Terminalcoffee discussion

I find Twilight to be disturbing; the obsessive need they appear to feel for each other, how she "moves when he moves", the lack of individual identies., etc...Did I miss something with that series? Is it the fact that I am not the age group that it was aimed for? Honestly, I found the books and the little bit of the movies I saw to be disturbing. Anyone else?

The author repeatedly refers to Romeo and Juliet, and it's obvious that she has based her series on the forbidden love theme.

I read all four books, one right after the other. I couldn't put them down. Then I felt kind of dirty, like I needed to cry in the corner of the shower. I found the last book to be appalling, expecially the bit about the baby being born. I thought it was overly graphic.

What I find disturbing is the plethora of copy cat books that are out there aimed at teenagers. Suddenly, the vampire has become a romantic icon, when the vampire is anything but. When you look at the fact that the vampire legend is based on Vlad Tepes who was known for impaling his victims - men, women, children, even babies and animals, you have to acknowledge the horror behind the creature.

I've watched programs on tv where young adults emulate being vampires. Some have dental work to permanently affix fangs. Others are using razor blades to draw blood and are actually drinking blood. I can't help but think this is unhealthy, both physically and emotionally.

Suefly, I also find it to be disturbing. I haven't read the books, but I find everything I've heard about them thematically icky.

Okay, I think I've said this somewhere else on TC but I really have a problem with this. Edward is 104 years old. It makes his obsession with a teenager really creepy to me, a form of pedophilia. Just because his body doesn’t age doesn’t mean he isn’t cradle robbing. If you accept it’s okay because he looks young, then is it okay for pervs who look young to continue?

Agreed completely, Kate.

I grew up with Ann Rice, so I was curious about the Twilight books, but after reading/skimming the first one, I just found the theme of their version of 'love' to be a bit too much. I was actually disturbed by it, in as much as it appeared that she was advocating the total loss of self (in this case, the 17 year old Bella) even before she has had a chance to know who she is, or develop a self. I suppose I was bringing to the reading some of my own teenage/young adult experiences to the tale, but I found the books rather stalker-ish (I agree, Kate, that Edward was way too old for her) and obsessive, not romantic and innocent. I just could not embrace books, as I found the rather heavy-handed theme to be that love is not a give and take, but an all or nothing bargain. Either you fully submit or you will die and wither away, because you are nothing with out HIM. (I do recall that Edward tried to leave, and Bella was the one who had the break down)? Nice message...you, as a young woman, are only as good as the handsome man next to you, but if he leaves...

Sorry for the vent, but the books bother me. :)

Suefly and Kate, have you seen this website? It makes me smile: http://reasoningwithvampires.tumblr.c...

I have had this conversation with my niece, who loves these books. She came right back at me with reasonably good arguments, especially for an 11-year-old. I was proud of her. But I do keep telling her, just remember, this is a story! Don't ever let a guy treat you like that!

True, Dracula does, and I think that's one way not to get too bent out of shape about it. It is funny, though.

Sarah Pi wrote: "Suefly and Kate, have you seen this website? It makes me smile: http://reasoningwithvampires.tumblr.c..."

Thanks, I will check it out!

BunWat wrote: "I think there is a creepy subtext, then again its a vampire story, so isn't creepy subtext a given? I mean - Dracula doesn't have a damn creepy subtext??"

I think the subtext here is extra-creepy because of the romanticized obsession.

This site points out all the mormonism behind Twilight and is quite funny...this might be where you read about the similarities between Edward and the statue of Joseph Smith Bun.

http://stoney321.livejournal.com/3171...

Sarah Pi wrote: "Suefly and Kate, have you seen this website? It makes me smile: http://reasoningwithvampires.tumblr.c..."

Ilove the site.

King Dinösaur wrote: "Should not be here...
Should not be here...
Should not be here..."

...waiting for the head explosion.

Who is gonna clean up after that?

and some bleach

But what's really creepy is that this romantic obsession is supposed to be desirable. In Dracula it's supposed to be creepy. In Twilight, it's supposed to be Twoo Wub.

Yes, that's creepy, but isn't the photo from "Scanners?"

Rebecca wrote: "But what's really creepy is that this romantic obsession is supposed to be desirable. In Dracula it's supposed to be creepy. In Twilight, it's supposed to be Twoo Wub."

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. I don't consider the creepiness in Dracula to be subtext or to be romanticized. It's a horror novel, as opposed to a romance novel.

Kate wrote: "Okay, I think I've said this somewhere else on TC but I really have a problem with this. Edward is 104 years old. It makes his obsession with a teenager really creepy to me, a form of pedophilia. J..."

Well yeah, but
A. Suspend your disbelief. It is a monster story.
B. Edward, like all vampires died when he became a vampire. He isn't really 104 years old. He is the corpse of a 15 year old or whatever he was before death.

C. I loathe the books for their shitty writing and only got through the first two.

Y'know, part of the problem for me here may be that I'm arguing about a book I haven't read and a book I haven't read for twenty years. I think I can happily concede that both are creepy.

Yay Spike!

