SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

I've never watched much TV, but a year ago I tried Lost and liked it. Wasn't completely bowled over, but liked it well enough to eventually watch the whole run on ABC's website. But I haven't heard of any show which sounds like what I'm looking for, which is basically three criteria:

Serialization - What I have the hardest time finding is anything with an ongoing plot over the whole series. I watched the first four episodes of Firefly, and the main reason I stopped was that the episodes were too self-contained. Even part of the first season of Lost gave me doubts.

No humanoid aliens - Another thing is I want to avoid humanoid aliens. At least if there's some consistently adhered-to explanation, like that aliens are actually humans transplanted from Earth or vice versa. Babylon 5 sounds good on serialization, but I've avoided it because of this.

Continuity - I'd also want a show to be at least about as self-consistent over time as Lost, and hopefully better. Of course it's hard to see how they could meet the serialization criterion without some continuity.

I don't know if there's actually any other TV show yet made that satisfies all my pickiness, but if anyone has any ideas now or in the future I'd love to hear them.

Are you speaking specifically of only science-fiction or fantasy shows?

I don't know, if you gave up on Firefly (I mean, "Serenity" (the pilot)! Great stuff, I urge you to check out "Out of Gas" and "Objects in Space".), I'm not sure there's hope for you. ;P

Babylon 5 is a good one but unfortunately you've already dismissed it.

One question, do humanoid aliens have to have originated on Earth? Couldn't we be transplanted by some alien culture that once seeded the galaxy, hence the similarity in physical structures? Babylon 5 does play around with those ideas.

What about Fringe? Except for the first part of the first season, I understand there's a consistent storyline. You do have to get over the first set of episodes, though.

There are humanoid.. somethings, I think they're cyborgs or something though, not aliens.

Have you tried the recent Battlestar Galactica series?

Maybe The Walking Dead, Caprica, Torchwood?

Silvio wrote: "I've never watched much TV, but a year ago I tried Lost and liked it. Wasn't completely bowled over, but liked it well enough to eventually watch the whole run on ABC's website. But I haven't heard..."

The Lost Room is very good, if limited. I just saw an episode of Being Human which looks like it has a good serial quality to it. If your willing to look beyond SF, try Burn Notice, which has individual adventures and an overarching larger plot that continues throughout. Buffy is much the same in that respect, most of the seasons have a Big Bad and a major confrontation they work toward, but Burn Notice has a n arc that continues over seasons.

IMO, Burn Notice is overall incredibly standalone though.

I was wondering what your beef specifically with standalone-ness is, Silvio? I find it really interesting when TV shows weave arc and standalone storylines together, and I'd argue the medium's great strength.

Buffy was always best when it balanced this (see seasons two and three)did this & its weakest when it didn't (the painfully boring arc seventh season and the Monster-of-the-Week first season)... though it's spinoff Angel had a very serialized fourth season (contentious, but my favorite).

I agree with Battlestar Galactica* sounds like what you're looking for. I think overall if you're looking for a very serialized story, shows which are really miniseries and shows which are limited to short runs/seasons (read: often cable shows and British shows) are the way to go.

*though admittedly I gave up on it in the third season for all the 'philosophical' padding stuff and the miserable-ism. But hey, you like Lost, so the philosophical padding should be right up your alley!

I don't want to say you're out of luck, but...well, even the most serialized shows have standalone episodes.

A great example is Supernatural. There is an overarching story that runs in the background throughout the series and is incorporated into most episodes in some way. However, most of the episodes are largely standalone, but that doesn't mean they are bad. I recently discovered this show and have pounded through 3 seasons very quickly. Personally, I highly recommend it.

I agree that Angel and BSG would be good series to try out as well, but I'll also suggest Alias. Alias was a pretty cool spy series that J.J. Abrams created before Lost. The first two seasons are very good and incredibly serialized, but, based on your criteria, you'll probably need to give up after that.

Kaion wrote: "I find it really interesting when TV shows weave arc and standalone storylines together, and I'd argue the medium's great strength."

I guess it just feels artificial to me. What draws me to TV is that the length of a TV series or miniseries is so far beyond that of a movie that it can fit in more detail.

Kaion wrote: "shows which are really miniseries "

Marc wrote: "The Lost Room is very good, if limited."

I actually saw The Lost Room too and I liked it really well! I agree, miniseries are a good bet.

Ala wrote: "Have you tried the recent Battlestar Galactica series?"

That's another one that sounded good in a lot of ways. I avoided it because it's a remake, which I would feel guilty about watching because I'd hate there to be a remake of something I liked. Also, while looking for info on that, I ran across spoilers about the ending, which sounded like it would have ruined the show for me - the ending itself, I mean, not the spoilers. Sounded great otherwise, though.

Elizabeth wrote: "Babylon 5 is a good one but unfortunately you've already dismissed it.

One question, do humanoid aliens have to have originated on Earth? Couldn't we be transplanted by some alien culture that o..."

If human beings and aliens were all seeded from one planet, Le Guin Hainish-style, that would work too. If Babylon 5 has something along those lines, maybe I shouldn't write it off after all.

