Green Group discussion

This thread is intended to provide ideas about small, fairly easy things you can do to help out! Every little bit helps, and most of them save money :) Please feel free to post your own ideas or ask any questions you have about why these things work

-plug electronics into multi-outlet strips and turn them off when you aren't using them

-recycle as much as you can, even things like toilet paper tubes and random scraps of paper

-don't flush unneeded prescription drugs down the toilet. Put them in a plastic bag with something really gross like coffee grounds or rotting food and throw them out.

-start a compost pile! Food waste is a huge part of landfills.

-use cloth napkins and dishtowels instead of paper napkins/towels

-wash as many of your clothes as you can in cold water

-don't drink bottled water, or if you do PLEASE recycle the bottle

-buy products made out of recycled materials (bowls, cups, building materials, etc), otherwise all these recycled goods have no where to go, and there are few incentives to recycle for companies

-buy things that are made to last, even if they cost a bit more. The investment pays off in the long run

-take reusable bags with you when you run errands. Most places give 5 or 10 cents off when you do. Otherwise use paper bags (of if you must plastic, but again, please recycle)

-make a list of errands that you have to run/things you need and go all at once. That saves both gas money and emissions!

-If where you are going is not far away, walk! Walking burns more calories as running the same distance, so it's good for you AND the earth.

What else do you guys do to help?

Since reading The World Is Blue (well, i haven't quite finished it), i've become super plastic-conscious and am trying very hard to stop using as much plastic as possible, which is incredibly hard. plastic is pervasive! i am excited, though, that i got some nifty washable mesh produce bags, which are great at the store but also at farmer's markets.

I try to buy as much as I can from my local markets rather than the supermarket, it's cheaper, better for the environment as the food is generally locally grown, there's less packaging, it's better for the community and best of there's plenty of banter with the stall holders, you don't get that kind of service in a supermarket!

I also buy my furniture, books and other household either from the market, secondhand stores or charity shops. Not only is it cheaper but you know the items are good quality as they've lasted years already (especially in the case of furniture).

Nice! That's excellent, Sam. I try to buy my food locally too. Honey especially because it's good for my allergies.

For those that celebrate Christmas, LED Christmas tree lights are up to 93% more efficient that the traditional kind...

speaking of christmas...thoughts on trees? real or artificial? this is a constant debate in my extended family (not necessarily for green reasons). and if a person gets an artificial one, are there any that are made from eco-friendly materials? i'm just so freaked out about plastics now. :(

@Marieke-I hate this question. Every year is anguish. I don't want an artificial tree *whine*.

Here in western Oregon where I live, there are thousands of acres of Chrismas tree farms. You can go cut your own. At one time, I thought "Oh this is a great alternative to cutting down a tree out in the woods". Then I wised up: the herbicides, the use of productive farmland for a bunch of trees that get thrown away, the trucking of trees across the country . . .. Well, maybe tree farms aren't so great either.

I've been contemplating buying a real live tree, in a pot, and then planting it outside after Christmas. Or keeping it around in a big pot and bringing it inside each year.

yeah, it IS anguish. on a sentimental note, i really hate undecorating it and tossing it out to the curb. even though i know that our municipality makes mulch, or supposedly they do, from all the christmas trees, but still...there is something about it that bugs me. i can't stand all those sad trees laying in the gutter waiting for Mr. Trashman.

i hadn't even thought about the herbicides...

A close family friend of ours is an organic Christmas tree farmer, but that's a whole different can of worms.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't in this case. Plastic and herbicides are both bad.

@Melissa-where in Western Oregon? I went to school out there.

I've gone for the artificial option as the lesser of two serious evils as there aren't any organic christmas tree farms anywhere near me (not sure if theres any in the UK for that matter). I figured that as long as I look after it and keep it for as long as possible that it's not quite as bad as the repeated, annual and excess use of herbicides. Would have rathered a eco friendly artificial tree though!

