The Sword and Laser discussion

I thought I would start a thread to get some discussion going on The Once and Future King. This will be the first book on Arthurian legend I've read. My exposure to Arthurian legend has been pretty much through movies, so I am looking forward to reading about it for the first time. I probably wouldn't have picked this book to read on my own, but I did join Sword and Laser to find books out there I wouldn't have otherwise found. I might have picked The Princess Bride, but the library had copies of this available and all of the Princess Bride copies were checked out.

How much Arthurian legend have the rest of you reading the Once and Future King read before?

Umm, I read A Pup in King Arthur's Court when I was in elementary school. Does that count?

Like you, I've only ever seen it in movies or on television. Never really read anything, so this'll be my first.

I had a great Arthurian Legends picture book when I was a little kid. Proper unsanitised stuff it was too, very bloody and the ending was properly upsetting and it made quite an impression on me, it may even be what got me into fantasy in the first place.

I also read Le Morte D'Arthur (which I highly recommend) and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (which I don't, unless you're into Middle English) while I was in college (and of course, masses of secondary criticism and a glancing look at other middle english Arthurian works).

Having studied medieval literature in college, the answer is "way too much, and none of it much less than 500 years old." Off the top of my head:

Geoffrey of Monmoth - History of the Kings of Britain
Layamon - Brut
Anonymous - The Alliterative Morte Arthur
Anonymous - Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (don't listen to Kate - this is a great story)
Marie de France - The Lays
Thomas Malory - Le Morte d'Arthur
Thomas Chestre - Sir Launfal
Wolfram von Eschenbach - Parzival
Chretien de Troyes - Collected Romances
Gottfried von Strassburg - Tristan
Edmund Spenser - The Faerie Queene

Holy black knight, Sean, I designate you as our official 'compare Once and Future's take on Arthurian legend to traditional Arthurian literature' expert. :)

Other than the Sword & Laser pick The Mists of Avalon (which will be very interesting to compare to Once & Future) and slight nods to Arthurian legend in other fiction, my only exposure has been film versions as well. (For a totally over-the-top excursion into late 70's/early 80's oddness, watch the film Excalibur - you get to see Helen Mirren as Morgana, Patrick Stewart, Liam Neeson & Gabriel Byrne all pre-fame, and an astoundingly overacting Merlin -- available streaming on Netflix.)

If you've ever seen the Disney Movie, The Sword and the Stone, then you pretty much know a third of the book (well - minus the dancing and singing - BUT - not minus the cute talking woodland animals)

P.S.

It's been while, but I'm pretty sure that toward the end Thomas Malory (author of Le Morte D'Arthur) makes a cameo appearance as "Tom of Warwick"

This was really my intro to fantasy besides Michael Moorcock's stuff. I really like Mary Stewart's stuff but it's been a while since I read that and The Finovar Tapestry has the Arthur stuff wound through out that in a really fun way. Mort de arthur by Malory is a must and then T.H. White's classic as well. I also read a trilogy by Gillan Bradshaw a long time ago that was the Arthurian from one of the side characters point of view that was fun as well.

Most of my experience with the Authurian legend has been through movies. I saw "Camelot" from the backseat of my parent's car at a drive-in when I was about 6 or 7 years old. I loved Arthur.

Wasn't "Camelot" based on "The Once and Future King"?

Actually, the copy of The Once and Future King I got from the library does say that it is now a major motion picture "Camelot".

I love books based on the Arthurian legend. One of my favorites is a series by Jack Whyte (starting with the Skystone). It's more historical fiction than fantasy.

The Skystone

I was fortunate enough to take "Arthurian Legends" in college which was a very deep dive. Ultimately I recommend "la Morte De Arrhur" followed by "mists of Avalon" and finally "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", which our professor pointed out was a great representation of he legend wrapped in silliness.

For those with more modern tastes, I highly recommend "Arthur Rex "by Thomas Berger.

Having also been a budding medieval lit major in college (eventually switched to education), I have also read most of what Sean posted above. Sir Gawain is also my personal favorite.

