Beyond Reality discussion

These three chapters start the convergency for this novel, and the set up for the finale - with a few tongue in cheek pokes at town governance along the way.

THERE BE SPOILERS, HERE!
Do remember to uncheck your update feed box to hide your post from friends who may not have read up to this point.

For past readers who may not have the book in hand, this section covers (in vague terms) the arrival at Etarra through the flight to Strakewood.

I had a huge reaction reading this section and made quite a few little notes along the way. I will get the book out and go back through them to make some more detailed comments soon.

I just wanted to say that I am sure this is where I stopped reading the first time I tried to read the book. I couldn't take the shift in the brothers from starting to work together to irrational induced hatred.

This time, enough years have passed that while that remains hard to read, I can see the storytelling craft that has gone into that and the epic, vivid, almost aching tragedy of it (and all the consequent tragedy I expect to come) and I can read it, not in a state of depression as before but in appreciation of the majesty of the story I'm being told.

Ah, what some time and maturity will do for you.

(And having put the word depression in there just as a matter of speaking, I realise I probably first tried to read this close to when I was dealing with the early stages of what has now been diagnosed as clinic depression. Hmm, I wonder if there was a connection there too, as I couldn't see past the immediate situation to the power of the story.)

Kerry wrote: "I had a huge reaction reading this section and made quite a few little notes along the way. I will get the book out and go back through them to make some more detailed comments soon.

I just want..."

Kerry - that is interesting, and thanks for sharing your views into your own personal experience.

Whether depression played a part in your reaction or not, I have (many times) received notes from readers who started this tale, gave it over/quit, only to pick it up five years later, and it was like the light switched on. The timing was right, they had matured, and the story was ready for them.

First, thank you for your courage for trying again. Certainly your views may be of value to others, and I appreciate the insights you have written.

Let me suggest that, in the long course (in the full epic tale, unfolded and complete) your persistence will be rewarded.

I was very upset the first time I read it. Second time found myself dragging and putting it down. Conversely, I think it was here that I really fell in love with the story. And @Kerry, if you were depressed when you read it, no wonder you put it down! It's truly tragic.

Sandra, I agree with you. While hard to read, this is the part that makes you fall in love with the story - or give up on it.

So much has been set up, so beautifully (just read the scene with Elaira and Traithe in ch 16 and it's the same) that now I need to watch it unfold, through the tragedy to the end. Also, having been able to discuss the book with Janny, I trust her to give me the appropriate payout at the end.

Okay, some random notes from these chapters:

I thought the way Asandir made the circlet for Arithon from the dirt was such a cool idea, and such a clever way to tie the sovereign with the land.

Diegan commenting on Lysaer to Talith: Too bad he wasn't born Townsman. We could've used one with his touch to restore our relations with the farmers.

Is this a case of famous last words? Seems very ironic at least, considering what is coming up.

I seemed to me in this section that Lysaer has been quite protected/naive/I'm not exactly sure what. But he seems to see things in fairly absolute terms. On p.500 he reflects "In this world of divisive cultures and shattered loyalties, no single foundation of righteousness existed."

Is he only figuring out NOW, that life is complicated?

I thought it was interesting that Elaira described the s'Ffalenn gift as FORCED empathy. To me, that seems to suggest a whole different course to what a person might do with embraced empathy.

I loved the description of Kharadmon caring for and begging forgiveness from the plants and creatures that suffered in the storm he moved.

I found it both frustrating and tragic that just as we started to see Lysaer really THINKING about things and seeing the complications, it all got drowned by the Curse. To see that potential starting to be realised and then dashed was tragic. I hope (and dare I trust) we will finally see that potential realised, because there's a lot there.

Previously, and certainly as far as I read the first time, I had clearly imprinted on Arithon and I felt desperately sorry for him and just annoyed by Lysaer. Now, I feel so much for both of them, but maybe even more for Lysaer, as that potential I mentioned above is totally drowned. It isn't just tragic, it's SAD.

Ouch. Misunderstandings can cause so much tragedy. As the reader, I am (mostly) getting a bigger picture than the characters (Janny's cunning POV tricks aside to keep pertinent information from us until she's ready to reveal it) so to see a character with less infomation jump to the wrong conclusion and run with it is painful. (Sure, without it there would be less of a story so I'll live with it, but it hurts to read.)

Oh, reading the enactment of the Curse, well it HURTS.