Sam wrote: "I've gone for the artificial option as the lesser of two serious evils as there aren't any organic christmas tree farms anywhere near me (not sure if theres any in the UK for that matter). I figur..."

this is the direction i've been leaning in for those very reasons (one time "evil" versus many times). i think melissa's remark about herbicides pushed me over the edge yesterday! my husband has been pressing for an artificial tree since that is what he grew up with but i grew up with real trees and have had a hard time figuring this out. for years we had a small white tree (i figured if it's gonna be fake, it's gonna be FAKE). but then we moved and got rid of it and now we are in a place where i'd like to have a full-size tree. last year we simply had no tree because we were going to be traveling. but this year i'd really like have one! i'm going to have to poke around and see if there is any kind of green movement going on with artificial tree manufacturers.

I don't know what I'd do if I had a fake tree. When I was a kid we used to go in the woods and cut one down, but now that my brother and I are pretty much grown, that doesn't really happen any more.

Kirsten wrote: "I don't know what I'd do if I had a fake tree. When I was a kid we used to go in the woods and cut one down, but now that my brother and I are pretty much grown, that doesn't really happen any more."

I would've loved to do that as a kid (actually I'd love to do that now) but here in the UK we don't really have the woodlands to do it as they've either been cut down already, are privately owned or are broad-leaved woodlands so don't really have good xmas trees in them.

Just out of interest why don't you do it any more, surely it's just as fun to do as an adult as it is as a kid?

I noticed that about the UK. After growing up in a pretty rural state, it was really different for me.

Well now my family is scattered to the four winds and usually I make it home Dec. 23rd at the earliest, and I leave shortly after Christmas, so there isn't a lot of time with all the commotion. We just go get one from our friend's tree farm, or he delivers one for us. Occasionally we have had outdoor trees that we decorate right before Christmas and then take down the decorations.

thanks to a friend in another group, i found the the perfect tree!!!

Marieke wrote: "thanks to a friend in another group, i found the the perfect tree!!!"

Now that's what I call recycling!

here's a really fun idea! i'm going to do this myself but i'm going to do something better with the handles and possibly a lining.

Marieke wrote: "here's a really fun idea! i'm going to do this myself but i'm going to do something better with the handles and possibly a lining."

I like that idea, I've got a fair few old t-shirts that I haven't wanted to throw out. I was thinking about turning them into draught excluders but this is a much better idea.

i don't know if this is really a small thing, but it certainly is clever.

Nice! Some of the stuff people are coming up with is really clever.

I just got a set of bowls made out of recycled plastic. They're very cheerfully colored.

I have not put up a tree for at least two years. My husband is not a big Christmas fan. But this last year I did look into alternatives. If you just google alternative Christmas trees a lot of good pictures and info does come up. One I saw which was quite cute were the words Merry Christmas cut out and taped to the wall in the shape of a tree. There are so many options out there....other than real or fake.

I love the tee shirt bags! I may have to make those!

i didn't know that coffee grounds can be a household deodorizer!

Kirsten wrote: "-don't flush unneeded prescription drugs down the toilet. Put them in a plastic bag with something really gross like coffee grounds or rotting food and throw them out."

Help me understand this? Firstly, I don't understand why it's considered helpful. Because it's not going in the ocean via sewer? Ok, but it's going in the groundwater via landfill. Along with compostable and recyclable materials, no less. (But why?)

Drugs are considered a hazardous material, and should be disposed of as such. A quick Google will tell you where to drop them off locally. Though, honestly, I have no idea how they're handled then, and the real issue is that we keep creating and using hazardous materials... of the three R's, reduce is by far the most important, and most neglected.

Speaking of the R's and the holiday dilemma, I use a synthetic tree, and though plastic is certainly not ideal, the reuse is in full swing. It sits in a box in the closet for... ok let's be honest, 9 months, then comes out to play every year without extra consumption.

I work for the Sheriff's Office. The rule is now....do NOT flush medication. I am not sure where this rule came from, but this is what were are supposed to say....Do not flush medication. Liquid mix with dirt and tape lid shut. Pills mix with water and tape lid shut. Then throw it out.

Personally I think it is hazardous and should be taken to a special place or have the doctor take them back for recycling.

Part of the reason here in FL is that there is a large drug problem esp with pills. You really need to destroy the meds so as no one can find them and take them.

I am not sure what to do about Christmas this year.

