SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Kernos wrote: "I agree. Totally derivative. I also didn't linke The Golden Compass. Much better written, but too childish for my tastes. "

I also didn't like the 'His Dark Materials' trilogy, but more because of the preachiness that was mentioned about other books. I thought the first book was ok, but by the third, the plot and characters pretty much fell by the wayside to get the message out - and it just bored me immensely, even though I generally agreed with it.

I also found Eragon pretty plodding and generally overhyped. I've never read any of the others in the series.

The only book I've liked so far that's been mentioned is 'Wicked', which I quite enjoyed the first time, but a little less so the second time I read it. I had no expectations about it, it was one of those books I picked up off the shelves at random, but I really enjoyed the social and religious satire. I thought it was woven well into the story.

I know a lot of people on GR complain about how they didn't like Sunshine - I love love love it, but it needed a sequel! Couldn't read Golden Compass at all.

Kernos i didn't finish Titus Groan, because i didn't like the writing style, it was too old fashioned for me. It seemed like the author was trying to write poetic.

Brandon Sanderson's The Way of Kings. Boring. Nice cover, though.

I couldn't make it through the Twilight series. If I was responsible for writing the dust jacket blurb for it, I think I'd write something like:
"Guy with glitter glued on his chest. Raining. Everyone depressed. Give that girl Prozac. Oh, look, werewolves with no shirts on!"

Nikki wrote: "Personally, I thought Sunshine was an enjoyable book. Not without flaws, sure, but still fun. That was the first book I was actually surprised to see in this thread. :)"

There's been a few surprises for me in this thread so far, which is pretty cool.


Though the biggest surprise is that the one which shall not be mentioned actually hasn't been mentioned yet.

And it's the perfect thread for it, too...

I'm kind of surprised that no one has mentioned Doctor Who: Coming of the Terraphiles. Seems like everyone in this group is hating it. (Well, okay, everyone who is reading it. I gave that one a pass because I couldn't get it from the library and wasn't inclined to cough up the hardcover price.)

Ala wrote: "Though the biggest surprise is that the one which shall not be mentioned actually hasn't been mentioned yet.

And it's the perfect thread for it, too... "

Lord of the Rings?


ETA: Oh, wait... nevermind. I got it. That book...

Nikki: I'm trying to forget I read that book. At all.

Colleen: :P

Back in the day, I loved Interview with a Vampire, but in deference to my teen-aged self, I will never reread it. I doubt it has aged well. I was a huge Ann Rice fan back then, but was done in by the double whammy that was Tale of the Body Thief and The Witching Hour. The Witching Hour was especially heartbreaking, because I was so into it and thought it was the Best! Book! Ever! for the first three quarters, and then it devolved into a giant crap-fest that left me seething. The only way it could have been saved was to tack on the last chapter of Lasher.

The only other book I can remember that left me with nuclear-level rage was part of Jack Chalker's [Anchor and Flux] series. I had a real love/hate relationship with Chalker - why did someone with such a magnificent imagination have to hate women so much? Not sure which book it was - the third one, I think, but remember throwing it hard enough against the wall that I broke the spine.

Heh - that was YEARS ago, and I'm getting all mad, just thinking about it!

Chalker and Vance, Peggy! Right there with you.

Nikki wrote: "Most of Patricia Cornwell's later Kay Scarpetta books. Exactly where you think the decline starts and the unrealism gets to be too much varies."

Oh, gosh, yes. I'd wandered away from the series, came back and read whatever was the latest, and it was basically serial killer porn. Rarely have I been so revolted.

One of Piers Anthony's novels was the first book I remember hitting my Could Not Finish pile. One of the Incarnations of Immortality, where he had a man turn into a woman and a woman into a man - and then s/he immediately tries to rape the now-woman because she wasn't used to controlling those masculine urges. That book hit the wall as well as the CNF pile.

My friend felt the same way about A Spell for Chameleon. He could not finish the book, I felt the book was good for the time, and a foreshadow for the future of all the sexual and other things can't think off the top of my head kind of things that he likes to write about.

Anthony's books aren't something I'd read now (puns, panties, rampant sexism) but they worked for me as a teen. That particular one just hit the too much trigger, and I've never read another book by him.