So, I assume all this means that Dakar's Black Rose prophecy remains in limbo as Arithon has not yet (and won't be soon) crowned in Rathain? This also made me wonder (and don't laugh if I'm totally wrong) if this relates to the red rose on the cover than Janny was coy about. Is this a bloody rose as the coming of the Black Rose has been (hopefully only) delayed by bloodshed?

In the aftermath, neither Lysaer (especially Lysaer) or Arithon is truly who they were before. Will they ever be able to get at least some of who they were before back. I know circumstances change us all, but this is so drastic (and forced on them from outside) and has changed them both pretty fundamentally (or so it seems at first reading). Will they be able to claim their own true selves back?

I had (naively I suspect) assumed from the title that this book would be about defeating the Mistwraith and the others books about, I don't know, something else. I see now that lots of things are being set up for long term resolution and the defeat of the Mistwraith is only one of these. The MW hasn't yet been defeated, only contained, and it can't be defeated until Lysaer and Arithon can work together again. Something that is surely going to be a long time coming.

Is the Name of the Mistwraith going to be important to fully defeating it?

So many things have been set in motion that it seems will have to tie together to reach a conclusion - the Mistwraith, the Curse, the uniting of the lands again, the Paravians, the Fellowship of Seven restored and probably more that I missed or hasn't been revealed yet. I don't know why I'd seen this book as more of a standalone (perhaps because it isn't part of a multi-volume sub-arc) but clearly I was totally wrong.

I didn't like the way Lysaer lied about his mother (as an abducted rape victim rather than a woman who made her own choice) but I suspect he's going to totally believe his own lie pretty soon.

There were definitely disturbing (to me) religious overtones to Lysaer in the "Muster" subchapter. Is this a beginning to the religion mentioned in the prologue?

After seeming how Lysaer reacted to the Curse, it surprised me that Arithon knew it was there and was fighting it. I suppose it shouldn't have since they are totally different people (and Arithon is mage trained) but it did. I can't decide which is more tragic, Lysaer overcome and not knowing, or Arithon knowing and fighting.

Does Lysaer really believe the things he's telling people about Arithon? Because they're not what we've seen so far in the book. That way lies fanaticism.

The Koriani are scary. Oh and look, someone else who is centuries old. They just keep popping up.

There's an awful lot of people using other people for their own ends (good, bad, necessary, unnecessary) in this book. It's kind of depressing.

On p.624 came the first word I didn't know that I couldn't figure out from context and had to look up in the dictionary. For the record, it was "pregnable" which, now I know it's meaning, I realise I should have been able to figure out because I know its opposite.

I loved the light touch in the triad at the end of chapter 15 where Asandir reclaims the emerald Arithon gave to the caravaneer. I needed a smile after all that tragedy. Brilliant, high tragedy, but hard work all the same.

And if you're wondering why I have so many comments to offer, this is the current state of my copy of the book.

Kerry, that's priceless! You really HAVE gleaned a lot from the book this time!

I've been trying to decide exactly when and why I got hooked at this point in the book and fell madly in love. I'll have to get back to you. :) But all the things you listed above are a good part of it.

I love that picture! Some great insights there too, Kerry.

I've been pretty quiet on this discussion lately, but that's only because I've read way on beyond this and on into Warhost. But I agree, good notes Kerry. Makes me wish I had taken time to do the same when I read it.. But who knows, maybe I'll do that if I ever do a second read through :)

Kerry, I think any author would LOVE to see a picture like that. You're going to love the rest of this series.

Stefan, yes, I think I am. My bank balance though, is a little concerned. :-)

:D

Kerry wrote: "Okay, some random notes from these chapters:

I thought the way Asandir made the circlet for Arithon from the dirt was such a cool idea, and such a clever way to tie the sovereign with the land.
..."

Wow, Kerry - :)

You certainly are giving this book the in depth read it was crafted for - and your notes show that you are looking at all the right issues.

YES it is about much more then defeating a Mistwraith.

I LOVED THAT PICTURE - welcome to my brain. That's what it would look like, surely, if you could peek inside. Amazing job - people are going to ask you (and Jon) for your cliff notes.

Maybe me too (Hey, Kerry, I know this occurred in this book, that chpt. - which paragraph?) ;O

The rose: not yet.

Is this book a standalone - not so far as the big issues, the series proper IS the big story. But you will at least have a solid, sound finale and pause point, with a the firm feel of a denouement. Only a week off, for the finale discussion.

