Aussie Readers discussion

(I dont know where else to put this topic, so mods, please feel free to move it where ever it belongs!)

Okay, so Im in year ten this year, and as a requirement to pass the MYP and get full benefits of SACE next year (both learning systems), I need to do a 'personal project'.
This means I have to write a report and create the final product-on ANYTHING I choose. Some people have decided to re-decorate their bedrooms, run coaching clinics, remix music, plan a holiday etc etc.
Like the cool person I am, I have chosen to write a novel: You guys can help me!
As part of my research I need to know what book-lovers love about books! Not critics or authors opinions, but normal people.
So:
-What do books need to have to capture your attention?
-Is there anything that turns you off?
-How do you like your characters? Unusual, relatable, your age... etc
-Anything else you think I should know :)

Please leave your location with your response (Like I would Say: Jess, South Australia). I may or may not need to use it in my report.

Jessica, I've moved your topic to 'Book Related Banter' as it's to do with books :)

If another mod thinks I moved it to the wrong spot feel free to move it.

thats a cool assignment!
and id be happy to help although I'm sure there are much more interesting people then me:D


-What do books need to have to capture your attention?
I'm a sucker for a cool/witty title and a pretty cover (sad i know "never judge a book by its cover *hangs head in shame*)

-Is there anything that turns you off?
I hate books that look like every other book on the shelves i.e how every one is trying to make their cover look like the twilight ones...yuck, i also hate books that trump their own horn all over the covers and inside tabs

-How do you like your characters?
i like my character unusual but still relatable somehow strange enough that they almost have a life nothing like yours ..so you can escape into their world you still want to be able to feel emotion for them
-Anything else you think I should know :)
I like stories that have nothing to do with me or ordinary things i can find in life. when i read i read to escape and find new adventures :D

hope i help aha

This is a very difficult question to answer, as a reader and a wanna-be writer. I try to read a lot of different genres to get an understanding of the genre and/or different writing styles. But i will try and do my best to answer these questions from my perspective.

-What do books need to have to capture your attention? I often like to books to have intregue or mystery, but as a general rule, I like to go away from a book with something to think about; Frankenstein (i use this example cuz it’s my favourite book) did to really well and I know of about 10 different interpretations of the story; i’m guess there is more.
-Is there anything that turns you off? I get easierly turned off by my own writing, but in others I think bad writing is the problem or it’s just downright weird (in a stupid way)
-How do you like your characters? Flawed and aalot of the time an antihero.
-Anything else you think I should know? Writing a novel is a big project and will be a lot of hard word. I recommend become obsessed with the character and the world you create, this really helps and reflects well in the novel.

I'll give this a crack..

-What do books need to have to capture your attention?
I love books that have truth in them, it's why I enjoy reading biographies, autobiographies and true stories.
Also the cover of the book must grab my attention, i think this part is from my backrground in art/graphic design. I often look through discounted books and will pick the one that strikes me the most just on the cover and nothing else, yup, not even reading the blurb.

I've found the books I've enjoyed the most have been from either Indians or China, something about the way they write usually captures me everytime.

-Is there anything that turns you off?
Books that take to long to get to the point. I understand you need to set a picture/background but sometimes books go a bit overboard.

Or books that feel the need to repeat themselves. It's hard to discribe but I found it happening alot in Warriors by Erin Hunter. She kept repeating things that just seemed unneeded. So i stopped reading the series.

-How do you like your characters? Unusual, relatable, your age... etc
When I read about a character I need to get a picture formed in my head about them. I dislike books where I keep guessing who is who. I also dislike characters with big names..lol

I also like to see some truth in the character so I could believe they might be real.

-Anything else you think I should know :)
I read many books that have nothing to do with how I live my life. I like looking at other peoples imagination, other peoples lives.

I REALLY love it when a book can MOVE me. When I've finished the book I am still thinking about the characters. To me that is a powerful storytelling.

Laura,Tasmania

Jessica, I really need the story to 'grab' me in the first couple of pages! A good mystery/thriller to keep me intrigued, with a plot that twists and turns until the end, then a twist at the finish!

Repetition is something that turns me off, plus like Laura says, long or indecipherable names..lol Takes the flow of the story away, if you are forever trying to work out the person's name!