Kaion wrote: "Are you speaking specifically of only science-fiction or fantasy shows?

I don't know, if you gave up on Firefly (I mean, "Serenity" (the pilot)! Great stuff, as well as "Out of Gas" and "Objects i..."

Yeah, I'm looking specifically for science fiction/fantasy.

The new remade BSG beat the pants off the original.

Jackie wrote: "The new remade BSG beat the pants off the original."

It was a fantastic series, Jackie. It hooked me in and held my interest from beginning to end.

Good enough that I bought it and watched the series over again on a butt-busting couch-potato 4-day marathon.

Jackie: Agreed on BSG! A good place to start would be the first four hour pilot. Then if Kaion likes it, start watching the series!

Andromeda was really good too. Had a continuous story and underlying theme throughout amidst the individual stories of each episode.

How early on does Babylon 5 bring up their explanation of seeding the galaxy? If it's early I might try watching the first few episodes and see how I like it as I did with Firefly.

Silvio,

Science fiction is expensive to film. Hence, bipedal aliens with funny foreheads and or ears ala Star Trek, puppets in Andromeda and no aliens in Firefly. I appreciate it in a novel when an author makes the alien truly foreign, but on tv I'm over it. Sometimes, the foreigness comes from the actor, like Elim Garak in Star Trek: Deep Space 9. A Stitch in Time is written by the actor who played Garak, first as an acting tool, but getting to know this very different man is a treat.

Julia wrote: puppets in Andromeda

Please refresh my memory, I don't remember puppets in Andromeda. Farscape, yes. I have a strange memory, bits and pieces.

Kevin Sorbo? Totally a puppet.

But a hot puppet, LOL

A few good scifi/fantasy shows:

Supernatural: First two seasons have more self contained episodes, serialization becomes more obvious in the later seasons. Really good on the continuity.

Haven: Nice new show with an overarching mystery.

Sanctuary: Less serialized then the other shows, but still good. Has some humanoid creatures, but no aliens.

Eureka: Comic scifi. Seasons usualy have an overarching storyline, but itisn't very serialised. Has no aliens or humanoid creatures.

Is Friday the 13th available on DVD? Those were great horror-fantasy shows, nothing to do with the fellow with the hockey mask (unless it was bought at Vendredi Antiques).

Yes, Friday the 13th was a good show, I caught some of it on late night reruns and I wasn't anything like I expected. It was so much better!

Julia wrote: " no aliens in Firefly..."

And I didn't mind that solution. Actually, I thought Firefly, the episodes I watched anyway, was pretty good at not having anything blatantly unrealistic science-wise. (Especially since I tried it only one or two months after first being exposed to Star Wars!) With more tightly connected episodes I'm sure I would have liked it, and as it is I did like the movie Serenity.

Indeed, the practicalities of TV sci-fi are against me. But since I've already had one pleasant surprise, who knows? There might be another.

facepalm

Jackie wrote: I don't remember puppets in Andromeda.

Kevin Sorbo was a very nice loking puppet, and the guy who played Tyr Anasazi was even better looking!

Of course I did mean Farscape...

Julia, the stupid puppet in Farscape is the main reason I can't stand that show. And he's not even a nice puppet. LOL

OMG Tyr Anasazi! Oh yeah, that is one fine specimen of man. I guess the Neitschians managed to create the perfect man after all.

I'm just getting into Dead Like Me, about a young lady trying to figure out her life after her death. She's employed by Death as a grim reaper, a collector of souls. Wonderfalls was a great show, but it didn't get serialized until after it was cancelled, when the producers created a story arc out of the last several episodes to complete the story.

Not science fiction, well maybe it is, alongside brilliantly-lit fantasy and horror is Pushing Daisies.

Another of my faves, created by the same guy who created Wonderfalls.

What's Wonderfalls about?

It's the story of a young gen-Why slacker who gets sucked up into the service of the gods, while working at a gift shop ion Niagara Falls called Wonderfalls. The stories use creatures with mouths to give her instructions, but the instructions are cryptic and have unusual side-effects. It was created by Bryan Fuller, who also did Dead Like Me and Pushing Daisies. I'm going to have to look up his other shows now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderfalls

Thanks, that sounds like it could be fun.

Jackie wrote: "Thanks, that sounds like it could be fun."

It is, I bought the complete DVD set years ago. Some of the eps are better than others of course, but the concluding story arc is great.

Betelgeuze wrote: "A few good scifi/fantasy shows:

Supernatural: First two seasons have more self contained episodes, serialization becomes more obvious in the later seasons. Really good on the continuity.

Haven: N..."

Betelgeuze - I enjoy Sanctuary very much and was pleasantly surprised by Haven, it was great. Have you seen Lost Girl? It's very good too.

It's not sci fi but it is darn good, especially if you like Gumshoe/mystery. Everyone laughs at me and then I make them watch the first episode and they are hooked. Check out Veronica Mars.

Also highly recommend the new BSG and Dexter.

"Serialization - What I have the hardest time finding is anything with an ongoing plot over the whole series."

