The Sword and Laser discussion

Anyone else read the Sword of Truth series? I loved the books got sort of stale at the end. I thought Goodkind was done with the series but looks like there is another one coming out The Omen Machine: A Richard and Kahlan Novel. Anyone heard anything about it?

These were some great fantasy stories. The tv show they did was horrible though

I really liked the first book. And really loved the second. Third was okay. And I couldn't get into the fourth at all.

I read The Law of Nines last year or so, and in some ways it's a continuation of the Sword of Truth. Only after many many years after that series. I won't divulge more but I did enjoy it. It has some of the same rules but of course, it's not the same world.

The good news is the Faith of the Fallen was my favorite book in the series. They are hit and miss some of the books are great some less then great. I have read them all. There are some really great moments that made the bad parts worth it. I agree that Soul of the Fire was not good. The next one was awesome though.

The Law of Nines was pretty good. I have no idea where he is going with that book. That is why I was surprised his next book was back to Richard and Kahlan.

While Wizard's First Rule is one of my favorite books, I have never finished the whole series. I stopped reading the series after the awful beginning to Soul of the Fire. I guess I will need to pick this series back up, as Leah's and Neil's opinions echo my brother's opinion.

My favorite of the series was Pillars of Creation since it took a break from the main story to tell a different perspective. Otherwise, I liked Wizards First Rule, Stone of Tears, Faith of the Fallen, and Confessor. Naked Empire and Chainfire dragged for a lot of the book before finishing OK. All together, the series was very good, and I'm looking forward to see where he takes this world he created.

This is my son's favorite series of books. I attempted to read them; I got up to the part where Richard has sex with Kahlan while she's menstruating and then she performs oral sex on him. That was pretty much a full stop for me on Goodkind.

On top of being generally vile, I also get the feeling he is a severe misogynist.

I've read all of them so far... some were more enjoyable than others. I wasn't aware that there was a new one coming out. I'll have to check it out.

Eric wrote: "...I got up to the part where Richard has sex with Kahlan while she's menstruating and then she performs oral sex on him. That was pretty much a full stop for me on Goodkind. On top of being generally vile, I also get the feeling he is a severe misogynist. "

I can see why people could think that. Pretty much every female character in the series is either raped or attempted to be raped. Makes you wonder if Goodkind uses that concept to show his hate of rape or the complete opposite feeling.

Ok I know I'm really late to the game here on this thread, (I just now saw it, sadly) but I had to jump in. SoT is my absolute favorite series, one that I've read twice completely.

The series is ten times better the second time around, as Goodkind has placed so many references in his books that can only be understood if you've already read the series. Plus, the understanding gained by knowing the true nature of the events and objects give you an entirely different perspective, making all the events of the first book surprisingly meaningless.

Yes Goodkind goes way too overboard with some of his...darker scenes, but its kinda realistic in terms of that reality. Bad people do bad things, people in love do...sensuous things. Goodkind is merely showing things as they would realistically be like if that kind of world existed. Bad guys don't just sit in leather chairs petting cats and laughing maniacally, they do things most of us would consider evil/wrong. Thats what makes them evil.

Regarding your original question about Omen Machine, Goodkind has said that Omen Machine is going to be a Richard and Kahlan novel occurring not long after Confessor, but not a continuation of the SoT series. This makes me wonder, but I cannot speculate here without using major plot spoilers. However the official release date is July 19. It was going to be Feb 15, but the EVIL publisher pushed it back.

Sorry some mild spoilers here.

Yeah I made it thought the first two books. His fascination with rape and S&M stuff started getting stale.


First we have him under some kind of weird magical bondage where he ends up killing his Domanitrix captor with a glowing white sword of Truthiness. Then we have the woman who, by the sheer virtue of having sex with a man, will turn him into her slave unless he is madly in love with her first...

THEN We also have the bad guy with his group of Doms who are actually Subs to said bad guy. They work by taking the main male characters power and turning it against him to make him their slave. Yeah It always felt like he had some real issues with women, sex, the whole Dom/Sub and S&M subculture.

Same here, kinda spoiler-y. Nothing major though.

I can kinda see where you're coming from with the first book, but I believe you missed the entire point. Denna was just as much a prisoner as Richard, just in a different type. By turning his sword white he declares her innocence, and she dies a martyr.

As for the Sisters of the Dark (I think thats who you're referring to) thats more of a hierarchic relationship than a Dom/Sub one. Most bad guys have minions, and if you look the Keeper also has male minions as well as banelings, which are something entirely different.

They may appear on the surface to be S&M-like, but in no way are they truly so. Theres a much deeper meaning to all this, which doesn't come about until later in the series, when it all makes sense. And with the exception of Jagang, The Mord'sith like scenes get toned way down in the later books, possibly due to comments like the ones we're seeing here.

It's Terry's world, and we're given a bit of insight into it. It evolves throughout the books.

Is it a fascination or does he have issues with S&M? Who knows. I think they were valuable parts of the stories and needed to be there. It gives substance to, and helps flesh out the world that Richard lives in... it's not a nice place. People and things have been corrupted to the use of evil and good fights it.

I think I read up to Soul of the Fire (or the one before it) but for whatever reason that book just completely soured me on the whole series. I do remember Wizard's First Rule being completely awesome, though. I do remember the ending of the last book I read which is where Kahlan gets badly beaten and Richard calls it quits. At least I think that was the ending.

