Amazon Kindle discussion

Hi all.
I've recently bought an 18 dollars e-book and I'm very disappointed with it. I've had issues with the standard of e-books before but this one costs so much and has some annoying flaws that interrupt my reading process and therefore gets in the way of my enjoyment of the book. I can live with a few spelling mistakes but in this book, the title shows up in the middle of sentences many, many times and I just don't feel that's acceptable for an e-book this expensive.
Anybody else have any experiences with this?
Sincerely, Christina

i haven't had that really with any amazon books - some of the smaller publishers i've used have had weird formatting issues (half italics and half bold or similar) - you can return it to amazon and let them know for bad formatting - it might also be worth contacting the publisher/author and letting them know, so they are aware there are issues - what book was it?

That's a good idea. It is Michael Moorcock's Doctor Who: Coming of the Terraphiles.
I've had some free e-books with lots of problems but this is the first from amazon with such big issues.

I had the experience with that exact book ... and it's not a terribly good book, to add insult to injury!

It's a really bad transfer. You can send an email to customer service to complain about the formatting problems.

Your first problem was paying $18 for an ebook. I haven't paid that much for a physical book in ages, I sure as hell aint gonna pay it for an ebook.

It sounds like the publisher used a crappy program to convert its PDF file into Kindle format. I'd email Amazon and ask for a refund.

At $18, I'm seriously hoping you are in Australia (or somewhere other than America, anway, Australia is the only other country I know that uses dollars) ... I paid $9.99 ...

Amazon usually will refund an ebook if it's formatted poorly. Just make sure you call Kindle customer support, not Amazon.

I'm in Europe, Denmark to be exact. And I guess we pay more for our books over here. First, because we're a small country and our books get published in small numbers. Second, because they have to be shipped here etc. I think e-books are more expensive outside the US unfortunately. I at least tend to be willing to pay more to get books simply to be able to get them!

Stormhawk, It is a lousy e-book and a bad book on top if it!

I'll send an email to customer service to complain and we'll see how it goes.

I sent my email to customer service last night. They responded quickly and asked for a list of locations at which the problem occurs. The search feature was very helpful with that! They offered to refund the purchase price if I thought that the book was too damaged to read, but it was merely annoying, so I didn't request the refund. Make sure you include your order number in the email.

> the title shows up in the middle of sentences many, many times

This is a classic case of the publisher stuffing the print book file through a conversion program and not paying attention to the result. In a print book, the title (and often author name or chapter title) appears in a header on each page. These headers have to be stripped out before making the ebook. Obviously the publisher didn't think it was worth the trouble.

I doubt the publisher will pay attention to doing a better job of formatting until they start losing sales.

Catherine M. Wilson
http://raqoon-design.com/

Christina Stind wrote: "Hi all.
I've recently bought an 18 dollars e-book and I'm very disappointed with it. I've had issues with the standard of e-books before but this one costs so much and has some annoying flaws that..."

Christina, I am sorry for what you have been through. I can tell you as Author that has published two books on Amazon and several e-book stores in the past two months, sometime you get issues in books that cannot be seen by the author/publisher. You can have a file that is corrupted, or the one that I think causes the most issues, has HIDDEN FORMATTING. You can debug files all you want but sometime as a publisher of the e-book just cannot see it until the book in published on the platform. I can tell from experience that most authors take pride in their work and spend hundreds of hours writing and formatting for e-book. It’s now 4:30 am and I have not slept yet and did the same thing last night trying to prevent what you are saying to happen to my books on thirty different website. Again, I am sorry. I’m sure Amazon will reimburse you your money back.
P.S let the author know on his blog that is file has issues. I’m sure he would appreciate it.

It's definitely a header issue where the entire print page has been scanned for ebook (instead of just the book text), or the digital file that went to the printers was used. I am appalled on your behalf when, like Brian says, most indie authors take great care with their own work. The first thing I do when one of mine goes live is to pay and download it in every format I can so as to check no hidden formatting has gone through. Pity the big publishers don't as it is often they which give ebooks a bad name.

Christina, you've paid (a fortune) for a pristine copy. Ensure you get one.

Hey Linda. I feel you. I did the same last week and paid 7.99 three times for the book to check on three different platforms. Epub, mobi. I wanted make sure no issues. Now I have become vigilant after seeing negative postings on Amazon about other peoples ebook. I've now become pretty good at formatting and e-publishing. Now i'm taking on publishing paperbacks, doing everything from cover to printing and formatting. Gotta do it yourself if you want it done right.

