Beyond Reality discussion

Welcome to all short fiction enthusiasts! This thread will host all discussion for our first short story, Paper Cradle by Stephen Gaskell, which is published in the September 2010 issue (#48) of Clarkesworld Magazine.

The story is available online for free in two formats:

Print Format: Clarkesworld #48 September 2010
Audio Format: MP3/podcast read by Kate Baker

I chose this story as the first Day 5 selection because it is compact in length, combines "hard" sci-fi with psycho-socio themes, and seems like it is ripe for discussion. We will be holding all discussion for each story in a "one thread per story" format, to keep things simple, so anyone please feel free to weigh in here with thoughts on this story. (Watch for the Day 20 story choice around the 14th, to be selected from suggestions from the group in the Master Story List thread in this folder.)

Wow. I just read through this, and I loved it. I think I need to let it percolate a bit in my mind before I can come back and comment thoughtfully, but I'll be back. :)

Wow! That was a real pleasure. The story unfolds in its becoming. Beautiful.

I subscribe to the Clarkesworld podcast and started listening to this story when it went up a couple of weeks ago. I thought it was kind of boring and didn't finish it. I reloaded it on my iPod and gave it another go. This time, I paid better attention and figured out what was going on.

I think Clarkesworld gets some great stories, but Kate Baker isn't the easiest reader to listen to.

Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Wow! That was a real pleasure. The story unfolds in its becoming. Beautiful."

Nice choice to start us off.

A good example of how short stories can compress a theme to a poignant impression.

Sandra, I love your phrasing. :)

@Random - Thanks.:)

@Sandi - you should try just reading it. It's beautiful.

Random wrote: "A good example of how short stories can compress a theme to a poignant impression."

Well said, Random. I just read the story and agree. I have a weak spot for short stories that tie together different time lines in this way. The various flashbacks to the narrator's early life tie in perfectly with the current events, and amplify their meaning. Nice choice to start us off, Candiss!

Just finished reading this. Admittedly, I got a little choked up at the end. Very beautifully written. Excellent first choice Candiss.

I'm glad so many of us enjoyed this story. I was a little iffy on the choice, worried the hard sf elements would put off some, while the message-y bits might annoy others. In the end, I figured it was a decent balance that didn't go too far either direction.

Personally, I really enjoyed it. I found the imagery poetic and poignant, and the more I thought about it, the more I liked that although we knew the protagonist was Japanese (on a team with a Russian and an American), we didn't know who the "enemy" was. We knew they were testing this superweapon on an island off the coast of China - hence, possibly a posture aimed toward that nation - but the overall feel I got was that the story was referencing weapons of war/mass destruction in general, not making some specific cultural statement, and I appreciated that. Did others get the same impression?

I also found the author's giving the protagonist a dissenter's voice to be something of a gutsy move. I didn't think it came across as heavy-handed or preachy, but it seemed like a natural growth out of the main character's own cultural experience, his unwillingness to inflict such suffering on others, despite rivalries/conflicts. He knew he was giving up everything - at least his freedom, and ultimately he chose to give his own life in an attempt to spare many others'.

Felina - I got a little choked up, too. I suspect this story may make it onto at least the long lists for the various spec-fic awards next year.

- but the overall feel I got was that the story was referencing weapons of war/mass destruction in general, not making some specific cultural statement, and I appreciated that. Did others get the same impression?

I agree. I think if the author hadn't of made the crew members of different nationalities then it might have seemed culture specific. It came across to me as just another blundered leap in science for mankind. The old 'to busy asking if they could they didn't stop to think if they should' type conundrum.

I'm familiar with the origami crane movement so that made it especially touching.

Candiss wrote: "I didn't think it came across as heavy-handed or preachy, but it seemed like a natural growth out of the main character's own cultural experience, his unwillingness to inflict such suffering on others, despite rivalries/conflicts. He knew he was giving up everything - at least his freedom, and ultimately he chose to give his own life in an attempt to spare many others'."

Ok, now this is very interesting. For some reason, I automatically assumed that the narrator was female. It didn't even occur to me that I may have been reading a male character - maybe because I'm a bit of a daddy's girl myself so I automatically projected my own experience onto the narrator's experience with his/her father. I just skimmed the story again, and there are no gendered pronouns anywhere in reference to the narrator, so there's an interesting discussion to be had here - Candiss assumed a male narrator, I got female - what did the rest of you get from it and why do you think you went that way?