Maybe me too (Hey, Kerry, I know this occurred in this book, that chpt. - which paragraph?) ;

Janny, if you can just clarify which paragraph you're wanting me to find, I'll track it down for you thanks to the post it notes.

By the way, the cat keeps trying to eat my post it notes - I'm having to be very protective of my book. :)

Kerry wrote: "Maybe me too (Hey, Kerry, I know this occurred in this book, that chpt. - which paragraph?) ;

Janny, if you can just clarify which paragraph you're wanting me to find, I'll track it down for you..."

Right now, I'm well set, but thanks for the offer, in case! I am sure there are a few of the speedier readers who may ask you about stuff they passed, going ninety.

"Stuff they passed, going ninety." LOL - righto, Janny. My speed first time through. Second time, going about twenty, except in Warhosts, where I once again got caught up in the story, :).

Well, we are going to have a trivia contest, so tune in to the little stuff! (there shall be prizes)

Janny wrote: "Well, we are going to have a trivia contest, so tune in to the little stuff! (there shall be prizes)"

Woot! I love trivia (and prizes).

Kerry wrote: "...I didn't like the way Lysaer lied about his mother (as an abducted rape victim rather than a woman who made her own choice) but I suspect he's going to totally believe his own lie pretty soon.
..."

That had had jumped out at me, too, this last reading. I have a sister (one of many siblings) who has issues with compulsive lying. She told me once that the first little "twist" in the truth leads to more and more until she couldn't even really say what the truth was anymore. Her whole reality would change (not necessarily to reflect the lie, but as a side affect of the lie). Pretty sad.

Oh, and loved that you posted a picture of your book!

I have read with interest the comments of readers who found the tragic aspect of this part of the book very hard to take. Since CotMW was first published in the early 1990s, there has been a seminal shift in fantasy books generally. Gone are the D&D-type or Tolkien rip-off books of the 1970s and 1980s, and you have writers like George R.R. Martin, Steven Erikson, Paul Kearney, Glenn Cook, Scott Lynch, Joe Abercrombie, etc. and so on.

What I am getting at, is that the happy ending in a fantasy story, which you expect in a David Eddings novel, doesn't happen anymore in grown-up, adult-level fantasy that you see from the authors I listed. I am wondering about other readers thoughts on this, because this is a tough part of the novel to deal with (I felt like Janny had punched me in the stomach the first time I read it, hoping for a rescue of some kind, then remembering "cursed to enmity for 500 years"). Back in 1992, when I first read this book (I think), I was devastated, particularly after reading happy-ending fantasies for my whole life.

Yes, we'd seen tragedy in fantasy before (LotR is very tragic in a number of ways, for instance, with the passing of the Third Age), but not this kind of outright disaster in the story. Since CotMW, we have seen George R.R. Martin's A Game of Thrones, and what happens to a very honourable and likeable character on page 727 thereof (I remember screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOO!" in the middle of a crowded food court at lunch time), and then how the rest A Song of Ice and Fire has gone to date. We have Erikson's Memories of Ice, and its tragic ending (I'm trying to do this without spoiling books). There are lots of other, recent examples.

My question is, was CotMW ahead of its time, in bringing a tragic story in a fantasy context? This is for the readers, not Janny, but I would of course welcome her input.

Clansman - those are very good points and I probably agree with you. The thing is, personally, I choose not to read those books. I understand them to be dark, grey and grim - and while I appreciate they are probably very good books - I don't want to read them.

I suspect there is no way I would have decided to read this series on my own. In all honesty, it scared me.

It is only the fact that, having read Janny's posts on the group and to me in private, plus having read To Ride Hell's Chasm (a book that didn't work for me personally but one I can appreciate is a good book), I trust her enough to give me a pay-off I will be happy with and that has encouraged me to read the books now. (Plus having the author and the rest of the group to help me through if I falter.)

It's hard to explain, because it is so much about personal reading taste and feeling, but basically I don't want to read those gritty "adult" books. I don't want to read David Eddings either - I've grown way past that - but there are enough authors that fit me and what I want these days, that I don't feel the need to read authors like Martin, Erikson and Abercrombie which don't sound like my thing at all.

Of course, this is simply my personal reaction - I'm not saying you're wrong at all; I think you may well be right - but this is something of why I'm reacting to the book the way I am.