And a memorable tale, one that keeps you thinking about it, and telling your friends how great it is, is THE BEST!

Good luck, Brenda, NSW.

-What do books need to have to capture your attention?

An interesting sounding plot in the genres I like (sf, fantasy or mystery). The prospect of adventure, with a hint of romance.

-Is there anything that turns you off?

Too many things to list completely, but most of all lack of interesting plot, and bad gender politics. [Ie. women who are not people, but quest objects, prizes, fridged.]

-How do you like your characters? Unusual, relatable, your age... etc

Sensible. I have a lot of trouble enjoying a book revolving around ditzy or too stupid to live characters.

-Anything else you think I should know :)

Reading is a different experience for every single reader.

Andrea, Sydney, NSW.

You want normal people? Here? Mmmh - wish you luck! (I am definitely not High School Project material - sorry.)

-What do books need to have to capture your attention?

Something that hasn't been done to death. No wizards or vampires or anorexia or WWII please!

-Is there anything that turns you off?

1) Bad editing. 2) Characters that I don't care about - they can sometimes be 'bad' but at least make them have what they think is a good reason for what they do. 3) Yucky stuff like child abuse or descriptions of gore. 4) Pointlessness - make me feel like I didn't waste my time reading it. 5) Characters or situations that are stupid or unbelievable. I mean, 'suspension of disbelief' is good for sci-fi or fantasy, but it can still be 'believable. However, when I mutter 'yeah right, like that'd happen' at a book I usually stop reading.

-How do you like your characters? Unusual, relatable, your age... etc

Not stupid. Sincere. I want to know them, care about them, believe in them and in their motivations, and I want them to grow & learn & become better people.

-Anything else you think I should know :)

No matter what you write, some people will love it, others will not. Some people seek out the kind of gory books I can't stand, for example. Write about something that makes you feel passionate, and that sincerity should come through for your readers and make (many of us) feel more engaged in your story.

Cheryl, Nevada, USA

Carmel wrote: "Jacqueline wrote: "You want normal people? Here? Mmmh - wish you luck! (I am definitely not High School Project material - sorry.)"

Now now Jacqueline, I think there are a few of us that are n..."

lol zactly. Being 'normal' isn't actually normal anyways XD

Being abnormal is normal..If that makes sense..lol

Jess, for me a book has to have a bright, interesting, eyecatching cover. I know that sounds awful ("don't judge a book by it's cover") but that is just what appeals to me! XD
A turn-off would be dragging the plot out for longer than it has to be- you need to get the amount of suspension just right and drop little hints along the way- other wise it just gets boring!
As for characters I think they should be believable and as realistic as possible. Maybe doing some careful observations of the people around you will help you to get this right.
Something else you may want to take into consideration is that ALL authors say that their first draft is nothing like their final copy. As this is a school thing it might be an idea to start preparing early so you don't do something I would do and leave it all to the last minute. The more drafts you do, the better your final copy will be.
Hope this helps! :)

★ Jessica ★ wrote: "(I dont know where else to put this topic, so mods, please feel free to move it where ever it belongs!)

Okay, so Im in year ten this year, and as a requirement to pass the MYP and get full bene..."

*Jessica* - I assume you've written essays for English classes. How were they rated by your teachers?

The good thing about your project is that you're not trying to please a publisher! That said, you have a lot of good advice and guidelines here, but in the end you must go with your gut feeling about what you want to write.

Do you have any idea of the genre you would prefer to write in? It's certainly best to write about types of people, places, situations of which you have some experience. Then again, you can also let your imagination run riot! Though I think incorporating a certain amount of research will impress the teacher. Any facts, get them right. From then on, it's totally up to you. Your baby.

Another idea is to find out if you're a "plotter" or a "pantser". Do you need to map out everything beforehand or do you "write by the seat of your pants" as in "fly by the seat of your pants"? In other words, start with an idea you're in love with and let the words flow?

Start with the certain knowledge that your first draft won't be your last. GET THE STORY ONTO THE COMPUTER without going back to edit too much. That's for the second or third draft. And, please, get your spelling and grammar correct. You're obviously an intelligent girl and I'm not trying to insult you by saying that, but it's astonishing how many people fall down in this area. I had the good fortune to go to school in an era when those things were thoroughly taught. I don't know your school but I do hope their instruction in this area is sound.