Another bad reading experience for me was the sequel to Andre Norton's Quag Keep, called Return to Quag Keep and co-written by Jean Rabe.

Quag Keep wasn't the strongest of Norton's fantasies, but it has a certain charm, and the strength of Norton's unique voice. Return to Quag Keep was a schemozzle of a plot, with none of Norton's voice, and completely destroyed the characters of the first novel. I was just...amazed at the difference.

Yeah, Anthony's another author I once loved, but I know that stuff (especially the Xanth series) can't have aged well. I adored Crewel Lye, but it was all down hill from there. And I see from his website, he's still at it!

Colleen ~blackrose~ wrote: "I also didn't like the 'His Dark Materials' trilogy, but more because of the preachiness that was mentioned about other books. I thought the first book was ok, but by the third, the plot and characters pretty much fell by the wayside to get the message out - and it just bored me immensely, even though I generally agreed with it..."

Had almost the exact same feeling. Really tried, but during my second attempt at the series I gave up on The Amber Spyglass book about 3/4 of the way through... and I STILL don't feel like I'm missing anything.

Andrea wrote: "One of Piers Anthony's novels was the first book I remember hitting my Could Not Finish pile. One of the Incarnations of Immortality, where he had a man turn into a woman and a woman into a man..."

Piers Anthony...Piers....His problem is he takes a great idea and writes into the Ground. Incarnations of Immortality started amazing, Death, Time, War amazing then went to Jesus and the Devil Never finished the series.

Peggy, i100% agree re 'the witching hour'. so very very good, then CRASH!!! into some kooky pit o' wtf.

Ala, now I really need to ow what the book that shall not be mentioned is...

Ken wrote: "Andrea wrote: "One of Piers Anthony's novels was the first book I remember hitting my Could Not Finish pile. One of the Incarnations of Immortality, where he had a man turn into a woman and a woman..."

For Love of Evil was pretty good, And Eternity was the definition of awful. I heard he was making a book about Night but never heard if it was done and obviously haven't read it.

Looks like so far I have been very lucky. I recognize only a few of the bad books listed; and have read none of them.

When I first started SF, however, as a young reader, I read everything and there area lot of unsatisfying book out there.

I never could get into Piers Anthony, though, even as a teen.

Marc wrote: I heard he was making a book about Night but never heard if it was done and obviously haven't read it.

I believe he did write one about Night. I haven't read it either, but looks like it came out in 2007 - Under a Velvet Cloak.

Machavelli wrote: "Kernos i didn't finish Titus Groan, because i didn't like the writing style, it was too old fashioned for me. It seemed like the author was trying to write poetic."

I agree the style was weird and difficult, but I was in a reading contest in the late '70's I think, so had to finish it. The thing is, I still have these strong images in my head, especially of Steerpike's activity and of the castle. Something worked.

I've had trouble getting into the Black Company books because of their style and had to really work to get through The Worm Ouroboros


Ala wrote: "...Though the biggest surprise is that the one which shall not be mentioned actually hasn't been mentioned yet...."

Maybe a link to the inside joke... ;-)

I have to start with the four Twilight books as being the worst not-for-school books I have read. I was entertained, but because I was reading them for the bad-ness of them. I will spare you my rant about them.

One of the few I have begun but not finished was Solaris. It should have been right up my alley but I just couldn't get into the style.

The Red Pony was so awful it put me off Steinbeck forever.

Almost anything that falls under the genre heading 'paranormal romance' enrages me beyond my ability to be amused by cotton candy, fluffy, turn off your brain stories.

Luci wrote: "Almost anything that falls under the genre heading 'paranormal romance' enrages me beyond my ability to be amused by cotton candy, fluffy, turn off your brain stories."

Not all paranormal romances are bad fluff, although I will admit to being less than impressed with many that I've seen lately. I hope you'll check my own paranormal (not a romance but with a strong romantic component), St. Martin's Moon, when it comes out in May.

