Beyond Reality discussion

Welcome to the start of the discussion for Warhost of Vastmark, beginning with the first three chapter sets.

This is the finale of ARC II - which means - hang on to your socks, because all that has been laid down in the volumes is about to converge to a major climax that will move all the markers. In fact written as Part II of Ships, this book brings everything to a head, and leads the characters over the precipice of change.

New readers - there will be spoilers here - anyone wishing to begin with Volume I, those threads are all still present, and those discussions are still live if you wish to start in.

Today would normally be the moment to start the next section for chapter sets IV through VI.

Given that no one's posted (though I know there are readers through this section) - a quick query: is the book moving so fast you are ready for the next three sets, or are you wanting that 'week's pause' to catch up earlier on?

The action scenes in this section (at the shipyard's aftermath) are pretty straightforward, though I wondered if anyone had questions or comments on Kharadmon's discoveries at Marak.

Anyway, check in and let me know if you wish the next topic started pronto.

I would love to comment on these sections, but my book is at home, so I cannot (intelligently) until tonight. Will you hold a day before going on?

I do have a question about the battle with the wraiths. It may be obvious to most, and I am missing something, but: what about the pebble that is shattered on the ground? Sethvir had split his consciousness and fused part in each pebble. Did I misunderstand and it is that each pebble had the same consciousness that was split from Sethvir's physical body (and not split so that a portion went into one pebble and a portion to the other)?


The discoveries at Marak: wow! It's like all the machine-turning-on-the-master stories, only better. I had never considered a science-gone-wrong situation, simply because of the form of the Mistwraith.

Oh, and you are so cruel, Janny (big smile while I say that)! Jilieth refuses help; she choses to die. That about ripped me in half. Great twist, though. I certainly expected her to survive.

Mawgojzeta wrote: "I do have a question about the battle with the wraiths. It may be obvious to most, and I am missing something, but: what about the pebble that is shattered on the ground? Sethvir had split his c..."

How did this work?

Sethvir infused his spirit into one river stone, with an anchor link tied to the second. Then he threw the stone with his essence and shattered it, letting his spirit split with the pieces. The wraiths, disembodied, moved to gather those bits up.

When all the wraiths had engaged, each with some pieces, but none with all of them, Sethvir invoked the anchor to the second pebble, which had been tossed in the flask. He PULLED HIMSELF, whole, into that second stone, and drew ALL of the attached wraiths with him.

His Fellowship colleagues sealed the flask: which now held: all the wraiths, and all of his spirit, infused into that bit of river stone.

Which contained the wraiths with him and bought the TIME to separate one from the other. At risk of the chance Sethvir could not be pulled separate; at risk of the chance that the wraiths could not be identified and tagged; at risk of the fact his colleagues would mis-lable any one fragment of his identity.

Jilieth: we all have our self destructive streaks. People die of such wilful twists in their character all the time....here the story could not flinch in the face the fact children possess such impulses, too.

No event (particularly no DIFFICULT) event, is ever gratuitous in this series. There will come, no one, but several fulcrum moments, where Jilieth's choice impacts the other characters. Her legacy will surface in other scenes, and impel choices in subsequent volumes. Her legacy will be felt, and catalyze changes and consequence for others as the story unfolds.

Thank you, Janny. That portion of the battle makes far more sense to me now. I will enjoy re-reading it tonight with a clear vision of what is going on with the pebbles.

I ripped through these three chapters over the long weekend. My husband laughed at me because I had my absorbed intense reading I need to know what happens next NOW expression on, four pages into the book...the action in this one certainly starts off with a bang right away! I know it's because it's really just the second half of the one book you meant Ships and Warhost to be.

I am fascinated that Dakar has managed to twist his glimpse into Arithon's true self into yet another piece of evidence of his supposed deceit. Talk about self-deception! And yes, Jilieth's death was heart-breaking, and yet, it rang true; it wouldn't have seemed real if Arithon were able to save everyone he tried to save. The real world doesn't work that way, and neither should a fictional world if it is to be at all believable.

