look and act like bimbos from Hollywood Blvd, there's the "Real Housewives from New Jersey," who look like street hookers out of New York, then there are the Kardashians with their retarded antics, there are the teenie idols like Britney, Mariah Carey and Paris who have taken sluttiness to never-before-seen levels, look at the entire hip-hop and rap scene that has made pornography a lifestyle, and the list goes on endlessly.

The problem is that our society has fallen to such lows that every little girl aspires to being the next reality TV superslut.

The way YA books deal with this subject is really mild and negligible by comparison.

Christian? Maybe. Ridiculous? I disagree. There was a time in this world when things like this mattered. I think there are more moral teens than many might suspect. Although, I'm not ignorant I know that many are. But who exactly do you think taught them? And even so, maybe people should do the right thing and steer them away from such behavior. And no, not every little girls has that desire.

You misunderstand. I completely agree with you, I just don't consider these things "immoral." The word is wrong. "Morals" have nothing to do with sexuality. That is a misguided Christian thing, when they started imposing their skewed world view upon the world. But let's not discuss religion...

Fine- I hate debating religion anyway. Still there's nothing wrong with an author making a stand and maybe conveying that such scandelous behavior isn't exactly right. Christian or not. Or writing clean novels...

Arguing religion and values is a delicate area. However, authors should NEVER dismiss one group because of disagreeing with their views. As a YA fantasy author, I deal with kids in middle school and you're right, Stephanie, there are more kids that want good clean books then are counted.

Numerous parents, kids and librarians have told me they are tried of the sexual, graphic and profanity laced books being written for kids. Whereas some may not agree with 'Christian' principles per say, you're also right in there was a time when society practiced discretion and kept adult themes from kids. I'm old enough to remember those times. :)

The pendulum has swung to the opposite extreme, exposing kids to everything without regard for whether they can handle it or not. All these are reasons why I wrote stories from a moral point of view, to give an alternative to many who are ignored.

You have my appreciation. It's just frustrating sometimes when you realize that half your bookshelf is kids books because they're the only ones that you can find that have plot beyond, "I wonder if he likes me I really like him", and are clean.

I used to work in a book store, and several times a week I'd have parents trying to find books for their teens. I had to warn them constantly about the themes in so many of them. The parents would ask for a clean YA novel. The sad fact was I hadn't read any (currently on the shelves) that were, except the classics. I always advised the parents to look through what their teens (and sometimes pre-teens) wanted to read. Unfortunately, I know several didn't.

Unlocked
A new YA collection of short, *clean* stories...coming out in August.

Forgot the link to ALLON

http://www.allonbooks.com

Book 2 is due out this fall.Good old fashion fantasies along the line of LOTR & Narnia. NO vampires, werewolves! The trend is waning but authors and publishers keep pushing it because of Twilight.

Stephanie wrote: "Christian? Maybe. Ridiculous? I disagree. There was a time in this world when things like this mattered. I think there are more moral teens than many might suspect. Although, I'm not ignorant I kno..."

"Morality" is a matter of opinion. Some people think that a gay couple kissing is immoral, for example, but have no problems with a straight couple kissing. Some people think the mere mention of a gay character in a book makes it immoral.

Some people think Judy Blume's book "Are You There God, It's Me Margaret" and "The Diary of Anne Frank" are immoral because both books talk about the onset of menarche.

So, if what you are talking about is sexual situations, come out and say so.

Teens are struggling to understand who they are, and that includes feelings/attractions. While it is not necessary to write about sexual situations, I think it is important to write about those struggles so that teens understand they are not alone in them -- and writing about reality is not immoral.

Lisa MH wrote: "I used to work in a book store, and several times a week I'd have parents trying to find books for their teens. I had to warn them constantly about the themes in so many of them. The parents would ..."

This. Read the book before you give it to your teen if you aren't sure.

I disagree. It's not an author's job to address those type of situations. It's the parents. There are some things/themes in life that do not belong in a book.

