Goodreads Librarians Group discussion

I haven't kept up with this group so if I've missed something, I apologize. I've noticed that some librarians are removing the series information from the title of a book. Even though we have the series page now, didn't we agree to leave the info in the title as well?

Here's an example: http://www.goodreads.com/book/edits/3...

I noticed several titles in the Carol Lynne Cattle Valley were changed by a different librarian. I changed them back. I like seeing the series info in the title but if the decision has been made to remove it, then I'll stop putting it back.

There was no decision made, but many of us have been leaving it there. (For myself, it's totally a laziness issue.)

Moderatrix Lori wrote: "I haven't kept up with this group so if I've missed something, I apologize. I've noticed that some librarians are removing the series information from the title of a book. Even though we have the..."

No, we can't remove the series information until it is shown everywhere that the title is shown. Also it may be removed with a script when the time comes, so no one should be removing existing series information. Thanks for mentioning it again.

Thank you. I'm going to pm the two librarians and ask them nicely to please stop removing them.

I don't remove it, but i don't place it in the title anymore. It comes automatic when you add the book to a series, so i play the lazy card.LOL

Rossy wrote: "I don't remove it, but i don't place it in the title anymore."

Same here. I think many librarians are doing this.

So, when you add a book to a series, if the series info isn't in the title it adds it? In the same format we've been using or something different?

No, it does not add it in the title field. She means it adds it on the book page.

Actually it adds it to the title field but in a different way. Like how you see it in gray and clickable. Also there are times when the series info is already in the title but when you add the book to the series page it turns gray....have no idea when or why it happens though.

It happens when the book is added to the series page. If the series info is not clickable, it needs to be added.

Rossy wrote: "Actually it adds it to the title field but in a different way."

Not the title field on the edit page.

True, not on the edit page but on the book page. Good catch Rivka!LOL

It's not the same field (even though it may look that way on the book page), that's why it doesn't show everywhere that the title does (like in the popular lists by year and month). The plan is that eventually it will appear to be in the same field, when it shows everywhere the title does, like it does on the book page now.

Also I think the series information isn't currently searchable, so being in the title field helps people find the correct books. The ideal would be to have the series information in the title on the most popular edition of each series book, because that is the one that shows on most lists. Although it's not as critical if the name of the series is the exact same as the first book.

I think that the las time there was a thread about it, the decision at the end was not to remove the info that it was included but not adding it any more (as Rossy and rivka say). I do the same too (because of laziness, of course ;) )

Anyone who still WANTS to keep adding it is of course quite welcome to do so.

Thanks Rivka, I occasionally still do, particularly if it helps when I'm combining stuff. Though I'm only doing the default book, not all the editions. LOL.

Which makes sense, as that's the one that will show up in searches, etc.

:)

Exactly

If the book is added to the series and the series name shows up and is clickable, is it necessary to have the series in the title? Personally I prefer not to have the series name included twice there.
I was thinking that I may have been one fo the people Moderatrix was referring to, but since I did not receive a private message I guess I wasn't!

Marilu wrote: "If the book is added to the series and the series name shows up and is clickable, is it necessary to have the series in the title? Personally I prefer not to have the series name included twice th..."

Please don't remove series information from the titles. The series field does not show on all lists, yet.

Deborah wrote: "Marilu wrote: "If the book is added to the series and the series name shows up and is clickable, is it necessary to have the series in the title? Personally I prefer not to have the series name in..."

Apparently, I did edit one last week, in which it showed up twice, and made it so it only appeared once but you re added it, to make it appear twice.
So, I need some clarification. I guess my question is why? Since, it is linked to the series, does it need to be there twice, and if so, why only on one edition, of one book in the series?

hopefully you take no offense as that is not the intent, just need to have it clarified, but re reading it seems like it can be taken in a way other than it was intended!

As for searchable series name... What about translations? If the series name is more complicated that "Main Character's Name" it is likely to get changed in translation. Now, even if I put the translated series name in the translated book title it is replaced by an original name in book view as soon as I add the book to a series...
What is the correct way of dealing with such cases?
Create a separate series with a translated title and add the translated books to both the original and translated series? Add to the translated one only? Do not create an entry for a translated series at all? Other?

In what instances is it shown twice? What I've seen is the grey, clickable series name on the book page and anything in the title on the search page.

willaful wrote: "In what instances is it shown twice? What I've seen is the grey, clickable series name on the book page and anything in the title on the search page."
One that I could think of off the top of my head is (and I am copying and pasting as it appears on the book page) (the series info in the 2nd set of brackets is clickable, the 1st is not)


The 8th Confession (Women's Murder Club, #8) (Women's Murder Club #8)

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41...


personally, I would like to remove that one, since it looks weird and it is not on every edition of that book, which just creates more confusion. The erst of the series is not like that either. Just this one specific book and edition.

Marilu wrote: "willaful wrote: "In what instances is it shown twice? What I've seen is the grey, clickable series name on the book page and anything in the title on the search page."
One that I could think of off..."

I think it is because someone put 8th Confession as the books original title on the book's details page.

Joanna wrote: "As for searchable series name... What about translations? If the series name is more complicated that "Main Character's Name" it is likely to get changed in translation. Now, even if I put the tran..."

The book should be merged with the original english release. Therefore regardless of which book you add to the series page, all book would show up as part of that series.