Interesting thread. I'm an author and recently a review of 'A Dead Man's Debt' majored on the ebook formatting which spoilt the reviewers enjoyment of the read. This is now in the hands of my publisher but from an author's point of view this is very frustrating and totally unacceptable. If you are an author and find comments about formatting you must report them back to the publisher or nothing will change.
Grace x

I self published an E-book on Kindle and did a reasonable job of it. Kindle don't check the quality it is down to the publisher. I subsequently wanted to get my book onto the Nook and Ipad. I used Smashwords and they were ruthless in rejecting it until I got it to a high standard. I am glad I did as I sell alot more e-books than physical and I am confident that it is a pretty decent standard. As I improved it I uploaded the better versions to Kindle.

I downloaded a sample of Ratking by Michael Dibdin the other day a bestseller and was dissapointed to see they made the same mistakes I did with my first attempt. You would think big publishers would have some sort of minimum standard.

Michael Dibdin

Grace wrote: "Interesting thread. I'm an author and recently a review of 'A Dead Man's Debt' majored on the ebook formatting which spoilt the reviewers enjoyment of the read. This is now in the hands of my publi..."

The problem with the standard Micheal is that there are no standards except for some aggregators who comes up with their own guide that you have to stick to. I think that the ability to create a good format is based on luck. You just might get lucky after you pull the manuscript out of Word.doc without any bugs and hidden format. My trick to getting lucky and creating a clean file is to cut and paste the complete file into an old microsoft wordprocessor to clear everything and then put into epub or mobi.

Do what Smashwords suggests, "nuke" it, losing absolutely all formatting and then go through the text putting it all back in.

I have the original Word file next to the nuked file on the screen and scroll through reinstating the necessary formatting. Yes, it takes time, but nowhere near as much as writing the novel. Why would I want to annoy my readers who will tell their friends not to touch book X as the formatting is wrecked?

The thing is, they won't tell their friends not to touch book X, they'll tell them not to touch books by me. And I'm going to shoot myself in the foot this way, am I? Of course not.

Lol. Linda. I hear that. I'm telling you. Writing the book for me has become so much easier than the other hoops I have to jump through to get the book ready. I am finally seeing the fruits of my labor and now I'm going to hire a whiz kid to do all the dirty work with the profits cause really, I dont want the stress!!

Brian says:
I think that the ability to create a good format is based on luck.


Actually, if you know how to do it, there is no luck involved. It's just a matter of learning a new skill.

Joshua Tallent's book, Kindle Formatting, will tell you everything you need to know to produce a top-quality Kindle book, but a lot of people balk when they realize they will have to edit an html file, which is why there are so many folks providing Kindle formatting as a service.

Once you have an html file for your book, you can use a program like Sigil to create an epub, but again, working with html is almost always involved, as some of the Kindle formatting doesn't work well for epub.

Catherine M. Wilson
http://raqoon-design.com/

I've read a few books that have slight errors but not enough to interrupt my reading. There is one book that seems to have a lot of errors and it's actually caused me to stop reading it several times. The errors are mostly just spaces in the middle of words but when it happens a lot it tends to get frustrating. Despite my interest in the book I still haven't finished it though I've had it for a couple weeks now.

These things matter, Tish. The flow of the phrase, the sentence, where and on what words a paragraph starts and ends, the amount of white space interleaving a section of dialogue, whether a dialogue tag goes at the start, the middle, the end of a line of speech - all these things are *chosen* by the author to exert a certain emotional reaction in the reader. Readers should not be aware of the text as an intermediary to the reality the author is creating. As you say, any errors in that text cause the reader to be dragged out of that reality to focus on the mechanics. That's not what novels are about, and as you can doubtless tell (LOL) it's becoming a soapbox issue for me, especially when mainstream publishers turn round with an attitude of "it's only...". Yea, it's "only" my $18 or $2.99... but I don't have to spend it with them.

I shall climb back into my cage now, and get on with some work. Have a good day everyone.

As you can tell, this is a soapbox issue for me as well. When publishers design a hardcover or trade paperback, they take great pains to make it look good. Why, oh why, then, do they put out ebooks that look like cr*p? To me, that says they think ebooks just aren't "real" books, and people who like (or prefer) to read ebooks aren't "real" booklovers. If that's what they think, I'll buy something else. It's not like there's any shortage of things to read.

Catherine M. Wilson
http://raqoon-design.com/

I agree completely with both of you. I can easily ignore a few mistakes but when it like every few paragraphs it bothers me.