Stephanie wrote: "I disagree. It's not an author's job to address those type of situations. It's the parents. There are some things/themes in life that do not belong in a book."

Because all kids are comfortable talking with their parents about their feelings ...

Gotcha.

Let's leave sexual situations out of it, since I already said that it isn't necessary to write those in teen books (in case you missed that).

What do you say to the kid with uber-religious parents who is struggling with his or her sexual orientation and feels like he or she might be alone?

"Talk to your parents about it?"

Or the kid who is being abused by one of his or her parents?

"Talk to your parents about it?"

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Kids need a variety of tools , and not all parents are able to provide them.

You see, I think that censorship is immoral, and saying that "There are some things/themes in life that do not belong in a book" is censorship. If you don't want to read something, no one is forcing you to -- but don't tell me what I can and cannot read (or write) because of your "morality."

Whether or not a teen is comfortable varies. But the fact still remains, it is the parents' job to do that. If some parents won't or aren't really the type who you can talk to then there are other people who can. Other family members, adult friends, ect. If they can't provide answers then the parents need to go and learn what those answers are.

Okay, Stephanie? I just looked at your profile and am now aware that you are yourself a child. I could not tell that readily from your thumbnail icon.

You are in an adult group here, and many of us are professional authors. I have addressed you as though you were an adult, and make no apologies for it.

However, I find it wildly inappropriate for a child to be lecturing adults on what is or is not moral; you have no life experience on which to base your judgment of others. If you are not sure about a particular book, take your own advice and talk with your parents.

Stephanie wrote: "Whether or not a teen is comfortable varies. But the fact still remains, it is the parents' job to do that. If some parents won't or aren't really the type who you can talk to then there are other ..."

You make an awful lot of assumptions, don't you? Like, for example, that a child has access to other adults to discuss these issues? Or that parents are interested in learning about matters that may not jibe with their personal beliefs and opinions?

The only access to information some teens may have is the library. Do you understand that? That may be hard for you to grasp, but it is indeed so. They may not have a trusted adult friend with whom they can address difficult situations like domestic violence, etc.

I am glad that (apparently) you live in a rarefied, problem-free atmosphere and can talk to your parents about anything and everything. Not all kids are that fortunate.

Okay, one. I'm not a child, thank you. I wasn't trying to lecture, merely notify authors of my displeasure. I understand that I'm in an adult group, thank you. Techinically, I'm actually not because the title it Authors/Readers so.... And I knew how you were adressing me before. No life experiance? I wouldn't say I don't have any but I am humble enough to admit I'm not all wise and everyone should listen to me. It's not about being sure about a paticular book, it's about speaking out and letting some (and I say some because not all YA are like this) authors know that one: YA understand bigger plots than most YA books present. Two: most material we find is inappropriate and that many authors are only feeding one audiance and neglecting the other.

Sharon wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "Whether or not a teen is comfortable varies. But the fact still remains, it is the parents' job to do that. If some parents won't or aren't really the type who you can talk to th..."

All right, I have been unclear in my communication. I was talking about fiction, ect. genres that are innappropriately displaying these type of things.

Books actually meant to respectfully teach you about things like this (although I find it awkward) can be useful. I know a lot of kids don't have the ideal life but does that mean because of that we should automatically assume what they want? Maybe I'm totally wrong- I can't say because, yeah, I live a pretty good life.

And no, I'm not exactly comfortable about talking to my parents about everything but it doesn't matter who the parent is. A parent is supposed to be there for their child and it's a shame that some parents neglect that responsibility.

Stephanie wrote: "Okay, one. I'm not a child, thank you. I wasn't trying to lecture, merely notify authors of my displeasure. I understand that I'm in an adult group, thank you. Techinically, I'm actually not becaus..."

Okay, you're a teen, not a "child."

I don't need lectures from a teen, either, to be honest.

