Middle East/North African Lit discussion

Hi, I'm Cheryl. I come from the UK but I now live in Canada. I'm very interested in the MENA region and I'm happy that I found this group!

Welcome, Cheryl!

Thank you Melanie!

I'm new too, Cheryl. At least new to the group.... Have you written something?

Hi Charles. I haven't written anything.

I learned long ago that when you write something, even an essay -- with a view to being completely, scientifically accurate, and not poetic --- it helps your mind read more carefully. You then begin to question the multitude of assumptions that are hidden in almost every paragraph written... even in sentences. Also, so much of what is written is 'space-filling' words, or like a conversation in which the speaker says, "uh... uh..."

So, I would suggest that to read analytically, it helps you develop your mind when you write something... even a paragraph or two about something... every week. It 'tones' the mental muscles, and compels you to be precise as a writer ... and to demand precision as a reader.

That's my philosophical tidbit for the day. LOL

Welcome. I would offer you a drink, but I am new to this group too. But, you can take a seat. LOL

The literature of the Middle East has influenced Western culture enormously, particularly the religious traditions. Personally, I prefer the rationality of the ancient Greeks rather than the various 'deities of the desert' with all of their irrational beliefs. That's why I have written several books on this subject, the latest one mentioned above, which also contains brief discussions of Middle Eastern literary traditions.

What are a couple of your favorite books?

Welcome, Anasylvia

'deities of the desert' with all of their irrational beliefs ????!!!!!!!

ReemK10 (Paper Pills) wrote: "'deities of the desert' with all of their irrational beliefs ????!!!!!!!"

I, too, found that to be problematic--to say the least.

Well, Tamara and Reem10, if you know anything about Middle East history, you would know there were hundreds of deities in the Middle East. Some were major gods and other were minor gods. Some were gods of fecundity, fertility, water, and agriculture; others were gods of the sky, like the moon god, the sun god, and the planets (which were regarded by some as gods).

The Egyptians had the most sophisticated approach, as they did in many things.

Most people don't know it, but the Hebrews had many gods. That's why the first commandment in the Decalogue is "... thou shalt not have strange gods before me." They settled on Yahweh, the storm god, when they embarked upon their military expansion, and turned Yahweh into the 'God of War' -- which they celebrated in the opening verses of "The Song of Moses" .... "Our Lord is a warrior. Our Lord is a man of war."

If you are puzzled by the expression "deities of the desert", you better learn some history.

you better learn some history? ouch!

Well, that's why people are in this group.... to learn.

We learn by telling the truth, not by the current American academic approach of pretending that everyone is entitled to his/her own facts so that no one feels bad.

So, for better or for worse, you can always count on me to be very precise and never have any politically-correct pretensions. (I tell my sons that the term 'politically-correct' is an inherent deceit, because if something is 'correct' it becomes a lie if you add the adjective 'political'.)

BTW, I touch very lightly on these historical deities in my book "Prisoners of History", which, although concerning the plight of Palestinian children, has the three journalists discussing some of the religious background.

Having been in journalism and knowing journalists around the world, I know how they become very philosophical after a few glasses of wine. I learned much from those free-thinking discussions with journalists in different countries. You'd be surprised at their views!

Well, Charles, although I don't profess to know as much about history as you do, I do know that a lot of the deities from ancient Greece were "borrowed" from ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia.

Just to name a few examples, the goddess Maat in the Ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead is transformed into Themis in Ancient Greece. Maat holds the scale of justice. As you approach the throne of Osiris, a feather is put on the scale to weigh your deeds. Depending on which side of the scale is heavier, you either get to join the gods or you are eaten up by Ammut.

And then there is Innana of Ancient Mesopotamia. She is associated with eros, fecundity, and fertility. She is transformed into Aphrodite in ancient Greece.

Some scholars argue that the whole concept of monotheism emerged from the Enuma Elish (The Babylonian Creation) when Marduk, one of the many gods, promised to kill Tiamat, the mother goddess, but only if the rest of the gods agree to make him the king of the gods. After he kills her, he appropriates the Tablets of Destiny and proceeds to allocate different gods to perform different functions in regulating the universe. But there is no question who is in charge. All the gods bow down and worship Marduk, an activity that was celebrated annually at the New Year festival in Babylon.

I just think it is important to remember that there was a process of syncretization that occurred with different cultures influencing each other. Even in Plutarch's Moralia, the deities of ancient Egypt are conflated with those of ancient Greece, occasionally using the names synonymously and attributing the deeds of Egyptian deities to their counterparts in ancient Greece.

Well, Tamara, we can agree on several things. First of all, there were many gods and goddesses who 'evolved' and/or were 'adopted' by other cultures, or 'immigrated' to different societies. It's hard to know for sure how, when, or why it all happened in each case.