I've read the excellent Pendragon Cycle by Steven Lawhead and The Winter King Trilogy by Bernard Cornwell

I read Le Morte D'Arthur way back in HS and got hooked. Also read and excellent short story featuring Arthurian characters called The Last Defender of Camelot by Roger Zelazny. I agree that the weaving of Arthurian legend into Guy Gavriel's Fonivar Tapestry was well done.
Speaking of weird spinoffs , anyone ever read the 80s comic series from DC called Camelot 3000?

Other than a National Geographic article, once I start reading the book, it would be my first time to read an Arthurian legend story.

My other exposure has been, as similar to others in this thread, from either movies or TV shows based on it. I believe I did see a documentary on it a few years back on the History Channel. When the History Channel did focus on history.

For shows taking the Arthur legend for a spin, I enjoyed the Doctor Who episode 'Battlefield'. It had the Doctor as 'Merlin'.

Like I think a few others here, my only real exposure was the previous S&L book, The Mists of Avalon, which I didn't care for. I think it was the perspective I didn't like, more than the story. I'm looking forward to digging into this one, though.

Sadly, though the book arrived, I think I have to be family tech support this evening...

Not a ton, just some Stephen Lawhead and M Z Bradley. But I am interested in it.

I've read a fair amount. Some of the older works that are a bit hard to follow. As well as The Mists of Avalon, and one that I haven't noticed mentioned on here which is Peter David's Knight Life series. It is set in New York, and is about the return of Arthur. Not a great series, but it is fun.

I may be able to give Sean a run for his money here, mostly because I was able to take a class called "King Arthur Thru the Ages" in college. I won't list everything, because it's basically what Sean or others listed, but no one's mentioned the Howard Pyle Arthur books or A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court and that was where we stopped before breaking off to cover more modern interpretations of the myth. I did a lot with comics, one paper on Fables: The Good Prince and another on the use of The Once and Future King in X2: X-Men United.

I read The Mists of Avalon a long time ago but other than that I do not think I have read any other Arthurian legends. This is also the first book I will be reading along with the group, so I am pretty excited about that!

tsk, tsk, to Tom for not posting in this thread since he has read a lot in this area! :0)

One of the most interesting takes on the Arthurian legends I have read is The Skystone the first book in the Camulod Chronicles by Jack Whyte. This uses a realistic historical setting and shows how it could have happened. Another favorite is Mary Stewart and The Crystal Cave, etc.

Like Sean, I've read a lot. Took an Arthurian Literature course in college, and then Celtic mythology, Irish mythology, etc.

Geoffrey of Monmoth - History of the Kings of Britain
Anonymous - Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (
Anonymous - The Maginogian
Thomas Malory - Le Morte d'Arthur
Chretien de Troyes - Collected Romances
Gottfried von Strassburg - Tristan (wow, this one was not my favorite)
John Conlee - The Dragon Stone: A Tale of King Arthur, Merlin & Cabal
John Conlee - In the Summer Country
T.H. White - The Once and Future King

I owned Mists of Avalon, but never read it. For some reason I ended up giving it away. I own a few books of Middle English poetry, as well, but I cannot remember if they are strictly Arthurian or not.

Bottom line, this genre is great. T.H. White does a great job with the story.

T.H. White, Malory, all of the Mary Stewart Merlin books, and Gwenhwyfar: The White Spirit, by Lackey

This is my first foray into a book about Arthurian legend. What I know is from movies and Dr. Daniel Jackson. I skipped reading The Mists of Avalon

Oh, and Shad, you are only the second person whom I have encountered with that name. The other is my brother. :) You are in a small, elite group.

Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time was heavily influenced by Arthurian legends. I am not sure if that was covered during The Eye of the World discussion.

Many of the character and place names in the series are taken from Malory, as well as the use of the sword in the stone and fisher king themes.

My favourite series of books based on the Arthur legend are The Warlord Chronicles by Bernard Cornwell.