The best thing to do, Stephanie, is to vote with your dollars. If you don't approve of a particular book, don't buy it. But don't sit there and tell people that "There are some things/themes in life that do not belong in a book." You don't get to decide for anyone but yourself.

You also wrote: "I know a lot of kids don't have the ideal life but does that mean because of that we should automatically assume what they want? Maybe I'm totally wrong- I can't say because, yeah, I live a pretty good life. "

I'm glad for you.

I think that authors write about a variety of experiences for a variety of reasons and audiences. When you say "There are some things/themes in life that do not belong in a book," you are *also* "automatically assuming what they want." The truth is, you don't know about anyone's experience except your own.

That's why there is more than one kind of book in the world -- because people have multiple experiences, needs and issues. And that is what makes the human race so fascinating.

You are most assuredly entitled to your own "morality," whatever that may be. But honestly? It's inappropriate to put a demand on others by "notifying authors" that they should write books solely to suit you and your experiences/beliefs/etc. If I don't like a particular author's work, I don't read them anymore. If I thought a particular book wasn't very good, I write a constructive review about *why.* I don't go and tell them that "you should only write this way because of my belief system."

All right, either I can't communicate very well or you've missed my point, entirely. And as I've stated earlier, I'm not trying to lecture you, I apologize. I'm not saying, write books only for me. I'm sorry I come across that way. I'm just trying to let authors know that there are people out there who don't enjoy some of the widely covered topics...

I already know that (in your words) "The truth is, you don't know about anyone's experience except your own." I freely admit that this is my opion alone and that your statement is right. I believe that, and there's nothing in me that disagrees with that. Which is why I said, "Maybe I'm totally wrong- I can't say" because I don't know about everyone's problems.

Also, I don't mean to assume anything, that wasn't my intention. And when I said, "There are some things/themes in life that do not belong in a book." I am speaking for myself. Not everyone else. So I'm not quite sure I see that as assuming but if it is, then I don't mean to.

The way I see it, if people like me who don't enjoy this type of theme don't tell/show (whichever) authors that there are teens out there that don't then I will forever be stuck with the same problems. Now, I know that sounds so self-serving but I don't mean it that way. I'm not trying to say that I'm speaking for everyone, just myself. I'm not trying to lecture, I'm just trying giving my opion. If you want something to change you don't just sit back and watch it happen you do something about it.

Sharon, if anyone is acting like a teen/child, it is you, not Stephanie. You are dismissing her, her feelings and her opinions based solely upon her age.

I am a parent with an adult child and an author of YA fantasy. I listen to many kids Stephanie's age and younger when I visit schools, groups, etc. Their opinions and desires are as valid as any adult and I appreciate their feedback. In fact, their input helped to CRAFT my stories to help THEM grow and learn.

Your dismissive attitude IS WHAT drives some kids NOT to talk to either their parents or any adult.

After I walked away for a couple of minutes, I was able to see exactly what got up my nose, and why I felt like I was being lectured by Stephanie.

It was this phrase: "There are some things/themes in life that do not belong in a book."

That is an absolute. It is a lecture. It is telling people that they may not write about certain things, or read about certain things.

What I now understand that Stephanie meant (and again, thank you for your clarification) is that there are some things she does not like to read herself. Which is not the same statement at all.

Throughout history, many books have been censored as "immoral." As I previously mentioned, "The Diary of Anne Frank" and "Are You There God, It's Me Margaret" were "immoral" because they talked about a young girl getting her first period. "The Scarlet Letter" was immoral because Hester had a child out of wedlock (although the book itself was about the nature of morality during Nathanial Hawthorne's time). "To Kill a Mockingbird" was immoral because one of the characters claims to have been assaulted by a man (she wasn't), although it was a brilliant commentary about prejudice. "Immorality" is, as I mentioned, a matter of opinion.

With that in mind, I would like to know what kind of books Stephanie does like to read. I saw the list included Harry Potter and the Twilight series, but that is pretty limiting in terms of helping me "get it."