I got a Kindle because I basically just devour books and Kindle makes it easier for me. Since the beginning of December I've read 30-40 books on my Kindle. So I'm obviously a book lover. Publishers are really going to have to step it up as popular as ebook readers are.

I contacted the Kindle customer service and they offered me a full refund if the book was to damaged for to read it. I accepted because as someone else wrote, these flaws have to cost someone for it to be fixed.
I'm really happy about all the authors participating in this post stating how hard they work to make sure their e-books are pristine.

Hey Christina. This is why I've written blogs about how good Amazon customer service is. There is no doubt about it. They are the best amd this my friend is why. They put the customer first and they are not afraid to share the love. They work just as hard for authors also. You could've gotten your money back that very day. You just had to ask.

I'm so glad it worked out for you Christina, but sucks you had to go through it.

I in no way blame Amazon for this. I fully understand that they can't go through each Kindle book and check it for errors. And I'm very happy with the service and the speed of it as well.

400,000 on Kindle and counting. (happy being near the top). Tough to check that much books. Maybe they need to get a app for that. Ha

Actually I think Kindle books are more like 750,000 haha

I work for amazon. We're a very customer-centric company. They teach us to try and help the customer in any way possible. It's the only place I've ever worked that treats customers so well.

LOL. Tish. K. Wow.

Re: returning books to Amazon
When a publisher gets their report from Amazon about their Kindle sales, the number of books returned is clearly noted. One would hope that would get the publisher's attention.

I am curious though. When you return a Kindle book, does Amazon ask the reason?

Catherine M. Wilson
http://raqoon-design.com/

Yeah we ask or we're supposed to. Though frequently people just tell us before we have to ask. We have to code it. Most returns I do for customers are accidental purchases from the device. However I have returned a few that were just bad versions.

I wrote customer service and told them what was wrong and then they issued the refund.
It was exactly to try to get the publisher's attention that I chose to return the book.

Catherine wrote: "a lot of people balk when they realize they will have to edit an html file"

It's not so difficult to do it all in Word. I have two books on the Kindle that have been widely praised for the punctilio of their layout and typography. You can see the layout by getting samples from Amazon for THE LARSSON SCANDAL the unauthorized guerilla critique of Stieg Larsson and IDITAROD a novel of The Greatest Race on Earth. Both were made without ever opening a single HTML file.

The trick to using MSWord successfully is to run the file through another program to strip off Microsoft's hidden code (Pages from Apple's iWork is good) and then to write out a clean DOC file, which can be tested on the AZW translator.

The trick to proper indentation and flush pars is to grasp that Amazon's defaults for AZW fight the Microsoft defaults for Word, so that a double default stylesheet is required, with a dummy style that sets up an unnecessary indent merely so that it can be explicitly removed for flush pars, first after a chapter head or a section break.

Andre wrote: "Catherine wrote: "a lot of people balk when they realize they will have to edit an html file"

It's not so difficult to do it all in Word. I have two books on the Kindle that have been widely prais..."

Andre, I laughed when I read your comment that "It's not so difficult ..." and then explained in what sounded, to me, like Swahili. That's why I paid CreateSpace to have mine formated. Then I purchased the Kindle book to verify that everything came out good.

I think the price of an Ebook is a huge factor on my forgiveness of formatting/spelling errors. I would be a lot more forgiving of the occasional error in an ebook that cost me $0.99 than for one that cost me $18.00.

I'm with Christopher here. If I've paid 99p or $0.99 for an e-book then I am more than happy to forgive some bad spelling and grammar. I would however be annoyed if I'd paid the same price as I would a paperback/hardback for the quality to be poor.
I have to say that I have purchased several e-books through smashwords and have been very happy with the quality.
I've never used Amazon customer services like some others mention, but it does inspire confidence from all the comments made about their level of service.

I'm sure I'd be less forgiving of errors in an expensive book rather than a cheap one, although price shouldn't really be a factor for forgiving errors in any book. All published works, no matter how published, should be a clean version, the best it can be. Readers deserve it. The reality is, mistakes do happen in just about every business. As an author, who's spent many hours editing, it is tough to never be guilty of a mistake, and it's horribly upsetting to find one you might have missed in your work, despite your and/or your publisher's best efforts. As a reader, I also dislike the jolt when a mistake drags me from the fictional world in which I'm immersed. One or two will not spoil the story for me. Many, and I'll note it in my review so the author and their publisher have chance to rectify.

Gail wrote: Andre, I laughed when I read your comment that "It's not so difficult ..." and then explained in what sounded, to me, like Swahili."

