Terminalcoffee discussion

Last night I was driving three sixth grade boys to a local dance. One of them, who's often a little shit but comes from a fucked up situation, called another one of the boys "gay". My son said, "My dad's not gonna like you saying that" and he was right. I didn't want to embarrass my son, but I knew the kid who said it pretty well (he's often in our carpools), and we were on a way to a dance, almost there, so I said, "Don't start that in the car. Or anywhere. Just don't." I didn't have the time to get into a long lecture or discussion. What do you think? This reminds me of the "race and kids" conversation Smetchers started a while back. How should I have responded? How would you approach kids who call each other "gay" as an insult?

Frankly I've given up and hope Jake grows out of it. For a year I kept saying, you mean he's homosexual? All I got back was that I'm a retard. (Another non-PC term!) Jake says it's used in a completely different way, I've given him the spiel, it pisses me off, but the spiel does nothing except hopefully make him tolerant towards homosexuals, which so far he really is. I can tell from his reaction to the DADT, gay depictions on TV and in movies, etc.

That makes me feel better, Lori. I hear what you're saying.

The whole "this is gay" thing used to bother me. A LOT.

Unfortunately, the word is part of pop culture now. It's not fair to gay people, but the word just doesn't carry the same stigma as the 'n' word. It's just another use for the word lame. Rarely is it used anymore to insinuate someone is gay in a derogatory manner like the word "homo" would be used.

Even one of my gay friends says everything is gay now. It's almost strange coming out of his mouth, but there you go.

Try to stop a teen from saying it and he'll quit while you're around, and pick it right back up when he's with his friends.

I'm not saying it's right to use the word, but just saying that it's not going anywhere. We're sort of stuck with it.

I remember when I was a kid we called people "queer," will no sense (at least in my case) that it implied homosexuality. I guess I wasn't even vaguely aware of what homosexuality was. We sure threw that word around a lot, though.

And I know my response will probably bother someone. I'm not agreeing with the use of the word at all, just to make that clear.

There's just no way to get rid of the word now. It's spread like wildfire. The best you can do as a parent is try to teach your own kids not to use it, but that works about as well as telling your kids not to swear and watch as they turn around and start dropping F bombs with their friends around when they think you're not watching.

My stepsons do this, too. It irritates me but they're not gonna stop until some new word comes into vogue. What makes it a little awkward is that I kind of supect that one of them might actually be gay.

I liked your response, RA. Short, succinct, no-nonsense. I'm assuming 10 year olds have at least some idea why they shouldn't use it as an insult. If they really are clueless as to why, then give them the explanation. "The word gay is not an insult, because there's nothing wrong with gay people. So don't use it as one."

When my kids were in middle school, there was a wonderful teacher who explained to them why the word "retard" was offensive to him and to others. He told them a story about his handicapped sibling and the cruelty that was his young life. Several of the kids ended up in tears.
Then he quietly explained to them that if he ever heard them use the word "retard" in his presence, there would be serious consequences (time spent after school in his room).

The kids I had in the class I just sharply said "DON'T say that. Ever." And gave them a teacher glare.

RandomAnthony wrote: "How would you approach kids who call each other "gay" as an insult?"

I would advise them to use the more politically-correct "fag," unless they're in the UK in which case they can switch over to "homo."

Did Myles just call Clark a troll? Heh.

So is Clark a Cave Troll, or a Mountain Troll or maybe a simple River Troll :-).

Cave Troll

Yes, but he's our troll, and we love him.

hugs Clark

I like Bun's response a lot. It says that you realize they have a choice of which words to use, and you have a choice of whether to turn the car around. Words do have power.

So wait, we want Clark to be a troll? That is a good thing?

I think how you responded was perfectly appropriate Anthony. In my experience, kids, and people in general, respond surprisingly well to calm discussions breaking down ethical issues. As long as people are heard and understood empathetically, it’s pretty easy to get them to see how they would feel in someone else’s place. Getting angry or accusatory almost never changes anyone’s mind, and only serves to make them more entrenched in their own position. Everyone has a good side to appeal to, and conversely everyone could stand to improve.

Does message 21 look phallic to anyone but me?

And thanks people, esp. you, Melody, since you just posted:) This was a tough one for me. I didn't want to embarrass my son but I didn't want to let it slide.

And no, I don't think Clark is a troll in the sense that most people use it. I dig Clark. After seven beers I'd proclaim my love for him, as men should when drinking heavily together.

RandomAnthony wrote: "And no, I don't think Clark is a troll in the sense that most people use it. I dig Clark. After seven beers I'd proclaim my love for him, as men should when drinking heavily together."

Reason #42 for remaining a teetotaler.

RandomAnthony wrote: "And no, I don't think Clark is a troll in the sense that most people use it. I dig Clark. After seven beers I'd proclaim my love for him, as men should when drinking heavily together."

Well RA, you're cute but you're not that cute. But I appreciate the sentiment.

Nine beers?

And I hadn't thought of it that way, Buns. Thanks.

RandomAnthony wrote: "Does message 21 look phallic to anyone but me?

And thanks people, esp. you, Melody, since you just posted:) This was a tough one for me. I didn't want to embarrass my son but I didn't want to l..."

What the WHAT? Embarasing your son is your job, buddy!

BunWat wrote: "I also think, RA that if your son was embarassed he wouldn't have said that you didn't like people talking like that, he would have kept his mouth shut and hoped that it would slide by without anyt..."

Right-O Bun. This making the parent the heavy is the same reason my girls would bow out of skeevy co-ed sleepovers, saying, "Oh, My Mom would have a fit if she found out. And she WILL find out, so no thanks."