Still, I confess that at this point in life I wish I'd hit upon an idea for a book series that would make 50% of teenagers, pre-teens and grandmas flip their lids and make me a millionaire. Mr. Devil, where are you?

Just make sure you ask for a good copy editor too - I think that's where Ms. Meyer went wrong when she made her bargain.

thats funny.... my cousin is a twilight freak

Yeah, you're right. I'd be okay with people hating my books for their content, but hating them for bad writing would bring me shame!

Bernie, my niece loves 'em. I took her to the book store the other day so she could give me some ideas of what to get her for Christmas. Almost nothing but vampire books!

Sally wrote: "Kate wrote: "Okay, I think I've said this somewhere else on TC but I really have a problem with this. Edward is 104 years old. It makes his obsession with a teenager really creepy to me, a form of ..."

No,no,absolutely.
a. It's a romance novel
b. He's had 104 years of experience in the world. That makes him 104 years old.
c. The writing sucks!

I have a crush on Spike now, too.


*sigh*

Kate wrote: "Sally wrote: "Kate wrote: "Okay, I think I've said this somewhere else on TC but I really have a problem with this. Edward is 104 years old. It makes his obsession with a teenager really creepy to ...

"No,no,absolutely.
a. It's a romance novel
b. He's had 104 years of experience in the world. That makes him 104 years old.
c. The writing sucks! "


NO way man!
A. It is maybe a romance but it is a romance about a MONSTER and a CHILD (basically) so it is supposed to be creepy.
B. See A. But also. He isn't any years old. He's dead.
C. I concur. I hate the books.

Sally wrote: "Kate wrote: "Sally wrote: "Kate wrote: "Okay, I think I've said this somewhere else on TC but I really have a problem with this. Edward is 104 years old. It makes his obsession with a teenager real..."

a. I think we can agree it's a creepy novel.
b. We'll have to agree to disagree as I see any time spent in your body aware of your existence as being alive and therefore as gaining life experience.
c. Total agreement.

I definitely weigh in on the side that age is determined by experience, not how long your cells divided. It's not a physical thing, it's the wisdom gained in 100 years vs somebody who's only beginning to understand the world and herself. I just don't see how she could hold his interest.

Rebecca wrote: "I just don't see how she could hold his interest."

she has very tasty blood.

Oh, yeah, I think my niece's explanation was that he's intrigued with her because she's the only one whose mind he can't read, or something like that.

i haven't read any of the books, btw.

I haven't either. I did see the first movie.

Ok, I watched Eclipse a couple nights back. The romantic scenes are mind-blowingly boring. They just sort of...go on...forever. The "I want to wait to have sex" articulation from a vampire is just...I don't know.

Some of the fight scenes were pretty good, though. It seemed like two different movies.

I agree though, that if you think of Edward, as, like, 90, the whole story is a little more creepy.

BunWat wrote: "Yeah, I'm looking at you, Anne Rice."

Wasn't it one of the Anne Rice books that had the little girl that got made into a vampire and then was completely frustrated as she got "older" but couldn't do much of what she was interested in trying because she had a baby body? It seems Anne thinks vampires "age" -- even if some of them don't mature emotionally.

Same with Let The Right One In, I think.

I remember when I was sixteen and a friend of mine - age 36 - said to me "I can tell I'm getting older because I met the most gorgeous 20 year old the other day and couldn't find a thing to talk with him about so I just left him alone."

That's what I think of when I see 100 year old vampires making moony eyes at teenagers. I mean, sure she's pretty, but do you really think she'll be much of a conversationalist?

Buffy and her vampires are a different story. She has layers, as she would say.

BunWat wrote: "Some of her layers are crunchy. Also there's a nougatty center. Angel is a perfect example of angst boy lurking soulfully in the corner like an emo teen. I think what with all the evil taking up..."

And she has the weight of the world on her shoulders, so she's not sitting around mooning back.

I concur with KD. Wholeheartedly. Unfeeling monsters. They are dead. They do not feel, they do not love, they do not long to wear shiny clothes.

Sarah Pi wrote: "I remember when I was sixteen and a friend of mine - age 36 - said to me "I can tell I'm getting older because I met the most gorgeous 20 year old the other day and couldn't find a thing to talk wi..."

Yeah, that's how it went during my brief career as a cougar.

Rebecca wrote: "Sarah Pi wrote: "I remember when I was sixteen and a friend of mine - age 36 - said to me "I can tell I'm getting older because I met the most gorgeous 20 year old the other day and couldn't find ..."

Well, if we're gonna go that direction, during my cougar phase, I wasn't really looking for conversation.

Rebecca wrote: "Yeah, that's how it went during my brief career as a cougar..."

Now that's a career I can get behind.

Kate wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "Sarah Pi wrote: "I remember when I was sixteen and a friend of mine - age 36 - said to me "I can tell I'm getting older because I met the most gorgeous 20 year old the other day an..."

The sex wasn't much to speak of either.

That summer I was dating somebody 22 years younger than me and somebody else 17 years older. The older one was superior in every way, including in bed. Blew the little boy out of the water.

I'm like that Little Esther song, "I like my men like I like my whiskey: aged and mellow."

Well, not TOO mellow.