The three books offer a completely different take on the legend, eschewing the magic many Arthurian stories feature for a much darker and more historically accurate portrayal of post-Roman Britain.

I only read Agincourt (which I loved) by Cornwell but I'll definitely add this series to my to-read list

Phil wrote: "My favourite series of books based on the Arthur legend are The Warlord Chronicles by Bernard Cornwell.

The three books offer a completely different take on the legend, eschewing the magic many Ar..."

Cornwell's books are my favorites too. I read or listen to them about once a year or so.
Unfortunately, Audible only has them in abridged form. Only ever seen the unabridged in cassette. For abridgments, they're among the best. You can hardly tell anything is missing, unlike most abridgements. Mainly they cut out some of the more minor storylines, which while not absolutely necessary, added Fuller flavour to the story.

At the other end of the spectrum, here in the UK, the BBC are currently showing the second series of Merlin. I find it excruciatingly painful to watch, because it jars so much with the Cornwell books.

Steinbeck's The Acts of King Arthur and His Noble Knights was wonderful but sadly he didn't finish it. I wish I had known that when I started reading it. lol.

Once and Future King is a wonderful read, if you're teedering on the edge of a decision to read. The Sword in the Stone takes a few liberties into modern fantasy, but this was where I got my start in Arthuriana 40 years ago. Many western European countries claim Arthur, which has done some dramatic and pretty cool things to the continuing legend, but the oldest references to an Arthur as a leader in battle is Welsh (Gwynedd), and the earliest references to "Merlin" is in the Welsh histories (further south) where Merlin was a description (Myrddyn; from the town of the many, or the legionary town of Caer Marthin) not his name. The red dragon of the Welsh flag originates in a prophesy uttered by Merlin to King Vortigern. Both the Welsh and the Brettons take Merlin more seriously than Arthur (battle leader not king) as a historic figure. As mentioned before, Geoffrey of Monmoth is the first to mention them in western literature and making them English... quoting Welsh sources that may no longer exist. The Welsh Mabinogoin is the oldest "fantasy" Arthur on record to my knowledge, but fantasy in a Celtic Christian way, full of symbolism. The british landscape is pot-marked by Arthurian associations, so he's still an important figure in the public consciousness. I agree that reading "le Mort d'Arthur" would be the next best read for the whole picture.

I apologize if I have missed this somewhere, but no one seems to have mentionedAlfred Tennyson at all. I have taken several mythology/legends/Arthur courses and read quite a few books of them, and we always read Alfred, Lord Tennyson. Is he not considered to be a great author of Arthurian legend? I am just curious as to why he was not mentioned nor his Idylls of the King.

I, too, would recommend the Pendragon books by Stephen Lawhead. Very interesting take on the story and well-written. And by the same author, Avalon, which is a modern-day Arthur book, very interesting.

I remember reading the Mary Stewart series as a teen, that was my first real exposure to the Arthur stories. There are some interesting Arthur/Merlin books written by Jane Yolen that I've also enjoyed, which are quick reads, being written for younger readers.

I've read The Mists of Avalon, The Once and Future King, a non-fiction book called (I think) The Search for the Real King Arthur (that was excellent).

My favorite I think is the Pendragon series by Steven Lawhead: Taliesin, Merlin, and Arthur.

I remember reading that series about the same time as I read Mists of Avalon, and later getting events in the two stories confused when I went back to reread them! :-)

There was another series (by Peter David?) set in current times where a boy was the reborn Arthur in New York. If I recall, he became a media star.

Another fun take on the myths of that time is the cartoon series Gargoyles. That had Arthurian mythology, Shakespearean mythology, Celtic mythology, etc. all jumbled together into a brilliant story.

I'm sure I've read others, as I consider myself a fan of the genre, but I can't recall any other specifics at the moment.

Kevin wrote: "There was another series (by Peter David?) set in current times where a boy was the reborn Arthur in New York. If I recall, he became a media star. "

Yes, the first book is Knight Life by Peter David.