I'm touched by the relationship that has developed between Tharrick and Jinesse, and saddened (but not surprised) by what happened with Lysaer and Ath's Brotherhood.

I don't think it'll take me very long to finish this one ;)

OMG, I love this book. Enjoying everyone's comments.

Something I don't quite understand at this point, is the significance of the blood oath Asandir forced Arithon to take. I don't understand why it is significant for a king/royal or to Arithon especially.

Kernos wrote: "Something I don't quite understand at this point, is the significance of the blood oath Asandir forced Arithon to take. I don't understand why it is significant for a king/royal or to Arithon espec..."

Because of Arithon's gifts of compassion and foresight, the curse puts a huge burden of guilt on him for the deaths so far in the wars with Lysaer, such that the F7 are fearful he might either arrange for his own death, or not prevent it, in a passive suicidal sort of way. And without him, Athera and the F7 are doomed.

This is a very perceptive question. It will clear further as the series deepens your awareness of just how deep the commitment invoked on the royal bloodlines comes into play upon sanction/and deeper still, with the completed ceremony of a high king's coronation.

There is an appendix that details information on successions (found at the end of the US hardback for Traitor's Knot, and also, repeated in Stormed Fortress). This section can be read at ANY TIME without spoiling - it will, however, (ahead of time) vastly deepen your knowledge of how the kingships/inheritances/titles work differently on Athera. These are not administrative ranks...but way more.

The point that bears at THIS stage of the manuscript: that such a commitment was ASKED of a sanctioned prince - on top of the energetic commitment already in force - was an unheard of/even desperate step.

There will be passages coming that will dramatically illuminate how a blood oath differs; and others that will powerfully demonstrate the nature and connections implicit in a royal bloodline. This thread will continue to develop all the way through the series.

Go on and speculate with other readers at this stage - or ask freely of me if you wish further insight.

I finished this chapter set last night...

I found the battle with the wraiths fascinating, and Sethvir's tactics very ingenious, not to mention dangerous.

I was not really surprised by Jilieth's death, but saddened. And especially saddened that Dakaar willfully turned away from his insights into both Arithon and Lysaer.

The scene with Lysaer at the hostel of Ath's Brotherhood was also heartbreaking on so many levels.

I may only be in book 3 (or, part 2 of book 2), but I really like this series and I'm glad the group brought me into it.

Kathi wrote: "I finished this chapter set last night...

I found the battle with the wraiths fascinating, and Sethvir's tactics very ingenious, not to mention dangerous.

I was not really surprised by Jilieth's ..."

Kathi - glad to have you - people are at all stages with the series, so not to worry about taking it at your own pace.

Nobody's discussed a few of your points here, yet, either.

Sethvir's use of the river pebble, or the hostels maintained by the adepts, or that healing scene, which showed so much on many levels, and hints at so much more to come.

Kathi wrote: "I finished this chapter set last night...

I found the battle with the wraiths fascinating, and Sethvir's tactics very ingenious, not to mention dangerous.

I was not really surprised by Jilieth's ..."

Kathi, you are valiant! Bless you for hanging in there. This book, in some ways is my favorite for some of the things that happen in relationships... :X ... keeping mouth closed.

The thing is there's so much in all the books it's hard to keep track of details, but all of the things Janny mentions were important, unique, and moving. Especially the healing scene with Jilieth...

LOL--the hardest part about being "behind" the group is seeing all the "unread" discussions... I have this thing about wanting to be "caught up" on all the discussions--none of those red "new" tags showing, but I'm desisting reading the threads until I get that far. Same with the non-WoLaS books I plan to read soon, like Under Heaven and Player of Games. If it's a book I may read in the future, I still read the discussion now because I know I won't remember anything about it.

For this series, if you plan to read it through, definitely DON'T read the discussions ahead - it would but definitely detract from the power of the initial moment, when you experience that all is not what you thought - the intensity would shift - it would not exactly spoil, but a great deal of the impact would be - changed.