So, was she ahead of her time? I don't know. Maybe. Certainly against the trend of the time.

Interesting conversation, guys. I'm not qualified to talk about Erikson or Tolkien, never having read either. I have read Martin's Song of Fire and Ice or at least the first two books. In general I don't care for really dark dystopian stories with characters with few redeeming qualities. And I'm relatively new to fantasy literature in general so don't know if Janny is ahead of her time. I tend to think she is tho.

In spite of the dark and tragic incidents in this series, I don't view it as being in the same category as the others. The promise of redemption is always there and the glory of the Paravians and the broader harmonies of Athera and later of Arithon as he comes into the fullness of his skills with music and the lyranthe give me enough hope of the peace and harmony waiting in the wings that I keep reading and have faith in Janny as a writer to make it all worth while in the end. Even so Clansman, I have had those moments of crying "No!" during my reading. Still I have come to love the world of Athera and am there cheering for balance, compassion, and justice and dying for the next book to come out.

...we have seen George R.R. Martin's A Game of Thrones, and what happens to a very honourable and likeable character on page 727 thereof (I remember screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOO!" in the middle of a crowded food court at lunch time)...

I've done that before. I just wrote a blog post about reactions to books :)

I have to be honest, I am still hoping for some form of...peace at the end of The War of Light and Shadow (TWOLAS). I don't think it's possible not too - I'm human after all. I don't however, expect to get there without a lot of pain and heartache (for both the characters and me).

My copy of TCOTM has a copyright year of 1994, so I must have read it shortly after it was published here. I can't remember thinking that I hated the tragic nature...but then I was a more detached person back then so I don't know if it penetrated as it should have. I do, however, remember thinking that TCOTM was so different from anything I had read before...and that I had to hope more because I wasn't certain of the outcome.

And I think that lack of certainity it what draws me to tragic fantasy books (although I have to say there is a point of no return and I think George RR Martin has gone past it for me), because your hope has to stay alight for that much longer and under more trying circumstances. But I have to spread them out - sneak in lighter books in between :)

I discovered and devoured Sarah Monette's Doctrine of Labyrinths series (which is now one of my all-time favourites) last year. They put me through the wringer, but...the pay off was definitely worth it. I think there needs to be some pay of...and I have faith that there will be one with TWOLAS. Maybe not the one I am expecting (To Ride Hell's Chasm taught me that :) though.

Hope that all made sense :0

Orannia, you made perfect sense to me.

Seeing Kerry's and Sandra's responses, it is obvious to me that I chose some bad examples, and did not explain my self very well at all. Janny is much more balanced (light and dark, love and hate) than Martin (hate, blood, violence) or Abercrombie (nihilism), and I am not trying to set up a comparison at all. My judgment on Erikson is still pending, as I have not finished his series, but it is considerably darker than WoLaS. I should have chosen the endings of Guy Gavriel Kay's Tigana, or The Lions of Al-Rassan, but they didn't seem to have the same level of tragedy that Janny did at the end of Curse, and they are stand-alone novels. I didn't want to get this side-tracked into a comparison discussion.

My only real point is this book preceded the popularity of the dark, dystopian medieval fantasy (Martin published A Game of Thrones in 1997) by several years, and Janny made the book fantasy so real by eschewing the fantasy cliche of a super, happy ending. A resting place resolution, yes, but not a happy ending. I think that broke the mold (mould?) of modern fantasy, because I sure did not expect what Janny delivered when I read the augury the first time, or the next chapters. It is in this part of the book when you realize that Janny is going for something a lot deeper than an entertaining read, but she is trying to tell us something, to make us look at things differently, to change us a bit...that this series is an important work of literature.

It was the comments of others above that struck me, about how this section slammed them, and almost or did in fact make them put down the book for a while, and which made me remember my reaction when I first read it. It is wrenching, to be sure, as it must be. What I am wondering, is do you think that we are, as readers in general, more ready for this kind of thing in fantasy, which in earlier, happier days (i.e. when I was 14 and reading Pawn of Prophecy), was mere escapism? Did you find this book preceded the genre generally by telling an adult-level (not x-rated, but intellectually adult) story?

Okay, I think I see more what you're saying now, Clansman.

And so yes, I do agree with you. I can't reread Eddings now (as an example) as much as I loved them as a young teenager, because there is no substance to them.

This book has substance and more substance and then even more under that.