Hiyo ni moja nzuri, Gail! Lakini formatting ni uaminifu chini vigumu kuliko sauti katika lugha ya Kiswahili. Lakini, bila shaka, inasaidia kujua nini wewe saa.

According to Google Translator, I just said, "That is a good one, Gail! But formatting is less difficult than honest voice in the Kiswahili language. But, of course, it helps to know what you're at."

A better translation from my rusty but servicable Swahili would be, "That's a good one, Gail! But formatting is honestly less difficult than it sounds in Swahili. Still, without a doubt, it helps to know what you're at."

Gail wrote: That's why I paid CreateSpace to have mine formated. Then I purchased the Kindle book to verify that everything came out good."

Probably the best thing for you. But I have over forty books of my own to reissue, plus the books of my protege, plus some I have agreed to edit. Gets a bit expensive paying Createspace...

Worse, I'm "one of the leading graphic designers in the world" and "renowned as a teacher of graphic design", and certainly my book Grids: The Structure of Graphic Design is a fundamental textbook in the subject, so I'd look a real neddie if I paid someone else to format my novels and other books for me... I just had to learn the ins and outs of ebook formatting.

Christina Stind wrote: "I contacted the Kindle customer service and they offered me a full refund if the book was to damaged for to read it. I accepted because as someone else wrote, these flaws have to cost someone for i..."

Excellent. I was reading through here--glad to see they refunded and all ended well!

I agree. I had no idea I had echoes of pdf page numbers in weird spots in my book till a reader mentioned it. I happily worked to get rid of them.

I try to load my books onto my Kindle and do a read to see if there's anything odd, and I can tell you, a reader's first time eyes are the best for this. Most authors I know would LOVE to know.

I bought an ebook from a major publisher and was surprised at how poorly it is formatted. Makes me wonder if the publisher is really biased against ebooks.

I'm still enjoying the book, though.


Christina Stind wrote: "Hi all.
I've recently bought an 18 dollars e-book and I'm very disappointed with it. I've had issues with the standard of e-books before but this one costs so much and has some annoying flaws that..."

Almost every book I've read for Kindle has had a few noticable formatting errors... one suddenly switched into italic and another had superscript 5s instead of closing quote marks. It's a shame they don't proof them properly.

I've only read four books on my kindle and haven't noticed any real problems. Moonstone by Wilkie Collins would start a new paragraph whenever 'Mr.' appeared though.

I've read a couple of dozen books on my kindle so far... I don't think I've seen any real formatting errors yet - errors that affect readability. Maybe I've been lucky. But, it's awesome to hear that Amazon is so cooperative. I never imagined they'd take a return on an ebook. Thanks for the heads up!

Starry wrote: "How easy is it to get a refund on an amazon ebook? I haven't done it yet, and I'm not sure I'd do it because I like supporting the indie writers and the works I choose to buy. The book would have..."
You can get a refund within 7 days no questions asked UNLESS it appears you are abusing the system (there is a lifetime number and no one knows exactly what the formula is, but chronic returners apparently will get their accounts blocked.)

After the 7 days, you do have to provide a reason. The acceptable reasons are pretty much "formatting" or bad OCR/scan, unreadabilty and things like that. I think after the 7 days you have to call.

Amazon is generally very supportive of both customers and writers. I think they try to be fair to both!

I've orded my Kindle and am waiting impatiently for it to arrive.

Because I am in AUST, books get realeased later than in the US. Is it illegal to set my amazon account with a US address so I can download the ebooks rather than wait?

Tanith wrote: "I've orded my Kindle and am waiting impatiently for it to arrive.

Because I am in AUST, books get realeased later than in the US. Is it illegal to set my amazon account with a US address so I ca..."

I wanted to do something like this with Audible to get audio-books available only in the UK (I live in the U.S.) The address they used was the one linked to my credit card. I suppose if you could get a credit card registered to an address in the U.S. it would be possible, but that would be difficult to do here if it's not your real residence. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has an idea.

Tanith wrote: "I've orded my Kindle and am waiting impatiently for it to arrive.

Because I am in AUST, books get realeased later than in the US. Is it illegal to set my amazon account with a US address so I ca..."

It's not illegal and many people do it--however, I think you need a US address with a credit card tied to that address (I'm not sure about the credit card; whether it has to be a US bank or what.)

I hope you can figure out a way to make it work. The whole way that books get distributed (unfairly) round the world needs a serious update! Go for it! Get your books!!!

Maria, you say "The whole way that books get distributed (unfairly) round the world needs a serious update!" I agree. Iknow, I know, it is not Amazon's fault, but something has to be done. We don't even have the button to show we want a book made available for Kindle.