Marilu wrote: "Marilu wrote: "willaful wrote: "In what instances is it shown twice? What I've seen is the grey, clickable series name on the book page and anything in the title on the search page."

The 8th Confession (Women's Murder Club, #8) (Women's Murder Club #8) ..."

Fixed this one, it was just some odd spaces.

Deborah wrote: "Marilu wrote: "Marilu wrote: "willaful wrote: "In what instances is it shown twice? What I've seen is the grey, clickable series name on the book page and anything in the title on the search page."..."

ok. I see you switched it back to what I had done. I corrected the title field, then you " reverted " to what it was before I corrected it and now reverted back to what I had. So, did I do that correctly then? Sorry, I just want to be sure if it is correct before I do any edits on anything else.

It is, but that's when it looks strange right now.

Let's say I'm looking for "Dar mądrości" (it's a Polish translation of Dave Duncan's "The Coming of Wisdom). In the seartch results I see the title as I did enter it while adding the book:
Dar mądrości (Siódmy miecz, #2)
But when I click on it I see this:
Dar mądrości (Seventh Sword #2)
With the series part made clickable and the translated series name not visible in any way...

Marilu wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Marilu wrote: "Marilu wrote: "willaful wrote: "In what instances is it shown twice? What I've seen is the grey, clickable series name on the book page and anything in the title on t..."

Yes I used the undo to restore the series information you removed, but no I didn't revert it back, I didn't remove the series information from the title. If you go to the series page you will see it is still there. I just removed the final space and the one before the parenthesis, then put that space back. Now the data in the parenthesis doesn't show on the book page, but will show on most other pages.

Deborah wrote: "Marilu wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Marilu wrote: "Marilu wrote: "willaful wrote: "In what instances is it shown twice? What I've seen is the grey, clickable series name on the book page and anything in..."

When I saw the title was corrected to what I had, I said reverted, not even thinking about the undo feature (that I just noticed). Thanks for explaining how you did it. Now I will know how to do it if need be.

Joanna wrote: "It is, but that's when it looks strange right now.

Let's say I'm looking for "Dar mądrości" (it's a Polish translation of Dave Duncan's "The Coming of Wisdom). In the seartch results I see the tit..."

OK, I can't really do anything about the book page, but I added "Also known as Siódmy miecz in Polish" to the description on the series page.

Please click on the series name from the book page and see what you think of that. I know it's not a perfect solution, but it is something I could do now as a librarian.

Marilu wrote: "When I saw the title was corrected to what I had, I said reverted, not even thinking about the undo feature (that I just noticed). Thanks for explaining how you did it. Now I will know how to do it if need be. "

You're welcome, I know it's odd that a couple of spaces can make a difference, maybe it's really odd characters that don't display instead of real spaces.

Unfortunately, there's no way to translate the series names, which means that editions in every language are going to show the same series name, even if they ought to showing a translated series name. (And the same goes for other variations in series name.) What we're doing to work around it is what Deborah did, which is list the alternate series names in the series description so that at least they're only a click away. (This isn't searchable, though, which is another reason to leave those variant series names in the title field for now, until we have a better solution.)

And yeah, the parser -- the thing which recognizes parentheses in the title as something which should be hidden when there's actual series information available for the book -- can be awfully picky about what it recognizes sometimes!

Caveat: if the series numbering is different in translation/alternate version, a new series is created, like this:

* Tiger and Del
* Schwerttänzer-Zyklus

And it's not visible if you do an author search, either, so I'm still putting it in the title field.

Lindig wrote: "And it's not visible if you do an author search, either, so I'm still putting it in the title field."

Or on the popular lists by year and month. Or on the listopia lists.

Other than the above, it's a great idea :) (But limited, limited).

You could also enter it on the original title at the bottom of the editing page. It shows up like that.

True Rossy but it doesn't show up unless you're on the book page. Wouldn't help combining books.

I really dont like it when a name shows up like this:

Danse Macabre (Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter, #14)(Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter #14)

I think it looks silly... Are we able to take it out or does it have to stay there? Just a personal prefernce. Also, if we can take it out how do we do it?

It's only showing once, for me:

Danse Macabre (Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter #14)

Danse Macabre

Sorry, it must only do it on the edition I have...

Paperback, 384 pages
Published April 1st 2010 by Headline Book Publishing (first published February 4th 2006)
ISBN0755355415 (ISBN13: 9780755355419)

Because when I frist added the book it did have the double series but when I changed the edition it had the series twice.

Kittyt wrote: "I really dont like it when a name shows up like this:

Danse Macabre (Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter, #14)(Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter #14"

Fixed it. That happens when there is an extra space after the series information in the title field.

Not sure why it was doing that, but edited.

I've seen one or two with the same issue. Where was the space located exactly? That way i know how to fix it when i see it next time.

There was a space after the last parenthesis. Specifically ....

Danse Macabre (Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter, #14)^

where ^ indicates the space.

Sounds like the pattern matching algorithm needs to eliminate excess white spaces.

There are plenty of titles with an extra space that parse correctly.

Spaces are usually fine, but sometimes it only looks like a space. It's actually some other non-displaying character that we can't see. What we see is not always what the computer sees. It sometimes occurs before the opening parenthesis too, so I always delete that "space" and replace it with a space, as well as deleting any spaces at the end.

I guess I was being overly technical again. "White spaces" includes spaces, tabs, carriage returns, and line feeds.

Regular expressions are always tricky to get exactly right.