It's a terrific idea for a project and I wish you the greatest success with it. If only as a learning experience. My first attempts at writing were pretty bad, but I'm told the basic talent shone through. I'm sure you can come up with a smart novel and the only thing to remember is, you cannot possibly please everyone. It must be all you.

Monya (aka Mary)
Queensland

A strong, authentic and engaging voice would be the thing that captures (and hopefully holds) my attention. Looking for Alibrandi is a great example of this or Jane Eyre.

Hi Jessica,

First I have to say this is a fantastic set of questions, and I might want to blog about this more (with your permission). I'm not sure anyone here can honesty give you the right answers (assuming there are any), but I'll give it a crack and give you my best answers. Feel free to toss them in the bin if they don't work for you--and I can't guarantee they will.

What do books need to have to capture your attention?

Memorability. If a book isn't piquing my interest from the cover and blurb (and if you're very lucky the first two or three pages), I'm less likely to read it, good or bad.

It also needs to be enticing--if those elements don't make me want to read the book, I won't. This is one of the important qualifiers--you can grab my attention, but that doesn't mean I'm going to want to read it.

My suggestion would be to go for something interesting and different. You can make money out of derivative fiction, certainly (the slew of wizard school narratives after Harry Potter made it big and Vampire narratives after Twilight are indicative of this), but that's not something I personally enjoy. I'm also worried that derivative fiction is going to be banking on its derivative nature to sell, rather than on its own merits.

Is there anything that turns you off?

Women. Oh wait, we were talking fiction? Sorry. Um... characters as pants? AKA the Mary Sue syndrome? Again, it does work for a number of authors, but I personally dislike it.

I also dislike characters who are so flawed that I find them neither sympathetic or empathic. I'm all for flawed characters, but if I don't at least like some of them, I end up not caring what happens to them or how the story unfolds...and I put the book down. The works of Sara Douglass are a study in flawed characters, and she's done amazingly well and I love her writing (and bought a number of her books)--only to find they're books I've read once and never wanted to touch again because I literally came to hate the characters in them. Again though, that's probably just me: you can't please everyone.

How do you like your characters? Unusual, relatable, your age... etc

Again, memorable and real. Ideally, I want characters to be characters with their own personality, rationality and motivations. I dislike it when they're simply there to fill in the demands of plot, like "evil antagonist--look, it says so on the page". Of course, occasionally you're going to have to have characters like "Security guard who gets killed on page 70" but they're still characters in their own stories (which aren't being told), and it would be nice if they don't feel like 'just' cannon fodder--or plot fodder as the case may be.

As per my above response, I like at least some characters (preferably the protagonists) to be sympathetic. I want you to make me care about them and what happens to them.

Anything else you think I should know :)

You might be asking the wrong questions. The questions you really want to ask are things like:
+ What story do I want to tell?
+ Whose story is it? Who is the hero (or heroine) of this tale?
+ What makes this story worth telling? Why should my book be picked up over awesome book X?
+ What is it about this story that grabs the readers' interest?

The final question is one that I think relates more to your personal situation rather than your idea for writing a novel, which is:
+ Should I be writing this as a novel?

The reason I pose this question is twofold. Firstly, the story you wish to tell may not be a novel. It might be better suited as a short story, a novella, a series or even a short film or a series of artworks. Is the novel the correct medium for your tale?

Secondly, you need to question whether or not you have the time to write and finish a novel to the standard you believe is acceptable (no one else, just you), given that you are working with the artificial time constraint of your assignment. I'm not sure from your original post if you have less than a year, or two years to do this, but if you don't already have a story in mind, it's something I think you should think about. Not that I'm saying you can't write a novel, or that you can't write a good novel (I think anyone can), but whether or not you are willing to devote time each day to writing it, editing it, polishing it and if necessary, redrafting it completely and making drastic changes to plot and characters to make it work--in the timeframe that you have and given your other commitments.

I would suggest doing your own version of NaNoWriMo soon as an exercise to get something down and see if you are able to put in that level of work for a month. It might be an unrealistic entry to the novelling process, but if you can do that, you can certainly write a novel.

