Queereaders discussion

Karl Soehnlein has kindly agreed to be available for questions on The World of Normal Boys.

Please use this thread for your questions to Mr. Soehnlein. He will be available on Friday, August 13 between the hours of 10am - 2pm (Pacific Time) to answer them.

If you are unable to be here at that time, you can post your questions in advance.

Thanks, Nancy for inviting me to Queereaders. Very excited that folks are reading "The World of Normal Boys." I'll be back later to answer questions.

Hello all!

Welcome, Karl! I just want to say that I'm really, really enjoying The World of Normal Boys so far. I've read lots of coming-of-age stories, but none have dredged up as many sweet and painful memories as this one has. You've done an amazing job bringing the 70's to life and creating a character that is so believable and so easy to identify and connect with. In many ways, Robin reminds me of my own younger brother.

Karl, I'm curious if Robin's personality, relationships with family and experiences mirror your own life in any way.

Hello and welcome, Karl! Nancy asked my 1st question. I felt early on that the book had an autobiographical feel.

I finished The World of Normal Boys last nite and have been wondering about the ending, until this morning I discovered there is a sequel! Was that planned from the start? I have just ordered Robin and Rudy and am looking forward to playing with Robin some more :-)

I am wondering what it is like to talk about a book you wrote ~10 years ago. Would you have done anything different, especially having reimagined Robin in a just published novel?

Robin reminded me of John Reid in The Best Little Boy in the World, though Robin took the "Risk" as an adolescent, while John Reid did not. I think Scott was a big reason for this. I was much more the best little boy, never imagining doing anything wrong as a teen, but Robin's thoughts and feelings were so spot on anyway, I wonder if there is something universal going on when someone 1st realizes they are gay. At 65, your book is like a remembrances of things past and speaks strongly to me. Thank you for the memories! If only I had had a Scott in my past. I wonder if Andrew Tobias' book influenced you at all?

Finally for now, I wonder about Scott's dreams and almost feel compelled to reread the novel with them in mind. I feel like I have missed something, not paying closer attention to the dreams thread. Are there hidden treasures to be discovered?

I hope to be here this afternoon, but will depend on my work schedule.

I'm curious if Robin's personality, relationships with family and experiences mirror your own life in any way. ...

Hi Nancy. I'm happy you're enjoying the book so much and that it's bringing up so many memories. I'm always touched when something I've written brings a reader into contact with some deeper feelings or memories in her own life.

I like the way you phrased your question, with the word "mirror." I think Robin is a kind of mirror, but a mirror held at a slant, capturing only certain aspects of my life -- like growing up in the New Jersey suburbs in the late 1970s -- and of my personality -- for example, the feeling of not belonging to the world in the way that "normal" boys do.

He also mirrors the stories of friends, who told me about their early teenage years. The part of Robin willing to take risks and disobey the rules is probably not like me so much, but is more like certain friends of mine.

And then of course certain aspects are purely fictional. That's one of the joys of writing fiction: using the imagination, creating something from nothing but ideas. Robin's family isn't really like my family. My mother was a lot less outspoken and fabulous (and less of a lush) than Dorothy, and my father, perhaps having a little bit in common with Clark, turned out to be a very different kind of man than him. The central plot aspects of the story -- Jackson's accident, and the triangle between Robin, Scott and Todd -- did not happen to me.

I guess in summary there's a sort of emotional truth to Robin's story, but the plot and character development of the novel are made up.

Hi Kernos. Thanks for helping to start this discussion. I'll answer your questions one at a time, though not necessarily in the order you wrote them ;) ....

I am wondering what it is like to talk about a book you wrote ~10 years ago. Would you have done anything different...?

This is a great question. "The World of Normal Boys" was first published in 2000, but it was written even before that, so it's been a part of my life for more like 15 years -- which is something I never foresaw way back when, when I started it. Would I do anything different? I'd love to go back and edit sentences, change a phrase here or there, trim a paragraph... there's no avoiding that feeling of wanting to edit more! But I think the larger elements of the plot and characters I'd leave in place.

There were some scenes I'd cut from the book that I might be tempted to put back in -- more scenes of Robin and Dorothy having one of their "city days." Another example: the World Series party, where Dorothy comes home nearly passed out from drinking, was originally a Halloween party, and I'd had some fun with Dorothy dressed as the wife of Peter Peter Pumpkin Eater [who "had a wife but couldn't keep her":]. I might want to put that back in...

That said...and in answer to another of your questions .... I did write a sequel (called "Robin and Ruby" -- not Rudy!), which takes place 7 years later, so I got to go back and fill in the years of what happened to the MacKenzie family. That was really interesting to do. I hadn't planned it from the start, but some characters never left me, like Ruby, who has a small part to play in "Normal Boys." She always interested me, and I thought she had a story to tell...

I never read "The Best Little Boy in the World," but it sounds from your description like something I should read. A book that was a bigger influence on me was "The Boys on the Rock," by John Fox, which is a really beautifully written coming of age story. ... All these stories with "boy" in the title...there's definitely something universal about the coming out experience, even as times change and generations face different pressures.