Among the things that are interesting to me is that the gods of the ancient Greeks reflected the variations of the human psyche, had different personalities (male and female), and often competed with each other --- none were ever absolute, and they were all subject to Fate.

The Greek deities reflected rational concerns and competing mental and moral issues, as mankind struggled to understand its existence through the stories of their gods.

On the other hand, the Middle Eastern deities evolved into monotheism, were always supreme, did not tolerate any competing gods -- and their chief disciples came with 'written
instructions', and said that people would be punished for all eternity if those directions were not followed.

Thus, the religions of the Middle East made it simple: they evolved into monotheism, began to regard themselves as the 'true' religion for mankind, and evolved into a psychology and policy of intolerance of any other deities or beliefs.... i.e. the psychology of the Hebrews, the Christians, and the Muslims.

While the Greek deities explored philosophy and psychology in an attempt to conquer their own personalities, the 'deities of the desert' became militaristic and began conquering their neighbors. Because it's easier to fight than to think, the 'deities of the desert' developed more followers... for centuries.

That may explain why the Middle East, despite being the bloodiest spot on earth for millennia, the spot with the history of hatred, the cradle of Western religion, is curiously called 'the holy land.'

Welcome, Rana! Congratulations on your first book.

Congratulations on your first book, Rana, and welcome. What is your book about?

Okay, I read a brief description on Amazon. It sounds like a lovely book.

Although I have been to many of the Muslim countries, I only passed through Turkey years ago. I never made a point of just going there. However, one of my sons spent a summer in Bursa on a cultural program, and, of course, he visited Istanbul.

He also spent a summer working for a Turkish educational group in Washington, DC.

The Turkey-Syria situation is quite complicated at the moment.

I intend to go.... sometime soon.

Given your background, it is probably difficult for you to avoid political issues. But, one must always maintain a clear perspective.

Good luck.

It had been a while for me ! (sorry)

Welcome to all our new members , I hope you like it here with us and find what you seek:) we hope to see you around active and sharing your thoughts with us .

If you are an author you are welcome to discuss your book in the authors corner :

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...

Members who were encouraged by meeting you here would be interested in your book and follow you there , otherwise please refrain from continuing any debates in here as it is not the place for it .

* Our dear members , We are very happy to have you all with us here , please revise our group rules before any new posts , we are proud to maintain this group as friendly as it has always been so you can all share your thoughts comfortably , I apologize if anyone felt otherwise and we promise to keep the atmosphere this way :)

Wow! I have not been in this thread for a while.
Welcome new people!
Charles, sorry but your sweeping generalizations don't sit well with me. FYI she might be too modest to mention it, but Tamara is a university professor of Mythology. Also there are people in this group who are from the countries where these "deities of the desert" come from.
I'm not a history expert but what you say seems wrong. Weren't the ancient Greeks also some times militaristic and conquered their neighbours? And are there also not fanatic Hindus and Buddhists too? The way you talk makes me uncomfortable.

Thank you, NileDaughter.

My concerns about data privacy and leaving a very light internet footprint of few personal revelations-- one that cannot be connected to my IRL identity -- leads me to rarely post any content at "welcome and introduce yourself " threads in my groups. Also while I'm comfortable talking books and politics, talking about me tends to make the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

OTOH, this is one of three groups where an introduction probably makes sense at this point. I am an American, born in the North (NY) and living in the South (North Carolina), an undergrad English Lit and Psychology double major, a transactional lawyer by profession. My interest in MENA literature comes from several sources and experiences.

My husband is the proud son of a Lebanese mother. Her people were/are Maronite Christians. I also had the good fortune to meet and develop a close friendship with a young man from Persia in 1979 when we were both 18. Subsequently, I spent ten years in D.C., in a job that brought me into daily contact with many Embassy personnel and extended family members from MENA countries, and first generation MENA immigrants.

I continue to be awed by the knowledge and breadth of informed expertise in this group, and its members' ability to discuss challenging topics in a thoughtful manner.

Carol wrote: "My concerns about data privacy and leaving a very light internet footprint of few personal revelations-- one that cannot be connected to my IRL identity -- leads me to rarely visit "welcome and int..."

Carol, we're in a few of the same groups. It's nice to learn a little about your background. I'm glad you decided to share it here.

Tamara wrote: "Carol wrote: "My concerns about data privacy and leaving a very light internet footprint of few personal revelations-- one that cannot be connected to my IRL identity -- leads me to rarely visit "w..."

Thanks, Tamara :)

Thank you Carol for sharing :) I am so glad to have you with us ! and thank you for all what you are doing here !

Wow Carol, your background is so fascinating! :) I completely understand your data privacy concerns (I’m the same!).

Sofia wrote: "Wow Carol, your background is so fascinating! :) I completely understand your data privacy concerns (I’m the same!)."

Thank you, Sofia. (I'm still not sharing my thumbprint with Apple. No way. )

Hi everyone! I'm Amira from Egypt.