I also saw that you like historical fiction. Do you like books that feature young women your own age? Perhaps you would enjoy the novels of Louisa May Alcott. Here are two that I particularly liked:

Or if you like adventure stories:

Maybe you are concerned with animal welfare. This book led to the founding of the Royal Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals:

Maybe you like mysteries? There are whole racks of Hardy Boys (which I preferred, frankly) and Nancy Drew. They've been updated to be a bit more contemporary, but still fun reads.

Finally: I am one of those adults that kids talk to when they can't talk to their parents. Kids whose parents put them out when they said "Mom, Dad, I'm gay." Kids who ran away because they were being sexually abused or beaten. Kids on the verge of suicide. A variety of resources is necessary to help those kids, including fiction to which they are able to relate.

Guido wrote: "Well, while I do not find anything immoral - that is a ridiculous Christian notion - in these things I agree that sexual subtext in such literature is inappropriate.

I do not think authors are try..."

As a practising atheist, I disagree with you. Humans are social animals (in the zoological sense) and, as with all such animals, we have evolved co-dependence as a means of survival. This predicates a pattern of collective behaviour which we label 'morals' (or ethics, if you prefer).

Culture and religion is not the wellspring of morals, instinct is. Indeed, religion is frequently used to justify acts that, by any standard, are recognised as immoral (though not generally so, I hasten to add).

Pat wrote: "Guido wrote: "Well, while I do not find anything immoral - that is a ridiculous Christian notion - in these things I agree that sexual subtext in such literature is inappropriate.

I do not think a..."

I tend to think of ethics as being internally driven and morals as externally driven.

Sharon wrote: "After I walked away for a couple of minutes, I was able to see exactly what got up my nose, and why I felt like I was being lectured by Stephanie.

It was this phrase: "There are some things/theme..."

I'm in agreement here, I'm cautious about any statement saying any subject matter is 'unsuitable', the world is what it is, and children need to understand it.

But I agree with Stephanie in that I don't like graphic sexual or violent writing. There may be times when it is justified, but more often than not it is an attempt to titillate (or shock) the reader and is a poor substitute for a clever story or good writing.

Personally, my own writing frequently deals with both violence and sex (my murder mysteries, obviously do) but I use the model of authors such as Agatha Christie et al, where the reader learns the details of a brutal killing via the detective examining the scene, rather than a blow by blow account of its taking place.

Perhaps I'm just old-fashioned, but the result is that all my books are now in a number of college (high school) libraries, although not specifically written as YA stories.

Pat wrote: "Sharon wrote: "After I walked away for a couple of minutes, I was able to see exactly what got up my nose, and why I felt like I was being lectured by Stephanie.

It was this phrase: "There are so..."

There are certainly ways (in appropriate genres) to portray intimacy without resorting to George Carlin's infamous seven words, or to deal with violence in a non-gratuitous fashion. I wholeheartedly concur with that.

And I absolutely support anyone's right to vote with their dollars by only purchasing books with which they feel comfortable or feel are appropriate for them.

As I said, I was able to walk away and figure out what set me off. In addition to the "There are some things/themes that should not be in books" business, there was one other issue that I was a little reluctant to talk about, but I'm going to now.

I am in the midst of editing my memoir about my time working in the Portland, OR, music business -- and part of that time involved dealing with some young people who had been put out of the house by their parents for being gay, or who had run away to escape domestic violence or sexual abuse. Some of them spent time in my apartment so that they didn't have to sleep in the local squat (an abandoned hospital with crumbling walls open to the weather). These kids did not have parents to whom they could turn -- they had each other. I was only a couple of years older than some of them, and they were in awe of the fact that I had my own apartment, a full-time job and was going to college to boot.

A lot of those kids are, unfortunately, no longer with us.