Finally.... not sure what you mean by Scott's dreams being a "thread." Do you mean Robin's dreams?

Thanks for all your thoughts and questions, Kernos!

I too am enjoying the book and have about fifty more pages to go. The experiences and situations ring true to me. I did not grow up in the 70's but I can identify with the feelings and the experieces. I grew up in New York City and had a experience similiar to Robin's when he went to Manhattan with Scott and had that encounter with the older guy. His contridictory feelings during scene were very truthful and vividly portrayed.

Robin does remind me a bit of Salinger's characters in "Catcher in the Rye" and "Franny and Zooey." I think you wrote on your website that you were influenced by Salinger. Can you discuss a bit how he influenced you.

Also, in the novel when Scott spends the night with Robin why does he leave the note on the refigerator for the whole family to see? What do you think his motivation was?

Hi Joseph. Thanks for your comments. I appreciate that you noted Robin's "contradictory feelings" during his encounter with Vincent, the older guy in Manhattan. That was a tricky scene to write, because I didn't want it to be all one thing or the other -- all good or all bad -- in terms of what it meant to Robin.

I think you wrote on your website that you were influenced by Salinger. Can you discuss a bit how he influenced you.

I think the biggest influence I can cite from Salinger is the way he digs down into a scene and just stays there. (I'm thinking in particular of his "Nine Stories" and also of "Franny and Zooey," which was a big influence on "Robin and Ruby.") Salinger follows the thoughts, gestures, and speech of his characters so closely, letting the meaning of a scene reveal itself to the reader in an almost moment-to-moment way. The result is that it feels very realistic, but also very sculpted or designed. To me, that's something to aspire to.

Also, in the novel when Scott spends the night with Robin why does he leave the note on the refigerator for the whole family to see? What do you think his motivation was?

I'm always a little reluctant to spell out my reasoning behind what the characters do. It's always more interesting for me to hear the thoughts of readers about what they think! But in the spirit of this forum....here goes:

I see Scott's note as a kind of cry for help, or at least attention. He's in a bad place with his father; he can't really go home after what had happened the night before. He thinks of Robin's family as a more together, stable and safe environment (ironic, since we know how tumultuous things are there). So that note is sort of a way of saying, "I was here. Don't ignore me." Of course, since he's so young, it's a pretty indirect and clumsy way of doing it, almost passive aggressive, since it puts Robin on the spot.

Was that how you saw it, or did you have another interpretation?

Robin gets picked on in school, he doesn't like sports, he's close to his mom, and he has a female best friend.

Do you feel that Robin is representative of gay male teenagers, or would his qualities be considered as stereotypes by some?

Of course, Ruby. I liked her too. She seemed to understand Robin a lot better than his parents—probably not so unusual.

And, of course I meant Robin's dreams. Especially later in the book they become dark and disturbing. My 1st thought was that this was due to his concern/guilt about killing Jackson. But I then wondered if I were missing something.

Thank you for suggesting The Boys on the Rock. I just found a copy!

Nancy,

Well, as they say, god, or the devil, is in the details! I aim in all my writing try to breathe life into the broad outlines by being specific and realistic and believable.

Any list of attributes can flatten a character into a type, but if I'm doing my job -- with memorable imagery and language, suspenseful situations, and believable relationship dynamics -- then Robin and all the other characters will seem like individuals instead of "representations" or "stereotypes."

K

Kernos,

You touched on the key to Robin's dreams: guilt. He was there at the moment of the accident, and it all went by in a blur, and he can't remember what happened exactly but he feels responsible. Everything that follows in the book is related to that traumatic moment. Dreams are a way to give a picture of, or a glimpse into Robin's subconscious -- the things he can't really articulate but which rise up in his sleep to prod at him. ... There's other stuff in there, too, like his emerging sexuality and his feeling of being alienated from his family. It's not literal, more like a mix of all these things.

K

K.M. wrote: "Hi Joseph. Thanks for your comments. I appreciate that you noted Robin's "contradictory feelings" during his encounter with Vincent, the older guy in Manhattan. That was a tricky scene to write, be..."

Yes, I saw it that way. But I also saw it as something hurtful. He's a destructive kid. He wanted to get Robin in trouble; he wanted to hurt him. He has very strong feelings for Robin, but I don't think he knows how - or is able - to show positive, loving emotions. He's a very conflicted, hurt but interesting character.

Nancy wrote: "Robin gets picked on in school, he doesn't like sports, he's close to his mom, and he has a female best friend.

Do you feel that Robin is representative of gay male teenagers, or would his qua..."

I thought that too when I first started to read the book. But in high school I hated sports, I was close to my mom, I always had females as best friends (still do), I loved llistening to and going to Broadway shows. I did all of this before I knew it was the gay stereotype. And all of this is true of my partner also. I think that those are some character traits of some gay males growing up (not all). I found Robin to be believable.

Joseph wrote: "K.M. wrote: "Hi Joseph. Thanks for your comments. I appreciate that you noted Robin's "contradictory feelings" during his encounter with Vincent, the older guy in Manhattan. That was a tricky scene..."

I've always felt protective of Scott, who has probably suffered more than any of the other characters. I'll be curious what you think of Scott when you finish the book.