Kathi wrote: "LOL--the hardest part about being "behind" the group is seeing all the "unread" discussions... I have this thing about wanting to be "caught up" on all the discussions--none of those red "new" tags..."

LOL...I'm the same way, so I always click on the "mark all as read" button so it stops taunting me :) I'm not as behind as you are, but I'm still a book behind everyone else. And as I finish each chapter set, I just pop into the archives and find the appropriate thread.

Janny, I would never read ahead in a series discussion that I'm currently reading--no worries!

Shel, if I "mark all as read" I literally would not remember what I'd read and what I hadn't, so the little (new) tags in red print are my reminders. I'm getting used to them, since I'm planning to read Under Heaven and The Player of Games soon, plus the rest of this series.

Kathi, I'm behind too and I know what you mean about all those red "new" buttons. They're accumulating at a great rate and mocking me. :)

Two moments of reckoning (Dakar's and Lysaer's), I wonder what is brewing. I'm very excited about their latest developments. Both scenes were beyond intense: not mainly for what they gleaned because I knew all along, but for their reactions, their way to cope...all the characters in this story who are confronted with the Arithon beneath his temper and forbidding mien react differently. Not even the F7 see him in the same way imho. And I think I can try to be a little less irked by Dakar. I admit, I still wish him lots of pain, but.

I'm really intrigued by the developing bard gifts of Arithon, I guess the loss (temporary?) of his mage-sight and skills may be positive for the heightening of his current powers, which are quite unique if I've understood properly.
Of course I was saddened by Jilieth's death but as other readers posted, it felt balanced, and I thought the pairing Arithon/Dakar, even working at the best of their capabilities could not reach the same effectiveness of Arithon/Elaria, particularly when at the crux, Dakar is distracted by his glimpses into the prince's own heart and mind. I'm still hoping for better judgment from the prophet anyway, one can take a truth, can take facts and see very differently from another, but his blind trust in Lysaer feels out of tune to me, he's not, say, like Diegan. I find this part of the story very moving, with two close scenes of innerness.

@Janny I really hope you've more in store for Tharrick and Jinesse. It was refreshing to read about them, and particularly Tharrick's personal journey. Anyway, very few characters stay unchanged after having to do with Arithon. I particularly like he never forces his visions or ideas to anyone, even when to his uttermost detriment (so much for the sly manipulator).

Alissa wrote: "Two moments of reckoning (Dakar's and Lysaer's), I wonder what is brewing. I'm really intrigued by the developing bard gifts of Arithon, I guess the loss (temporary?) of his mage-sight and skills m..."

Hi Alissa, great to see you enjoying the nuance of the storyline so much, a lot was packed into each scene. Yes, if a secondary character was developed in the storyline (as in Tharrick and Jinesse) they will come to play a role in the story as it moves on. Sometimes that role will be large or small - but either way, they will not overwhelm or diverge the storyline, but will integrate with the actions of the major players.

I see, thank you Janny!!! I was also wondering, about the High Kings, I take it the former ruling house of Melhalla has no heir apparent, but the Dukes of Alestron, are they subjected to the caithdeinen?

Alissa wrote: "I see, thank you Janny!!! I was also wondering, about the High Kings, I take it the former ruling house of Melhalla has no heir apparent, but the Dukes of Alestron, are they subjected to the caithd..."

In the absence of a High King, yes, the voice of crown justice would be the caithdein. There is an appendix section in one of the later volumes (at ending of Arc III) that goes into this subject in depth, also, how the lines of inheritance and descent work - it's not how you think. I believe also that section was set up as a reference on the Paravia website for reader access. The information is general and would not hold spoilers as nothing mentioned is story specific.

Thank you Janny! I'm mulling on it, as in Child of Prophecy the protagonist of caithdeinen lineage, and so far the only family of Melhalla presented is the Duke's, s'Brydion.