Gargoyles is a lot of fun. It also is the source of a favorite quote about books:

"The written word is all that stands between memory and oblivion. Without books as our anchors, we are cast adrift, neither teaching, nor learning. They are windows on the past, mirrors on the present, and prisms reflecting all possible futures. Books are lighthouses erected in the dark sea of time."

Randy wrote: "I've read the excellent Pendragon Cycle by Steven Lawhead and The Winter King Trilogy by Bernard Cornwell"

The Steven Lawhead series irritated me with almost every page. I made it through the first book, and maybe the second, because it was Arthurian so I was trying to get through it.

Cornwell's Arthur series is probably my favorite, though I loved The Life of Sir Aglovale de Galis nearly as much. The Life of Sir Aglovale de Galis was a tough read, but it had a heck of a payoff.

If you are looking for a great Arthurian reference book at a reasonable price, check out The Arthurian Companion, 2ND ED.. I use it when reading Arthurian books, and when I'm running the Pendragon RPG.

Some other good Arthurian books, also by Green Knight Publishing, a company I once worked for which produced Arthurian games and fiction.
The Doom of Camelot
The Pagan King
The Follies of Sir Harald
Exiled from Camelot
The Merriest Knight: The Collected Arthurian Tales of Theodore Goodridge Roberts

Glen wrote: Yes, the first book is Knight Life by Peter David."

Yeah, I did read that one too, but it wasn't the one I was thinking of :-) There was a series with a little boy in modern day New York that was arthur reborn or something. All the players were in it, but in somewhat different, more modern incarnations - though they were all supposed to their reborn selves.

Sporadic Reviews wrote: "Glen wrote: Yes, the first book is Knight Life by Peter David."

Yeah, I did read that one too, but it wasn't the one I was thinking of :-) There was a series with a little boy in modern day New..."

Ah, that's right, Knight Life doesn't have Arthur as a boy. I think it was Merlin that was the boy. My bad. Not sure which one has Arthur reborn as a boy in New York.

Are you thinking of the YA series Pendragon by D.J. MacHale? Then there's the new Disney Channel movie "Avalon High" that came out last month. :-D

There is a series by Molly Cochran and Warren Murphy that pulls Arthur, Merlin (Or Taliesin, depending on how you choose to translate it) and Lancelot into modern times. Although its no longer so modern. :) Think it starts with The Forever King, and maybe The Broken Sword is the second? The third is penned by Molly Cochran alone. It's been a decade plus since I read it, but I remember something about a gameshow.

Edit: That was Galahad, not Lancelot.

Does anyone remember a book that had "Arthur Penn for Mayor" or some such? I used to own it, but can't remember reading it.

No, wasn't the D.J. MacHale... never heard of those (I checked his website). Thanks for the suggestion though.
I did read The Forever King at one point.
Arthur Penn rings a bell...

I cant get enough of the Arthurian legend. I started with The Once And Future King in grade school and have since evolved to read everything from The History of the Kings of Brittan to Avalon. I am actually in the middle of writing a modern day Arthurian YA novel. Anyone know of any good novels that focus on Sir Gawain and the Green Knight?

I've read Le Morte d'Arthur: King Arthur & the Legends of the Round Table, the Stephen R. Lawhead series: Taliesin, Pendragon, Merlin, and Arthur. I haven't read the last one Grail.

Many, many, many. Just read the first of Bernard Cornwell's trilogy, The Winter King, which I think may be destined to become almost as beloved as The Once and Future King. Also love A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, the Zelazny story (and the New Twilight Zone episode that was based on it!), Le Morte d'Arthur and the Tolkein translation of Sir Gawain is rather good. I adore the Mabinogian, which holds many of the root myths, For some reason I've never got around to the Marion Zimmer Bradley books, I must do.

With the Lawhead trilogy, I really enjoyed the first one, and immediately hated the second. Loathed it so much it is one of the few books I've ever thrown in the bin.

Have you tried The Hawk of May or Sir Gawain and the Green Lady?