It is really easy from a position of relative privilege to say that "parents should have the answers." It would be really nice if that were the case, but it isn't. That bothered me a lot, because I know rather more about the nature of reality than I would sometimes like. :-(

When I was writing my fantasy stories many of my daughter's friends came over to talk with me about the characters, situation, etc. Almost all of them where from immigrant families and had difficulty assimilating to the American culture. The main topic of those discussion was the lack of 'hope' in their lives. That became a major theme in my stories for those kids.

Most adults tend to give our sympathy to those kids who are 'abused', neglected, etc. Fine and good to encouragement them, help them in what ways we can.
That said, however, by doing such we neglect those - perhaps like Stephanie - that have stable homes and yearn for decent stories to read.

Believe me, there are many, many, many who have expressed this to me - whether in public, private or home school. When these kids speak up, some adults make a knee-jerk reaction based upon their bad experiences and ridicule the idea of anyone wanting a good clean read. In fact, this thread is about "Clean Reads" and those like Stephanie should feel safe and free to state their opinions.

Shawn wrote: "When I was writing my fantasy stories many of my daughter's friends came over to talk with me about the characters, situation, etc. Almost all of them where from immigrant families and had difficul..."

I don't see where I ridiculed the idea of someone wanting a clean read. I did absolutely let loose on the idea that "there are some things/themes in life that do not belong in a book," which is *not* the same statement as "there are some thing/themes in life that I do not want to read." Yes, Stephanie got to that place eventually, which helped a lot. It's her right to seek out whatever sorts of books she wants to read. It's also why I recommended some "clean reads" that I thought she might like. I stand by what I said: vote with your dollars and, when in doubt, talk with your parents.

Honestly, I would argue that *hope* was what those abused kids I am talking about wanted as well. The idea that there were GLBT kids out there whose parents still loved them. The idea that there were families that looked like theirs and faced some of the same issues. That's not moral/immoral; it's human nature: help me to see someone who looks and/or feels like I do, and let me know that they turn out all right -- which really means, "let me know that *I* will turn out all right."

I just wish all of them had.

Wow Sharon do you write for YA's? Are you that condescending to them in your books?
I totally agree with Shawn that kind of attitude drives me insane!

Stephanie- I also looked at your library and have a few suggestions I too love the Ranger's Apprentice Series have you tried The Bloody Jack by, LA Meyer.

I would also Recommend Shawn's book Allon: Book 1

I too am sometimes surprised at the sexual content in some YA books and I am far from a prude and think its wonderful to hear a young adult saying that they don't like it either!My hats off to you for your opinions and for holding your own in this conversation!

Susie wrote: "Wow Sharon do you write for YA's? Are you that condescending to them in your books?
I totally agree with Shawn that kind of attitude drives me insane!

Stephanie- I also looked at your library a..."

No, Susie, I do not write for YAs; my books are definitely not appropriate for those younger than 18; they are (with only one exception) non-fiction that deals with some mature subject matter. The novel deals with some difficult issues as well, and I would not recommend it for a teen.

I hope that you read through the rest of the thread so that you can see the *why,* because I had to think about it myself.

Immoral is sort of a subjective term. I don't necessarily think sexual content needs to be in YA fiction (there's nothing stopping teens from buying adult books, as far as I recall), but there's nothing about it that's immoral.

What is immoral, to me, is calling girls "slutty" for any reason under any circumstance. Apparently I'm the only one, though.

I'd much prefer to read books that have some sexual content than books that teach that it is immoral or that girls who engage in it are sluts while saying nothing at all about boys. So please don't presume to tell me what "just doesn't belong in books".

Sharon I do understand you were "set off".I also was "set off" by what I felt was an attack on the poor girl for her opinion.We will leave it at that.

I am a librarian in a small rural town and I have some teens that love the insert politcally correct term here books with lots of romance and well sex, and alot that would rather read something without it and it does seem to be getting harder and harder to find books without it.
Its seems like alot of books both Young Adult and honestly Adult too, have a love triangle.Myself and my Teen Advisory Board are so over the love triangle.