By the sounds of it, I'm kind of glad that I didn't finish the series. It doesn't seem like I would have enjoyed it.

Yeah, I kind of know the feeling... it's like there are almost too many books in the series...

I really enjoyed the first half of the series. The end wasn't really what I was hoping for. I forget which book it was but I remember throwing the book down with "really? they are separated again and that's the main plot point?!@ AGAIN?!

Yeah, it's really annoying... I mean, come on! How many times does that plot point exist? Give me a break...

I think Tim hit the nail on the head with my main issue with the series. By the time I hit the fifth book in the series, I'd begun to suspect that he was recycling his plot. Two more books in & I was certain of it. Every book starts by separating them, taking away something precious, & then the rest of it is the two of them SLOWLY working their way back to each other & to regaining what was lost.

I understand that many authors have a formulaic approach to their stories, but at the very least, each book in a series should forward the metaplot. I never got that in the Sword of Truth. It always felt that they ended up in pretty much the same place they started, with the marked exception of book 1. It's only my opinion.

Recipe for Piquing and then Losing my interest:
1. Come up with a cool wizard, strong female with interesting new magic, and a dolt with a glowing sword(really?)
2.Add lots of cool monsters with their own magic, sexy s/m ladies running around corrupting the magical and a great empire for them all to overthrow.
3. Spend four or five books seperating and reuniting, endlessly, the main couple, make the dolt a wizard too
4. Make your cool s/m ladies just a sad reflection of your own deeper issues.
5. Spend a whole damn book criticizing communism(really, havent we covered this adequately in every other genre but fantasy)
6. Watch me take all my Goodkind books to the used book store

Also, Eric, never ever google red wings

Scorpion12 wrote: "Yeah, it's really annoying... I mean, come on! How many times does that plot point exist? Give me a break..."

Well, at least there is one, even if it's always the same :-)

Never like this series...read book 1 then half of book 2 then dropped it...

It's true... I mean, gee whiz. I'm tired of the drama... the bad guys coming just after Richard and Kahlan... I know they're central to the stories but PLEASE!

It's the same reason I quit reading Stephen King. I reached terminal burn out on him giving me the same stories over and over.

Yeah I agree about Stephen King... evil/possessed person/thing terrorizes person/family/town and eventually gets defeated by same.

Probably Goodkind has to keep Kahlen, Richard and Zedd separated because together they are just way to powerful for any believable villain to take on.

The same criticism could be made of any writer in the genre, from Koontz to Meiville, who dont share much besides being quadropeds. What i think you guys have missed out on is the amazing humanity, compassion, and insights that King puts in his books while defeating the evil whatever. It, Bag of Bones, Liseys Story have more heart and originality than you seem to give him credit for. Granted, a few stinkers were published in the 90's but after his near death dude got great. This is where Goodkind leaves me cold, his world is interesting, but these overpowered characters running around shaking the earth all day seems like an intentional emulation of Jordan.

I stopped reading King before his accident. I haven't gone back to his tomes since, nor will I. Compassion or not, I tired of reading the same thing over and over.

Sure, I see what you're referring to in IT about his humanistic character traits... I'll give him credit, he writes well...

Goodkind had an axe to grind and it was against an evil empire... and I guess it's like real life; something is removed and something else comes along to replace it... it may be worse... it may be better. Dark Rahl was removed and replaced with the Emperor... he was worse.

It's all in perspective and how you look at it...

Richard and Kahlan are minorities in a shrinking minority... magic wielders trying to preserve the magic they see all around them in the world... it's the rest of that civilization that's become numb to the beauty that magic is...

Eric wrote: "I got up to the part where Richard has sex with Kahlan while she's menstruating and then she performs oral sex on him."

Ok, I had a huge rant written here about how I could not remember this ever happening. I even posted it. Then I was talking about it with my girlfriend and she reminded me of an incident that I had forgotten, but even SHE didn't remember it being like Eric described.
After re-reading the scene to refresh it in my mind, I have to admit that TECHNICALLY, the events Eric mentions do happen. Once. Three lines of text. The fact that Kahlen is menstruating isn't even important to the scene, but (as I recall) it WAS important to an interaction that happened earlier in the book, and Goodkind is generally really good at details. Would the scene be less off-putting to some people if that part had been omitted? Probably. Would he have been nit-picked by his fans if he'd overlooked a fact previously stated in the book? Definitely.

Regardless, one short scene with slightly "squicky" elements should not be a reason to dismiss a series as entertaining, epic, and thought-provoking as SoT. If you're looking for a valid criticism of the series it would be that the entire series is a (very thinly veiled, in places) vehicle for Goodkind's philosophical observations on the nature of Good, Evil, society, humanity, politics, and life. There are a thousand books like this, and I'd have to say that this series is the most enjoyable and well-written example of that type of writing, I've ever seen. It's not for everyone though, and I can understand people who dislike the series for that reason, or because they disagree with Goodkind's beliefs. I happen to both like and agree with him.

If anyone is interested, Amazon are releasing several of the Sword of Truth books on unabridged MP3 CD on July 19th. Discounted they are priced at $13.59 each (i.e. less than an Audible credit). Buy 2 or more and get free shipping.

Nice thanks.