Basically, I'm an author and an avid reader :) I write in English fiction and can't wait to get to know you all!

See you around :)
Amira Awaad

Welcome, Amira!

Hi everyone!

I'm Rokia, and I'm Egyptian American. I'm also an avid reader, and I've been interested in finding more books that have MENA in their theme, especially written from authors who are from MENA. I'm really glad to have stumbled across this group! I've added so many of the books here to my to-read list so this is exciting!

Welcome!

Welcome, Amira and Rokia ! :D

Welcome Amira and Rokia!

Hello, I'm from Copenhagen but read a lot of ME litterature and also travel a lot to the ME. Maria

Maria wrote: "Hello, I'm from Copenhagen but read a lot of ME litterature and also travel a lot to the ME. Maria"

Which countries in the ME?

Egypt, Dubai primarily but also places like Morocco and Lebanon I enjoy a lot.

Charles wrote: "Maria wrote: "Hello, I'm from Copenhagen but read a lot of ME litterature and also travel a lot to the ME. Maria"

Which countries in the ME?"

I've spent a lot of time in the ME, so I was curious which countries you visited. That will obviously affect your perspective. Thanks.

Welcome, Maria!

Thank you! :)

Melanie wrote: "Welcome, Maria!"

Somewhat. I also visited Palestine (West Bank) in 2016 and went into Israel as well.

Charles wrote: "I've spent a lot of time in the ME, so I was curious which countries you visited. That will obviously affect your perspective. Thanks."

I was in Israel about 25 times, doing business, promoting a peace project, and researching my first book on the subject of religion and war. I have many high-ranking Israeli friends. I once had a private meeting with Ehud Olmert, the former mayor of Jerusalem and Prime Minister.

I was also in Palestine about 10 times, and have many Palestinian friends. In the past I even had two private meetings with Yasser Arafat.

I know that area well, which is why I recently wrote a book on it called "Prisoners of History: The Story of Dalia, a Palestinian"

Have you written anything about the ME? It's a complicated area, full of historical and religious tensions. There's plenty to write about.

Sounds very fascinating! I found when I visited that most people really wanted to live together and that what I had thought about the place was really put to shame.

I'm not a writer at all! You make me smile. Is this a writer's group?!! I didn't get that impression.

What exactly took you to the ME besides the peace project? And what was that about?

You sound like you have had a very interesting life Charles. I'm fairly new to Goodreads but I had a look at your book. Do you have two profiles on here?

With your experience you should definitely read the book I've just read, called the Palace of Angels. The author, Mohammed Massoud Morsi, is a former journalist and photographer and it looks as if you two might agree on quite a few things. The book deals with a Palestinian man and an Israeli soldier who fall in love, and a lot more than that. His other novels are very good too.

Thanks for the chat Charles, I will definitely check out your book.




Charles wrote: "I was in Israel about 25 times, doing business, promoting a peace project, and researching my first book on the subject of religion and war. I have many high-ranking Israeli friends. I once had a p..."

Maria wrote: "Hello, I'm from Copenhagen but read a lot of ME litterature and also travel a lot to the ME. Maria"

Welcome Maria I hope you will like it here ! :)

By the way ; It is not a writers' group , it is for everyone who is interested in reading from or about the zone :)

Thanks!! :)

Niledaughter wrote: "Maria wrote: "Hello, I'm from Copenhagen but read a lot of ME litterature and also travel a lot to the ME. Maria"

Welcome Maria I hope you will like it here ! :)

By the way ; It is not a writers..."

Maria wrote: "I'm not a writer at all!"

Niledaughter wrote: ".By the way ; It is not a writers' group , it is for everyone who is interested in reading from or about the zone :)
.."

I'm not a writer either! One of the things I find cool about these Goodreads groups is that are are many writers in them!

Hi there, I am a PhD student at the University of St Andrews and my thesis is going to look at contemporary Turkish literature, issues of gender, culture and it's relationship to politics, and ideas of nationhood/building and identity. I am seeking any advice about current popular authors, themes, or even different genres that are currently being translated into English. I am familiar with Elif Shafak and Orhan Pamuk - The Bastard of Istanbul is one of my favourite books and was my introduction to Turkish literature. I am also going to be reading Middle Eastern fiction in general as well to broaden my understanding of the issues beign tackled in contemporary fiction. Thanks :-)

You might like Halide Edib and the folk work, Beauty and Love.

Katy wrote: "Hi there, I am a PhD student at the University of St Andrews and my thesis is going to look at contemporary Turkish literature, issues of gender, culture and it's relationship to politics, and idea..."

You might also like the short stories of Alifa Rifaat (Egypt) Distant View of a Minaret and Other Stories and the novels of Alia Mamdouh (Iraq). I've read Naphtalene: A Novel of Baghdad and The Loved Ones: A Modern Arabic Novel, both of which were quite good.