Sharon, you said Stephanie is free to 'seek out whatever sort of books she likes the read.' that is the point of what she said and Susie and I concur - those books are getting more and more difficult to find.

This is due to the moral and PC mind-set change of our society over the last few decades. I'm not going to argue the rightness or wrongness, just state the fact that those views have reached down into children's books to the point where almost anything goes. The problem is many kids can't handle it. They don't have the mental and emotional capability of dealing with complex adult issue.

Some here may argue otherwise, but I've seen, heard and read for myself the damaging influence of introducing adult subjects too early for kids. I've spoken to and read the writings of kids in 5th grade and their views of what sex, violence, horror, profanity, etc., would put Steven King and others like him to shame! To see and hear a 5th grader use graphic terms - and correctly- joined with their imagination is unsettling. There is no more innocence in childhood the adult world has so invade and ripped it to shreds.

Adults used to protect kids by being more sensitive and allowing them to grow and mature - feeding adult life troubles in smaller does as needed. Now when a kid speaks up and say "HELP! I don't want this" many adults ridicule that child. (Here, I'm speaking general here since I've seen this before.)

There must be a balance and respect for those who want to remain innocent for as long as they can. Adults can argue immorality, religion, or PC, but kids can't. When overwhelmed, they will act out - whether in actions, dress, speech or writing.

Yes, this is ultimately the parents responsibility, but when parents don't or can't, what other adult will? Sharon, you claimed to listen, but you attacked. More sadly is you continued after learning Stephanie's age. I felt I had to step in. And yes, you rightly backed off to discern why, then returned to explain yourself but you never 'apologized' to Stephanie. Although she apologized to you. And notice she dropped out of this conversation.

Hopefully we can all learn from this to be more respectful even when we hold vastly different views that 'set us off'.

This thread has held my interest for quite some time. There is one word that keeps cropping up that disturbs me, and that is the word "clean". If clean means no sexual content, does that mean that books containing sexual content are "dirty"?

I do not write for children, or for teens. I have a warning on my site advising readers of sexual content, and graphic language. I do not write pornography, I do not consider sex dirty. There are adult situations that are not suitable reading for young readers. However, clean and dirty labels could be damaging to future healthy relationships.

Oracleofdoom, you are not "the only one". I'm with you on your statement, "What is immoral, to me, is calling girls "slutty" for any reason under any circumstance. (and) ...books that teach that it is immoral or that girls who engage in it are sluts while saying nothing at all about boys."

In a nutshell, I'm grateful for our freedom of speech, and for our freedom of the press. I certainly hope that the labels "clean" and "dirty" will vanish from defining our moral standards.
Kathy

Kgcummings wrote: "This thread has held my interest for quite some time. There is one word that keeps cropping up that disturbs me, and that is the word "clean". If clean means no sexual content, does that mean that ..."

The issue raised is dealing with what a young adult - Stephanie - is looking for and not finding in books for her age, a good read without all the sexual and graphic writing found in adult books.

Since you've read the posts, you've seen that most adults here do agree that there a subjects inappropriate for YA and kids. Sad to say, those 'clean' or appropriate books for kids are hard to find. Stephanie bemoaned that fact. Unfortunately, it escalated into an argument.

You may wish for 'clean and dirty' to vanish from our society, however, there is a need for discernment of what is appropriate and inappropriate for kids. You say you do this on your site, which means you follow a set of rules to make that determination. Great! The same is true in the larger sense where kids are concerned some standard must be used for their protection, mental health and well-being.

Stephanie Said..Sorry if I'm breaking any rules but I have a...frustrating qualm with YA authors. How come almost every YA book has immorality in it? Can no one write a clean book? Am I the only one who thinks that half the YA market is full of immorality forcing readers like me to go to childrens books to be able to enjoy a clean book that actually has more plot in it than most YA books?


I don't like the fact that this has become a wording argument.How about we change the wording.