You know Marc - perhaps a thread about "Really Bad Books" is not the best place to promote your books. Just sayin'. ;)

Kernos wrote: "Maybe a link to the inside joke... ;-) "

But it would ruin the surprise if it does happen here...

totally agree re Kate Scarpetta. Just awful awful plots and writing. Terrible on the 'look at how much I researched'.
Most of the paranormal romance is vomit. I started twilight but got so bored about 1/3 of the way through, I just dropped it. Repetitive, totally uninteresting, drab.
there is one particular series that I just hate, but can't for the life of me recall the name of the author. I finished book one (god help me) but almost heaved when the main female character is getting tingly, the author says her 'womb clenched'. Bleeeeeecccchhhhh!

Aileen, it's not Wraith by Phaedra Weldon is it? If not, then that one's equally bad. When our heroine sees this one hot guy she can "feel an egg drop". Double blech.

I've been going through the Hugo Award winning novels where I assumed I would get mostly good books. This led to They'd rather be Right by Mark Clifton and Frank Riley and The Wanderer by Fritz Leiber. Both of these books were just really bad.

Tastes have seriously changed since early Hugos, and for some of those books you're looking more at an award for ideas than things we would necessarily consider good these days.

Aileen wrote: I finished book one (god help me) but almost heaved when the main female character is getting tingly, the author says her 'womb clenched'. Bleeeeeecccchhhhh!

Oh man, if the author doesn't know the difference between a womb and a vagina, they should just stay away from romance scenes entirely.

Gardens of the Moon
Let the Right One In
Burned

Louise wrote: "Gardens of the Moon
Let the Right One In
Burned"

I guess you're not going to read Gardens of the Moon with the group in March? I hate the book too by the way!

The Sword of Shannara. Totally derivative of LOTR. I can't comment on the sequels since I never went near them.

Outlaw of Gor made Edgar Rice Burroughs seem like a feminist. It also is a poor imitation of the ERB books and the Lin Carter books.

Piers Anthony, after he became overly-commercialised and his work developed a sexist and almost creepy feel. This is a shame since he can be a compelling writer.

Much of Robert Anson Heinlein from The Number of the Beast onwards. Some of his earlier material is the best SF I have read.

Larry Niven from around the time of The Ringworld Throne or The Integral Trees. His work became disjointed and overly obscure, as opposed to his fun with playing with concepts, and his spare and elegant writing style of the 70-80's.


Christopher Tolkien and the expansions of his father's work after The Silmarillion. Also the follow-on to the Dune series by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson; they manage to almost do with 500 pages what Frank did with 500 words, but without his magic.

Titus Groan is tickling my memory bank - I swear I must have tried to read it once, back in the day. Like Machavelli, I don't believe I got very far.

It does remind me of another book that made me cranky - Black House, by Stephen King and Peter Straub. I'm an unabashed King fan, and I liked The Talisman all right, but the opening chapter of Black House dripped with so much pretension that I snapped it shut and took it back to the library.

Rexton wrote: "The Sword of Shannara. Totally derivative of LOTR. I can't comment on the sequels since I never went near them.

Outlaw of Gor made Edgar Rice Burroughs se..."

Re Frank Herbert's magic-- Frank Herbert wasn't always magic. In fact, I'd call God Emperor of Duneone of the worst books I've ever struggled through, and a couple of the others that he wrote in the Dune series were nearly as bad as that one.

The Brian Herbert--Kevin Anderson Dune books are not masterpieces, but they are at least entertaining.

Ruby wrote: "I know a lot of people on GR complain about how they didn't like Sunshine - I love love love it, but it needed a sequel! Couldn't read Golden Compass at all."

I also loved "Sunshine" and would love to see a sequel!

Shomeret wrote: "The Brian Herbert--Kevin Anderson Dune books are not masterpieces, but they are at least entertaining. "

Well...ok they are entertaining if you are looking for popcorn and bubblegum, but these books are devoid of any meaning or insight. The actually writing technique of the novels was simplistic. Something I ignored through the 8 post Frank Herbert books but that ending of the series was a travesty to his memory.
I cant really say to the greatness of Herbert Sr. writing as I read the books way back in High school. What I ca say is that I liked them then. Sometimes its not about the writing....but about the idea
One of these days I have to revisit them

All I can still say is that the first Legend of Dune book and the Road to Dune were great insight on the history of Dune itself, other than that all the other books was a waste of time.