Shel - I actually didn't assume a male or female narrator. I wrote "he" for convenience, (I think it was because the author is male, so I "heard" his voice in lieu of having a definite gender for the protagonist.) but I didn't have a particular gender in mind when I was reading the story. But your question is interesting! (re: what gender the other group members "saw" as they read)

I read male. Not sure why. I'm going to look at it again.

I think I may have gotten male because it seemed unlikely to me that a female could have gotten educated enough to become some kind of space engineer living in modern day Japan. Perhaps my perception is off.

I assumed female because I listened to it narrated by a female. Also, the relationship with the father and the identification with the mother all said female to me.

I also read male and cannot say why

I made my mom read it and she got male for the same reason I did.

I'm not sure the sex of the narrator really matters, but I assumed it was male, not sure why. Will have to reread.

Candiss, I liked all your points. I don't think the country the weapon was aimed at is important. It's the destruction of a weapon of mass destruction that is the important piece.

It's a beautiful, poignant story, full of meaning and the love of a father for his child -- which leads to the valuing of human life motivating the protagonists' action.

Good choice.

Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "I'm not sure the sex of the narrator really matters, but I assumed it was male, not sure why. Will have to reread.

Candiss, I liked all your points. I don't think the country the weapon was aime..."

I loved the story, and I don't usually like Sci-Fi short story. The use of language in the opening paragraphs was wonderful.

I assumed the character was female because there is a line about her looking in her handbag.

Chris wrote: "I assumed the character was female because there is a line about her looking in her handbag. "

I totally missed that! I went back to search for the line, and of course there it was. Huh.

Missed that too. I'd read the character as male too. Nice catch Chris.

Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "I'm not sure the sex of the narrator really matters, but I assumed it was male, not sure why. Will have to reread."

I think you're right that it doesn't matter to the story at all, I just thought it was interesting! More of a reflection on the reader than on the story, really :)

In the same vein, it doesn't matter who the enemy is, because that's not important to the core message of the story.

I think the most chilling aspect of the story is that it takes place in the very near future (we're told that the narrator began space training in 2010), and seems totally plausible.

True Shel!

Shel wrote: "Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "I'm not sure the sex of the narrator really matters, but I assumed it was male, not sure why. Will have to reread."

I think you're right that it doesn't matter to the stor..."

You're right. I liked the fact that we went told anything about the enemy and nothing really about the character's sex. I suppose a man could have a handbag, right?

I just read this. I also assumed male - probably because the author was male and I was looking at his picture through half the story. I also missed the part about the handbag. Is handbag always a synonym for purse? And they have those European male purses now, anyway.

I thought it was an ok story. I thought the parts when the father was in the hospital were the most touching - and the part about how nations stopped talking, and so did we. Probably because I have an odd relationship with my own father.

I agree with some of the commentors on the site, though. (Don't know if anyone else wrote them.) While I appreciate the gesture of sabotage - that's all it is, a gesture. It'll be fixed, and the test will proceed. I suppose that by doing in front of the cameras, the narrator is hoping people will take notice. But I think that, as a dissenter, there may have been other avenues to follow - so I didn't quite connect with the story from that level.

I liked the bit with origami, partially, I suppose, because a friend of mine is obsessed with making cranes for people.

Oh, and I glossed over at the technical stuff, but it wasn't so present that it impeded the rest of the story.

Overall I think I'd give it a 3 or 3 1/2.

ETA: I should add that I did quite like some of the metaphors and visuals, and the connection between past and future. There were some nice moments in the story, but didn't always connect, overall.

I believe that sometimes someone standing up and saying this is wrong in a big public way can change public opinion and move the world. Like Ghandi, like MLK, Jr. Putting yourself out there willing to take the consequences. and I thought making a big crane out of it had that kind of message and hopefully moral force. that is a hopeful rather than cynical story.

I really liked the story, but I have a huge problem with the timeline. (Sorry, I can't remember the main character's name.) The mother was supposedly born the year before the A-bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. That means she was born in 1944. The narrator started space training in 2010. If she was 30 when she started space training, then she would have been born in 1980 when the mother was 36 years old. It seems to me that it would be highly unlikely for a woman exposed to nuclear fallout in 1945 to give birth that late in her reproductive years, especially when reproductive technology wasn't as advanced as it is today. The possiblity just seems really remote.