How come almost every YA book has sex in it?Can no one write a book without sex? Am I the only one who thinks that half the YA market is full of sex forcing readers like me to go to childrens books to be able to enjoy a book that actually has more plot than sex in it than most YA books?

Let the converstation continue.

Shawn wrote: And yes, you rightly backed off to discern why, then returned to explain yourself but you never 'apologized' to Stephanie.

I am not going to apologize for being offended at the idea that certain themes do not belong in books. That is censorship. If Stephanie had said "There are certain ideas that I don't like to read," which is what she meant (as we found out 28 posts later) but vastly different from what she said, none of this would have happened.

And yes, I agree with Oracleofdoom and Kgcummings about the "slut" thing. It teaches girls that their bodies are disgusting and bad, and that their feelings are disgusting and bad. There is never any corresponding teaching about boys; it's always about the girls. This kind of misogyny is deeply harmful.

There are thousands and thousands of books out there for young adults that do not contain sexual situations. I listed just a few of them in my rather lengthy post.

Perhaps the idea that there are "no books like that" is part of the problem -- young adults are not taught where to find them.

Which I think also responds to Susie's point: there are plenty of YA books without sex. Like I said, I listed just a sampling, but they are there.

No, you are not the only one Susie. Which is why I have repeatedly said in this thread that I hear from kids, parents, teachers and librarians the same complaint about the sexual and graphic content of books for kids. Be they in public school, private school or home schools. The desire crosses economic and race demographics for good, clean books.

Unfortunately, many authors and publishers are NOT listening to a neglected segment of society who want books without all those subject matters.

The plain and simple fact is NOT EVERYONE wants to read sex, profanity and graphic violence. Their desire and rights should be upheld and respected regardless of differing personal views, beliefs or experience and not attacked or minimized.

Sharon, I'm talking about apologizing for belittling her age and her feelings. She apologized to you for not communicating clearly, which you claim her wording offended you. And repeatedly use that wording as your defense of why you were offended.

Yet, you, an adult, cannot apologize for launching an attack and offending her? Double standard.

Shawn wrote: "Sharon, I'm talking about apologizing for belittling her age and her feelings. She apologized to you for not communicating clearly, which you claim her wording offended you. And repeatedly use that..."

If one comes into an adult space, one will be treated as an adult. I started off dealing with her as though she were an adult (if you go back and read). I don't take morality lectures from kids or teens -- and that was what I got with "there are some things/themes that don't belong in books."

Your concern is that I offended her. I'm sorry she was offended.

I read every post, some twice before interjecting and I'm aware of where and why you took offense. I knew Stephanie's age from the beginning but that doesn't affect how I speak with her where respect is concerned.

I thought you said you deal with kids and listen to them all the time? So how is it you treated Stephanie different than those kids for expressing her feelings? Because you felt she trespassed into an adult world and fumbled over words to express herself?

Age does not minimize one's feelings or opinions. Words wound regardless of age.

Shawn wrote: "I read every post, some twice before interjecting and I'm aware of where and why you took offense. I knew Stephanie's age from the beginning but that doesn't affect how I speak with her where respe..."

"I disagree. It's not an author's job to address those type of situations. It's the parents. There are some things/themes in life that do not belong in a book." -- Stephanie

This is a lecture, Shawn.

Her opinions about literature? I have no problem with them. Each person has his or her own taste.

I accept criticisms from adults, but I do not accept lectures from teens. It is my opinion that when one is in an adult space, one should be prepared to accept criticism from adults in an adult fashion.

Why is Stephanie exempt? Because of her age?

Very well. Stephanie, I am sorry. I approached you as a peer, which I now understand you are not. Kindly accept my apologies, and the offers of at least half a dozen YA novels which are "clean," as per the previous post.

Here are some more:

It's interesting that some are so quick to defend against any attacks on Stephanie's opinions, but are completely silent about anyone who her opinions were an attack against. Apparently judgmental opinions are acceptable, and criticism against them is not. If she is owed an apology, then she also owes one for addressing differing views on sexuality as immoral.