Carnivale: is an epic story about the battle between good and evil, it has supernatural elements to it. The story is coherent from the very first episode in season 1 to the last episode in season 2. This is a great story that is made by HBO so you know it's made from the best. It's dark and exciting and when you start watching you can't stop til you are finished. Enjoy watching one of the best tv shows of all time, Carnivale.

Battlestar Galactica is as previously mentioned definetely worth watching too.

BSG, Dollhouse, Fringe, Dexter, and if mini series are ok I thought the Dune mini series while not perfect was very well done.

Machavelli, from imdb's info Carnivale sounds pretty good. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0319969/p... Before I try to find it, can you tell me how heavily 'god's will' is involved?

Elizabeth wrote: "Babylon 5 is a good one but unfortunately you've already dismissed it..."

You really should give Babylon 5 another try. It is one of the all time best space SF TV series. And, not all the aliens were humanoid. Granted the main characters all had 2 leg, 2 arms, a head, bilateral symmetry and walked upright, but many were definitely NOT human or even humanoid, IMO and a few were distinctly not humanoid at all.

See Civilizations in Babylon 5

Jackie wrote: "Machavelli, from imdb's info Carnivale sounds pretty good. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0319969/p... Before I try to find it, can you tell me how heavily 'god's will' is involved?"

God is not involved in the story, even though the priest talks about god, there is no "divine" intervention, if you know what i mean. Everyone that likes fantasy will definetely love this, i have watched a lot of tv shows and this is by far the best one out there. The story is complicated and surpising, you won't be able to guess which way the story is headed, that i can promise you. Buy it i can assure you, you won't regret it.

Machavelli,
Excellent! Thanks for the info. I'm going to look for it right now.

Kernos wrote: "See Civilizations in Babylon 5"

Well, it does sound like there are non-humanoid aliens, but also humanoid ones. I'm still curious about the possible common ancestry of humanoids that Elizabeth mentioned. Unless it's the one mentioned in the Wikipedia article under "Centauri Republic," it might break down that barrier for me.

Machavelli wrote: ""Serialization - What I have the hardest time finding is anything with an ongoing plot over the whole series."

Carnivale: is an epic story about the battle between good and evil, it has supernat..."

That sounds like the sort of thing I'm looking for. I'll check on it.

I just blew through 3 seasons of Sons of Anarchy in under a week. Serialized and totally fantastic. Not scifi but if you like anti-heroes and violence, then this is a must-see.

Silvio wrote: "Kernos wrote: "See Civilizations in Babylon 5"

I'm still curious about the possible common ancestry of humanoids that Elizabeth mentioned...."

I've watched the series 5 or 6 times and I do not remember any common ancestry except for that between Humans and the Mimbari. The thread during which this is discovered is quite interesting, I think. But the other species are not related to humans, IIRC and some could not be—not like in SG1.

Also there is a big change in the series between season 1 and 2. Season 1 premiered way back when I was on CompuServe and I did not like it at all. I did not like the actor playing the main character (Michael O'Hare - very stiff and unappealing to me) or how Ivanova acted hypermasculine among other things. I kept saying that a strong woman could also be feminine. The creator, JMS (J. Michael Straczynski) was on the forum and everything I did not like changed for the better in season 2. I like to think all my bitching made a difference. But watching the series multiple times, the 1st season makes sense in a prequel sort of way.

In many ways Babylon 5 is like a 4 year space SF miniseries.

Six Feet Under is another favorite serialized TV show.

The Tudors was quite good and is available from Netflix Watch Instantly.

Caprica just finished, the first half of the season is available on DVD.

The Tudors was good.

The United States of Tara. True Blood. Six Feet Under. All good serialized shows.

Kernos wrote: "Silvio wrote: "Kernos wrote: "See Civilizations in Babylon 5"

I'm still curious about the possible common ancestry of humanoids that Elizabeth mentioned...."

I've watched the series 5 or 6 times ..."

Thanks for the info, Kernos.

If you want good tv shows that are not fantasy or scifi i will recommend.

The Wire.

A Drama show about the criminals,drugaddicts, police,politicians and everyday people of Baltimore. A city with about 300 murders a year. The only show that lets you get to know the "bad guys". This is the ultimate crime drama that money can buy. It has an ongoing plot through all 5 seasons.

Breaking Bad.

A story about a chemistry teacher with financial problems who starts to do illegal things to provide for his family. The lead actor Bryan Cranston has won an Emmy award for Lead actor in a Dramaseries, 3 years in a row for this show. If you want good subtle drama show with the right amount of action watch Breaking bad.

Peep Show.


A British Comedy series. There is a first person point of view and with the two lead actors audible on voiceover. This show is hilarious, i laughed so hard i had tears in my eyes. Every season has 6 episodes and there are currently 7 seasons finished and 2 more in the making. I can't wait. If you want to laugh buy Peep Show.

Jackie wrote: "I just blew through 3 seasons of Sons of Anarchy in under a week. Serialized and totally fantastic. Not scifi but if you like anti-heroes and violence, then this is a must-see."

Jackie,
I did something similar over a week for the first 2 seasons of SOA. Great show that was recommended to me and I'm not a biker but loved it