Kevin wrote: "All I can still say is that the first Legend of Dune book and the Road to Dune were great insight on the history of Dune itself, other than that all the other books was a waste of time."

Brian's certainly NOT up to Frank, but still I love escaping to the Dune universe just for fun.

I love escaping with the first four books, after that I find it a waste of time, one event that was not all that important basically takes over a whole book. I thought they were suppose to multi layered books.

I'm going to have to ditto on The Lovely Bones. I never finished it. I actually watched the movie recently just to see if the story was good and just not the writing, but I hated the movie too.

I also HATED Beatrice and Virgil. It was pointless and depressing and it made me angry to read.

I never got far in Stranger in a Strange Land. I kept forgetting that I had decided not to read it and kept picking it up again and being disappointed all over again.

I have quite a few others I've not liked, but not with quite the same loathing as I had for the ones above.

Stranger in a Strange land is not that bad of a book. I liked it. It was a favorite of the hippies, making it a bestseller in the 60s, even made it to We Didn't Start the Fire by Billy Joel.

Aileen wrote: "totally agree re Kate Scarpetta. Just awful awful plots and writing. Terrible on the 'look at how much I researched'.
Most of the paranormal romance is vomit. I started twilight but got so bored ..."

Oh dear god. No, that wasn't it. thanks for the heads up, though.

Colleen ~blackrose~ wrote: "Aileen, it's not Wraith by Phaedra Weldon is it? If not, then that one's equally bad. When our heroine sees this one hot guy she can "feel an egg drop". Double blech."

Hmm, actually replied to my own post. D'oh! Sorry, Colleen, I was trying to reply to you...

Here I go again, I hated The Name of the Wind I know I will not like The Wise Man's Fear. The main problem I have with the book is Kvothe. One example is why out of nowhere his story gets to be told. His past is nothing special meaning not know across the land it seems, even if it was cool. Second example, this kind of ties in with the first, if he is all that cool, then why is he a loner, never really having friend, having a really tough life. Does a tough life not able you to have others be with you here and there? This means that he is the only constant character through the trilogy or even in the first book in his tale. How can we trust and back up his story if he is the only way that knows it fully. That seems shady to me about his personality and character as a person. Third example, why introduce the school at based on what happens in the school. Lastly, many has hated me for this, this book is getting too much hype that it is turning into Twilight or Harry Potter for people that read fantasy on a regular bases. To me this book is not worth the hype, too cliche for me.
I know their is basically going to be more hate mail coming for me.

Kevin wrote: "Here I go again, I hated The Name of the Wind I know I will not like The Wise Man's Fear. The main problem I have with the book is Kvothe. One example is why out of nowhere his story ..."

I didn't really care for it either, but I guess I didn't hate it...just didn't get what all the hype was about. I think it was the way the story was told, in a chronological manner from the subject himself, I didn't have any investment as to him being anyone I CARED to hear about. Sounded more like an egotistical student.

Be careful with spoilers, Kevin. That's what people will hated you for more than anything. If they can make heads or tails out of what you said and have anything spoiled, that is. Thanks!

Aileen wrote: "Colleen ~blackrose~ wrote: "Aileen, it's not Wraith by Phaedra Weldon is it? If not, then that one's equally bad. When our heroine sees this one hot guy she can "fe..."

No worries.

The worst part was that the plot was actually kind of interesting, but the heroine/narration was so annoying, I couldn't really get past it enough to continue with the series. (I tried with the second in the series, but the narration remained horribly irritating.)

Maggie wrote: "I didn't really care for it either, but I guess I didn't hate it...just didn't get what all the hype was about..."

That's the same way I felt about Gardens of the Moon, which just goes to show you.. There's something out there for everyone to love!


And for the record, I don't think anyone here *hates* anyone else for not liking a book that they liked. (Not directed at you, Maggie!)

Dawn wrote: "Maggie wrote: "I didn't really care for it either, but I guess I didn't hate it...just didn't get what all the hype was about..."

That's the same way I felt about Gardens of the Moon, which just g..."

Too funny Dawn! But then if we all liked the same thing it would be a really boring discussion :)