Here the rule is that you bring them to the hazardous waste dump. The drug problem thing is why you have to mix them with other thing, like Jennbunny said. The coffee grounds or whatever are just a suggestion from local law enforcement. The point is make it gross so people won't take/sell them.

Landfill technology is changing, but unfortunately the drugs we put in the toilet or water system cannot be removed by our current filtration methods, so they just cycle back into us, which can be harmful to humans and animals alike. Fish are losing male populations due to all the birth control in the water already...

Here in the UK our doctors and pharmacies will take any and all unused medication and dispose of it appropriately and there is a big campaign at the moment to get people thinking about the medications they have lying around and if they really need to keep getting more just to have it wasted. I don't think I would ever just throw medication out, no matter what I've done to them, it just seem right at all.

Sam wrote: "Here in the UK our doctors and pharmacies will take any and all unused medication and dispose of it appropriately and there is a big campaign at the moment to get people thinking about the medicati..."

so what is the "appropriate" method? i meant to pull out Garbage Land: On the Secret Trail of Trash last night to see if/how she discussed this issue.

Kirsten: True, the adverse effects are quicker and more acutely noticeable when dumped straight to the water, but suggesting sending them to the landfill I can't get behind when there is a better* way to get rid of them. Officials suggesting dirt before pharmacy take-back/HazMat disposal are propagating ignorance by catering to perceived laziness of those wanting to get rid of their pills("they're going to throw them in the trash anyways..."). Not to mention their own ignorance and laziness. As those who care about reducing the toxicity of our environment, I think we should do all we can to make the best solutions the most well known solutions. If explaining why takes extra words, so be it.

*I put Garbage Land: On the Secret Trail of Trash on my to read shelf after this discussion for that very reason, Marieke, hoping it would tell me how hazardous waste is handled. I assume much of it is reduce and store, like radioactive waste, but it probably varies by material quite a bit. If anyone has any books/links/other resources, I'm very curious.

Additionally, a quick wiki read tells me that many of the pharmaceuticals in human waste excretion are still quite intact and harmful, so again the issue is reduction and better sewage treatment. I've recently learned of the existence of Living Machines and other biological wastewater treatment systems (so cool!), which likely incorporate organisms specifically included to break down pharmaceuticals, among other things.


Getting back to the small things, big difference discussion, the zero waste home tips page is kind of amazing. They rigorously go through every room of the house and give real, often times immediately implementable, solutions to drastically reduce the disposable aspects of daily life.

Lindsay, I think you'll enjoy Garbage Land. I read it recently, but it was almost information overload for me and that's why i can't remember what she may or may not have said about meds disposal. we have a discussion thread for it, which ought to be revived. :D

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that is what happens, and that it's better than dumping them directly in the water cycle. Laziness is a chronic condition these days in some respects, so more words can be problematic. After working for the government in a rural area, I can say with certainty that we will have to come up with an alternative method of presentation for some audiences.

Unfortunately starting mainly in the 1940s and 50s, we invented new chemicals and compounds faster than we have figured out their effects, especially because many of them can interact with the environment/atmosphere many many years after their release. Things that may be inert in one environment are often harmful in others. It will take many years of research to discover ways to reverse the damage currently being done.

(I should not have said more words, but more carefully selected words. Looks like I need practice! )

I absolutely agree, poor presentation of issues and solutions is a major roadblock for any attempt at progress. Educational technique is in a sorry state. Audience matters. So, why present a "less bad" option, when we can present a good option in a better way?

The choice should not be between releasing directly today, and releasing erratically for hundreds of years.

The dirt-mixing answer is given to remedy the issue of dumpster-diving drug searchers, an issue that presents because the ideal is not made readily available; because pharmacies may not take pills back, relevant waste management facilities may be effectively inaccessible, etc. How can one change that if they don't know the options exist? My fear is that people who can do better maintain a broken status quo due to unwitting ignorance.

IMO I feel it is such a shame that all these medicines go to waste. I know it is nearly impossible to recycle medicines but there are so many countries out there who need medical care.

The county where I live has a tremendous pill problem and doctors just dole out the pills....they are in on the game now. The pill users are just destructive and dangerous.