But (since you say you were 14 when you were reading Pawn of Prophecy and I was about the same) is this because the type of books that are out there have matured or because we ourselves have matured - or maybe both. I don't think I could have read COTMW at 14 at all, let alone understood it.

I find Janny's books to be kind of like opera. The voices soar and take you away at some of the most tragic moments of the story. The combination of the story itself and the telling of it and the power of that telling can carry me away just as that majestic voice can take me away even as the story crashes into tragedy. (I think I'm drifting off topic now, but I'm trying to explain why the books, for all the tragedy of them, uplift me as a reader rather than drag me down.)

Janny is certainly playing with the tropes and turning them upside down and I love that. I have some comments on that scribbled on my post it notes for the last three chapters and will try to post coherently about that when the last three-chapter topic goes up.

As for whether this book preceded the genre, it's hard to say. It feels like there were a lot less books to sort through when it first came out (or maybe that's just the lack of the internet for bringing them to my attention). What I'm stumbling about trying to say is that I wonder if books like this one where out there and I never saw them because they weren't something I was in a place to read, or if the books weren't there and this book was the start of something new. I don't know.

P.S. I meant to say, in my rambling about the maturity of the reader vs the availability of kinds of books...

But when my son (now 6) is 14, I'll be steering him towards the Eddings on my bookcase before the Wurts, because those books will suit him better then. He can move on to the Wurts when he's older because he'll get more out of them at that point.

As I said before, Clansman, I'm not qualified to speak to whether Janny was ahead of her time as I didn't really start reading Fantasy until recently.

I can say, as a mature reader, I enjoy books that do not flinch away from tragedy and that is something that Wurts definitely does not do. Almost anyone who has reached a certain age has had to deal with personal tragedy and I think is able to spot false notes in a heartbeat. So while this is 'fantasy' it is psychologically authentic and thus is 'real' on an emotional level.

And while the battle at Tal Quorin is gut wrenching, bloody, and excruciating, it is what Arithon specifically brings out of it that makes it bearable. It is also the beginning of what will be a tragic journey of self betrayal for Lysaer. And it is what made me - maybe perversely, I don't know - fall in love with the book.

PS - the only ones of the other books you mention that I have read are the first two Martin books and at the end of #2, I wasn't sure I would continue, as it seemed to be an unending chronicle of brutality and loss without much in the way of hope. Ahead of her time? Perhaps 'unique' would be a better way to put it for me, as we seem to have either cotton candy or blood and guts as choices in fantasy reading, or so it seems at times.

Sandra and Kerry, your reactions/thoughts are right where mine are.

Kerry, there is no way I would steer my kids towards Janny's books until they were older, unless they were very mature readers for their age (and it is too early to tell right now). Eddings is perfect for the early teens, but WoLaS would be over their heads. The other titles I mentioned above would be right out for content reasons.

There is more than cotton candy or blood and guts, though. Guy Gavriel Kay and Carol Berg are two among many others. And then there is "blood and guts" that is done well, with balance, such as Janny does in this book (albeit, it does not dominate the story, only a small part of it). There were, after all, a lot of Tal Quorins in human history, from whence fantasy draws most of its background. There are the military fantasists, such as Paul Kearney, who make the story very real (almost historical fantasy, like Kay) and who don't shy away from the nastier bits of human activity, but who don't ignore the wonderful stuff either.

Anyway, it is here, at this point in the book, that I realize that everything that I have read so far is so much more than a detailed story and a creation of atmosphere. As you said Kerry, it is substance, more substance, and still more under that. I've read the book multiple times, and still I discover new depths each time.

Well, of course there is more. I have read Kay and love his stuff and also Carol Berg! Her Flesh and Spirit/Breath and Bone duet are fantastic. There are many other choices. I was exaggerating to make a point. But for extremely well written, heart stopping and inspiring stories, Janny is rare. I'll have to look up Paul Kearney.

Nice conversation going here.

Most of my response will be in the Finale chapters thread (to be posted today).

A few short notes: Kay and and this series were pretty much contemporary. I would add Barbara Hambly to that list. Alongside Berg, I'd put Jennifer Roberson's Caravans duology. Sarah Zettel's Isavolta books. C. J. Cherryh's Fortress in the Eye of Time and sequels. There are books that balance the light and the dark - they are harder to find.