Then again, maybe space training starts at 40, not at 30 or younger. I don't find that likely either.

The self-sacrifice made by the protagonist was very realistic though. I don't know how the child of a Hiroshima survivor could allow another such attack to be carried out. I am a little surprised she was even on that mission. You'd think a basic background check would have found this link in her family history and they would have grounded her.

Marty wrote: "I believe that sometimes someone standing up and saying this is wrong in a big public way can change public opinion and move the world. Like Ghandi, like MLK, Jr. Putting yourself out there willin..."


I have to agree. The statement of itself, the action is important. The character's actions may not have an immediate affect, but it can in the minds of those who were witness to it. It can affect their opinions and their future actions.

Candiss wrote: "I was a little iffy on the choice, worried the hard sf elements would put off some"

I hope that doesn't mean we won't get a chance to try out some Hard SF? :)

I'm sure we'll do Hard SF at some point - also because half of the short story selections will be randomly selected from stories nominated by members. So please make sure to nominate some hard SF - and any other genres you like!

Of course we'll do hard SF! I was just unclear as to whether the short story participants were more fantasy fans, hard SF fans, "soft" SF fans, or some happy hybrid. I wanted to find a good middle ground to start with.

Shel wrote: "Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "I'm not sure the sex of the narrator really matters, but I assumed it was male, not sure why. Will have to reread."

I think you're right that it doesn't matter to the stor..."

Actually I think it does matter to the story's message. I think Gaskell is suggesting that even though global society may be growing less sexist (not only is the narrator a Japanese female, she converses with a Russian female cosmonaut) we're not getting any less militaristic. Maybe he was influenced by growing up during Margaret Thatcher's era.

Sid wrote: "Shel wrote: "Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "I'm not sure the sex of the narrator really matters, but I assumed it was male, not sure why. Will have to reread."

I think you're right that it doesn't matte..."

I keep combing the story, and the only cosmonaut I find named is named Pavel - a male name. Then there's this passage:
The experiments had changed since my last trip. I pushed away, backing into one of the handover cosmonauts. "They want to know what fighting up here will be like," she said. The skin of her face was sallow, her eyes sunken.

I see you are right!

But my re-combing notes - and I'm not sure how I missed this before - that although the protagonist doesn't refer to their own gender, they do name themselves, although it's not fully clear if this is a personal or family name. Examples:
"I repeat that's a negative. Test must proceed. Prepare Koryo for an EVA."
...and...
"Something wrong, Koryo?"

I shake my visored head.

The character is called "Koryo" at least two more times.

I am a name nerd, so I can't leave this alone (and I must warn you I will probably ramble). "Koryo" doesn't ring immediate Japanese bells for me, nor does it suggest a gender right off the bat. Looking it up, I don't find references to it as a regularly-used personal name...however, it is used as an autonym - "self-name", like Nippon/Nihon/Nippon-koku for Japan or Magyarország for Hungary...what those countries call themselves as opposed to what the name is in English for said country - for Korea. In fact, it is the name of the dynasty from which the word "Korea" originates and was a time of artistic flourishing. It is also the name of a town in Japan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koryo-sa...
http://asianinfo.org/asianinfo/korea/...
http://www.answers.com/topic/kory-nara

But I don't think any of that is immediately pertinent, because of this passage in the story:
It was through the origami that I got interested in space. Do you remember? I read about the Miura fold that JAXA had used to package solar panels up in the most efficient way possible. I couldn't believe the ancient art could have such applications. Soon I was reading about weightlessness and geosynchronous orbits and space stations. Soon I knew what I wanted to do with my life.

The Miura fold was developed by a Japanese astrophysicist - named KORYO Miura! (Koryo Miura was male, incidentally.) So I'm guessing the protag was named after this astrophysicist/origami artist. The name "Koryo" suggests some Korean ancestry for Mr. Miura, as it is common in many cultures to name someone a common nickname for a culture found in their heritage. (A more well-known in English-speaking nations example would be Frances/Francis, which means "from France.")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miura_fold

What an excellent bit of linguistic detective work! Only thing left to determine is if Koryo in Japan is one of those bi-gender names like Sidney is in the English-speaking world.