While I agree, it can be a challenge in our nation. We are currently in a period of transition from one way of doing business to another, and in a nation of 300 million extremely diverse people, with different wants and needs it can be tough. The last generation that I really feel pulled together for a common cause was the one that fought WWII. Lawmakers and citizens could all do more, but at the same time, nothing will happen instantaneously. The same process that protects us from despotism (for the most part) also moves and changes relatively slowly. With the funds they have, local governments usually do the best they can to put out fires, they rely heavily on local voters and are answerable, so they try to focus more on issues that their communities see as a problem.

Humans can be chronically short sighted. Often we have a problem organizing things that will benefit the future if it means any amount of sacrifice now, and with local elections often being every two years or so, those people holding office are sometimes afraid to try new things.

Sometimes it's also hard to know exactly what the best solution will be in the future, there are many uncertainties/variables, and we are standing at a crossroads culturally, economically, climatically, etc. Risk management is something drilled into the heads of government officials, and Newton's Law about objects in motion certainly applies.

Edit: This isn't meant to be sexist, but I think we could benefit from more women in these positions. Men and women handle things differently. I've heard many people say that social change usually comes from women wanting something better for their children, and I think that theory has some merit to it. I feel we could benefit from having a more even distribution of men, women, and other minorities in on the solution to generate more ideas the other parties may not have seen .

Marieke wrote: "Sam wrote: "Here in the UK our doctors and pharmacies will take any and all unused medication and dispose of it appropriately and there is a big campaign at the moment to get people thinking about ..."

Here they get re-used if they are still sealed and in date, either by shelters and emergency clinics or sent on to Third World countries. Or if they can't be re-used they are incinerated as bio hazard waste. This may not be ideal but air quality requirements minimise the emissions from such places and it does neutralise the chemicals within the medications so they don't have the environmental impacts they would have done if they were just flushed or sent to land fill.

That makes a lot of sense, Sam. I think Americans are obsessed with burying things in the ground! lol.
and i wish we had a re-use mechanism...is there really no such thing? i know that some of my dogs' medicines can be used by a different dog--so i can save them in the event one of my other dogs needs them or i can donate them to a shelter. but i can't return them to my vet....or maybe i can for them to donate...i've forgotten what they told me. :(

anyway, this may be a potential book topic for us--disposal of hazardous waste...not just medicines, but lightbulbs that contain mercury, electronics, etc.

it's definitely an area that i would like to be more informed about.

It is interesting to see how different countries deal with these issues. I think a big thing about burying waste here is our lack of space to actually do so and the EU has increasingly tough guidelines in place governing such activities which make it more and more expensive. Which in turn forces companies/businesses etc to find suitable alternatives, it's probably the only reason why they do so to be honest but if that's what it takes, so be it in my view.

That seems like a good plan. I think part of what helps Europe out is that they have less land to bury things in! They had to come up with alternatives. That would work out in the U.S. as we have tighter restrictions on airborne emissions than we do on water...

Maybe that could be our September topic?

Edit: Sam, great minds think alike?

ha! you guys posted practically the same thing at the same time! i was confused for a moment but the time-stamp helped me out! yes, let's put this on the september docket. :D

in addition to having the perception that we have space, americans also hate government interference, er, i mean, regulation...

Ooo that is quite freaky, obviously we share a wave length or two Kirsten!

Haha, perhaps! Which is quite a scary thought.

Good point, Marieke. I can't say that I do, since generally the government signs my paychecks.

The government always signs my paychecks. :D

i just came across this short article about something we should all NOT do! :D

Damn good point that Marieke, luckily I've never locked my bike to a tree (couldn't even if I felt the need as I've got one of those heavy duty D locks for my bike which would never fit around a tree by itself never mind the tree and my bike). Seen a few do that in town here but they frequently got a stern talking to by any community officers that spot them.

We have a lot of bike racks around now that I think about it. I don't think I've ever locked my bike to a tree. Good point, though.

I cannot even ride a bike.

You should learn! It's the best, I bike like 50 miles a day.

I would love to learn, BUT I think I might be too old and well....I have no balance and I am very clumsy.

You're never to old to learn :) I bet you'd do great!

I am hoping to learn this year, but I do have issues with balance. I have a neuro muscular disease called Charcot Marie Tooth. SO I am not the most graceful of people....LOL