It might be noted that this series, and particularly Mistwraith was a REBELLION on my part - against the concept that 'war makes right' and solves the problems of the world. An event occurred that upset my world and caused me to see in a different light. If I have not posted that inspirational moment here, say so, I'll repeat it. But when I sat down to write this, the whole concept of the Great War Throws Down the Dark, and the glorification of the heroic epic - made me sick. Fantasy as a genre had the blackest pot in the literary kitchen.

I decided to change that. Period. so YES. This book has wrenching scenes. It does not glorify brutality - if you weep, as you read on, if you flinch with shock, you are MEANT TO.

The ending is NOT without hope. But the beauty of the solution, quite plainly, will not arise out of strife and bloodshed.

And on that point, the series will deliver.

I am slow to this conversation too. (I have been busy and wasn't caught up until now.)

I think Janny was ahead of her time. There has definitely been a shift in the fantasy genre. Authors are trying to explore new ideas, fresh territory and in doing so have turned to the grittier, more realistic side of things. I have been reading fantasy my whole life. I was drawn to it from an early age. There is a lot of the good triumph over evil stories and everything is happily tied up in the end. They have their place in the written world.

Janny has deepened the fantasy world where the reader can broaden their perspective and change thier outlook both in the fictional world and also in our own reality. There is truly a great depth to her series that I haven't seen in earlier works.

I would like to say that Lord of the Rings does this too. It is an earlier work, but it has a lot of depth to it. Tolkien was exemplfying different traits, reasons and justifications for action. He has a lot of warfare and I don't think his purpose was showing the terrible and unnecessary consequeces of war like Janny initial reaction was. I know a lot of people who have a hard time reading LotR, partly because of his style and partly because of the content. Reading Janny's books gives me the similar thought and feelings that I have when reading LotR. I was trying to explain her series to my mom the other day, and that's what I thought of. It's very bittersweet. I would love to see redemtion for both Lysaer and Arithon. Even though they have this terrible conflict going on, I like and care for both characters. I don't often feel so strongly about the different players in novels.

I didn't discover Janny until joining Goodreads and the different groups where she is very active. I have read a lot of the lighter works, and enjoyed them. After reading WoLaS, I may not be able to return to those and enjoy them as much. They'll seem very simple and too straightforward.

One thing I can say for sure, it that Janny's works have definitely earned a favorite spot on my book shelf and I will recommend them to anyone who is ready to take a journey in a world that will change their perspective of our own world.

Amelia wrote: "I am slow to this conversation too. (I have been busy and wasn't caught up until now.)

I think Janny was ahead of her time. There has definitely been a shift in the fantasy genre. Authors a..."

Amelia - and all of you - thanks.

As you all know, this series underwent an 'eclipse' period - where it had to go out of print after a cascading set of corporate mergers. I had to wait out the period while the rights reverted to redo a new deal with HarperCollins London (which published the story all along) to get it back into N. America.

I had never imagined 'ahead of its time' - but if that is the case, then the reappearance now is possibly a good moment.

It is now out there for readers to discover, and what a lovely thing, if you here at GoodReads are the start of that very momentum.

I realize this story is not for everyone, therefore I am extremely grateful for any help recommending it to others. So, thank you!

As for the story - read on ;).
I don't ever write the same ending, twice, so if you have read my other stuff, you won't guess in advance. In this case, do trust the author. :)

My notes after these three chapters:

Well, I certainly haven’t read these as carefully as the earlier chapters, as the “But I have to know what happens next!” demon has disrupted my efforts to slow down and think :) You weren’t kidding when you told us the pace of the story picked up later in the book, Janny!
A few thoughts that I did stop and jot down:

I wonder if part of the reason Lysaer was so vulnerable to Desh’thiere is that his inborn sense of justice renders him incapable of accepting the lesser of two evils… he can’t follow a course that wouldn’t be just, even if the other option is even worse.

It’s sad seeing Arithon so unhappy. I can really empathize with him as a musician myself – it’s not my main occupation, but I do sing with a semi-professional a cappella jazz group and I could never, ever give up music and stay sane. Fate was certainly cruel to him that Halliron happened to be with the clans when he found his way there – I’m hoping that he can get at least a little bit of joy out of Halliron’s presence, even though he’s bound himself to a cause that will leave him no time for bardic training.

Verrrry interesting that the Fellowship let slip something about Sethvir’s “mortal name”. Looking forward to learning more about that.

The situation that’s building is so complex, I can see why it’s going to take 11(?) books to resolve!