K.M. wrote: "Joseph wrote: "K.M. wrote: "Hi Joseph. Thanks for your comments. I appreciate that you noted Robin's "contradictory feelings" during his encounter with Vincent, the older guy in Manhattan. That was..."

I'm only just starting to get to know Scott and look forward to seeing him develop. It made me sad that he was so dismissive of his first sexual encounter with Robin. Based on what I see so far (almost halfway through the book), I think Robin will have an easier time of accepting his sexuality.

K.M. wrote: "Joseph wrote: "K.M. wrote: "Hi Joseph. Thanks for your comments. I appreciate that you noted Robin's "contradictory feelings" during his encounter with Vincent, the older guy in Manhattan. That was..."

K.M. wrote: "Joseph wrote: "K.M. wrote: "Hi Joseph. Thanks for your comments. I appreciate that you noted Robin's "contradictory feelings" during his encounter with Vincent, the older guy in Manhattan. That was..."<

I can understand your protectiveness for Scott. I want to protect him too.

K.M. wrote: "I've always felt protective of Scott, who has probably suffered more than any of the other characters. I'll be curious what you think of Scott when you finish the book."

I think Scott is as important to the book as Robin and I have strong feelings for Scott. He brought Robin out and became the temptation that allowed Robin to continue exploring his sexuality, his rebellion and his redemption from Jackson's death. He really drives the 'action'.

He's important to me because, if I had met a Scott, I think it unlikely it would have taken another 20 years for me to come out. It is not good to wait till one's 30's to rebel.

I would really like to know more about what happened to Scott.

I would really like to know more about what happened to Scott.

Kernos -- I'm afraid there's not more to tell about Scott. He doesn't appear in "Robin and Ruby." I think sometimes the person who's an important catalyst for us at an early age fades away into memories as we get older... A long lasting impact, but not a long lasting presence in our lives.

Nancy Wrote: "Robin gets picked on in school, he doesn't like sports, he's close to his mom, and he has a female best friend.

Do you feel that Robin is representative of gay male teenagers, or would his qualities be considered as stereotypes by some?"

Interesting question. Is that a stereotype? I did not recognize those attributes in Robin, except for the mother. I certainly felt alienated from my peers in high school, esp my male peers. My interests were so different.

But, even if he fits said stereotype, many do, and their stories need telling. I think Karl did a great job of adding complexity to Robin that supersedes a simple stereotype.

Karl wrote: "I'm afraid there's not more to tell about Scott. He doesn't appear in "Robin and Ruby." I think sometimes the person who's an important catalyst for us at an early age fades away into memories as we get older... A long lasting impact, but not a long lasting presence in our lives."

Oh! Indeed. Though, I often wonder what happened to Jimmy, who taught me how ;-) I would not expect Scott to appear in a sequel. I feel sort of sad about it though.

OTOH, I see Todd getting married, having a brood and then either playing around with guys on the side, or getting divorced and coming out. In either case, I think he'll be an addict of some sort unless he deals honestly with his feelings. He is 17, not 13.

Kernos wrote: "...But, even if he fits said stereotype, many do, and their stories need telling. I think Karl did a great job of adding complexity to Robin that supersedes a simple stereotype..."

Oh, I totally agree. Robin is so well drawn and complex that I want to hug him and protect him and kick the shit out of people like Larry and Danniman and others who tormented him. I don't find him to be a stereotype at all. It's just that I've known gay men who grew up differently from Robin, who actually love sports, hate the theatre, have no clue about accessorizing and are not especially close to their mothers.

Even though Robin is gay, his feelings and many of his experiences are truly universal.

Kernos, You'll get a little glimpse into Todd's future in "Robin and Ruby." (But you'll have to get pretty far to the end of the book before he shows up...)

Nancy, One of the great things about an expanding gay literature is that there's room for many types of stories, about many types of gay people. I know lots of gay men different than Robin, and than me. Thank goodness we're not all the same!

I think Todd's behavior is intersting.He makes me want to keep reading the novel. He likes to suck off 13 year old boys but he doesn't want them to touch him. You created a different kind of characte with him.

K.M. wrote: "Thank goodness we're not all the same!..."

The world would definitely be a boring place. :)

Joseph,

When I first wrote Todd's character I was worried -- because of exactly the behavior you describe -- that he didn't seem believable. Then a friend of mine read an early draft of the scene on the golf course, and he said, that was exactly what happened with me. He had a sexual relationship at age 13 with a high school guy -- the guy wasn't a stoner but a jock -- who only wanted to suck him off and didn't want to be touched in return. And of course didn't want to talk about it...

Art imitates life imitates art.

Hey everyone, really nice chatting with you all and answering your questions. I'm getting away from my computer now, but I'll try to check back from time to time on this thread and answer questions as they come in.

Thanks again, Nancy, for the invitation.

K

You did a very good job with his character. (In fact you did a good job with all the characters.I am really enjoying the book.) It would interesting to know what happens to him. Is he in your latest novel?

Thanks for sharing with us.

Karl, thank you so much for taking the time to answer our questions. It's a pleasure having you here!