Shel wrote: "My notes after these three chapters:

Well, I certainly haven’t read these as carefully as the earlier chapters, as the “But I have to know what happens next!” demon has disrupted my efforts to slo..."

The finale chapters thread is already posted, so it will be delightful fun to watch your response when you get there!

Hope you had a lovely trip - I cannot imagine better than reading Dunnett in Europe! Wow!

You may be interested to note that Ithamon was inspired (a bit) by Edinburgh Castle in Scotland - the citadel on the rock was incredible and it stuck in my imagination, quite obviously!

Oh yes, reading Dunnett in Europe was amazing. Especially all the talk of Venice, while I was sitting at a cafe on the grand canal sipping tea and waiting for my husband to emerge from a museum I wasn't interested in :)

Janny wrote: "I LOVED THAT PICTURE - welcome to my brain. That's what it would look like, surely, if you could peek inside. Amazing job - people are going to ask you (and Jon) for your cliff notes."

I caved in to necessity today and broke out my post-it notes. Not quite as colorful as Kerry, but at least I can find the PoVs I'm looking for quickly. :) I also have three bookmarks in use among all the sticky notes.

And earlier this week, I decided I needed to improve my penmanship. I went to transcribe my notes (from several days ago) and couldn't read them.

Jon wrote: "Janny wrote: "I LOVED THAT PICTURE - welcome to my brain. That's what it would look like, surely, if you could peek inside. Amazing job - people are going to ask you (and Jon) for your cliff notes...."

Makes two of us (improving the penmanship) - grin.

Are you going to photograph your book, too?

Janny wrote: "Are you going to photograph your book, too? "

Maybe at lunch today. It's supposed to be nice outside about that time and my cellphone camera doesn't have a flash.

Field trip!

Decided to clean my work area and take a couple of pictures there:

http://twitpic.com/2inygm

http://twitpic.com/2inydb

Happy Friday!

Jon

Jon wrote: "Decided to clean my work area and take a couple of pictures there:

http://twitpic.com/2inygm

http://twitpic.com/2inydb

Happy Friday!

Jon"

I noticed you had a calender of Leipzig on your desk. Have you been there? Great city. I miss Germany.

Amelia wrote: "I noticed you had a calender of Leipzig on your desk. Have you been there? Great city. I miss Germany. "

Sourvenir from my daughter's study abroad in June 2010. :) She's the one in the photo to the right of the calendar.

Jon wrote: "Amelia wrote: "I noticed you had a calender of Leipzig on your desk. Have you been there? Great city. I miss Germany. "

Sourvenir from my daughter's study abroad in June 2010. :) She's the one i..."

Your daughter is lucky to have studied in Germany. It would be fun. I haven't been there for a while. I lived there for about a year and a half. Not in Leipzig though. I was mostly in Weimar.

Amelia wrote: "I was mostly in Weimar. "

If I remember correctly, that's Wagner's hometown, right? Trust me, as a student of German opera, my daughter would have preferred to be wherever Wagner resides. Of course, she loves Bach too, and got immersed in him while in Leipzig.

Jon wrote: "Amelia wrote: "I was mostly in Weimar. "

If I remember correctly, that's Wagner's hometown, right? Trust me, as a student of German opera, my daughter would have preferred to be wherever Wagner r..."

I don't remember too much of Wagner there. It doesn't mean he wasn't there though. It was and still is, a big cultural and artistic center. It was really big on Goethe and Schiller. I believe Bach, and Liszt may have spent time there too.

Sorry about the off topic discussion. To bring it back, Wars of Light and Shawdow is an awesome story and these chapters are really pivotal in setting up a lot of motivations, and effects in this as well as later books.

Yes, I apologize for being tangential. :)

No prob for me! I got a giggle out of it and enjoyed eavesdropping on your conversation.

Jon wrote: "Decided to clean my work area and take a couple of pictures there:

http://twitpic.com/2inygm

http://twitpic.com/2inydb

Happy Friday!

Jon"

:) - guess that's hooked.
Any progress on the trivia?

Janny wrote: "Any progress on..."

Yes, I've just got 1/3 of one question and the Tolkien reference left to find.

Jon wrote: "Janny wrote: "Any progress on..."

Yes, I've just got 1/3 of one question and the Tolkien reference left to find."

Definitely that is the toughest of all...it is not a major moment, just an associative glimpse.