Matthew Lang
Victoria

Matthew- What did you mean by 'I'm not sure anyone here can honesty give you the right answers (assuming there are any)..'? Since these are just the opinions on what people enjoy/dislike when reading, I don't quite see what you mean, sorta sounds like you are implying people are giving false answers?

I'd hope people responding to this thread are replying truthfully to help aide Jessica along. :)
To me, I saw these questions as a way help broaden her thought process, gathering different peoples thoughts/views/opinions when it came to being a reader.

Matthew wrote: "Hi Jessica,

First I have to say this is a fantastic set of questions, and I might want to blog about this more (with your permission). I'm not sure anyone here can honesty give you the right answe..."

Wow, Matthew, what a well thought out and constructive set of opinions you have given Jessica. She should have lots of things to think about with all the responses from everyone here...:)

Laura wrote: "Matthew- What did you mean by 'I'm not sure anyone here can honesty give you the right answers (assuming there are any)..'?"

What I meant is that there aren't any right answers just for the reasons you give: it's all largely subjective.

My assumption was that part of the reason for the questions was to inform Jessica's own writing (in addition to the report), and I don't think that's the best way to approach writing a novel, because I would find writing to someone else's expectations soul destroying over the time it would take to write and polish a book (unless you can bang out a book in 8 weeks, which is something I have not mastered). For most people, especially fledgling writers, writing a book is a long process and a hard one, and if you are not passionate about and fully committed to telling the story you are telling, it's going to be even harder to maintain the enthusiasm when the plotlines start to show massive holes and characters start refusing to do what you want them to (typically around the end of the first third to the halfway mark of the draft).

As a writer, your first commitment has to be to write the story you want to write. Whether or not that story can be a profitable commercial enterprise is an entirely different matter. If you want both then you have to find the stories that you want to write that can also be profitable commercially. However, I believe you still do that by starting with the story and finding where it fits into the marketplace, rather than starting with the marketplace and trying to reverse engineer the story to fit it. Not that that's impossible, it's just harder.

Wow! Thank you so much for the responses so far everyone, Ive had a skim through and they look great! Keep them coming in!

Of course Matthew, you can definitely blog about this (can you please attach the link if you do?)

Will certainly do. Cheers :)

Ahh, alright, I get what you mean Matthew :)

Just to piggyback on Laura's question of Matthew, here's my 2 cents. I assumed (and hope) that Jessica's questions are not about her starting point.

I would imagine that a writer like Jessica has a story or a thought to share, and wants to get ideas on the best way to do so. Matthew's point about making sure the story fits the form is good here - I can't tell you how often I've read a short story expanded to fit a whole book - bleh.

Then, it seems to me, she looks at our answers to her questions, and makes sure that her rough draft has at least some of the elements that we readers want it to have.

For example, if she really wants to write about vampires, and has a draft of a story involving them, now she goes and looks at our suggestions and is reminded that derivative fiction needs special care... so she adds something, or slants in a new direction, or changes something so that her novel is not just derivative but has some more memorable and creative ideas to make the reader feel like s/he is glad s/he picked up the book.

At least, that's my take. As well as I can explain it given I'm sitting here waiting and waiting for the gas man to call so I can let him turn on the gas in the apartment so we can get along on this move!

Thank you everybody for all your suggestions!
I am just starting to piece all this information together (as well as the same thread I made in 1 or 2 other groups.)
Its an incredible help, and fascinating to see everybody's different opinions. I'll let you know my final marks at the end of the year, though it'll still be another few months before I even start the good copy of the novel.
I am till tossing up between a few ideas: A dark mystery set in victorian London, or a black-comedy set in Sydney/Rural Australia.

I'd rather read the latter, if you're looking for that kind of a vote! ;)

I'd enjoy the Aussie theme too Jessica!

Depends on how confident you are with each setting. Assuming you know Sydney/Rural Australia well there'd be less research involved. Victorian London may give you more scope to make things up, but historical accuracy buffs could nit pick.

M

Good luck with your project Jessica. I really hope you have a lot of fun crafting the story and that the subsquent editing does not become too much of a chore.

As an MYP teacher, Jessica, I know exactly what you are going through. One of my students once wrote a novel and even had it published (albeit by his father). It was obviously written by a year 10 student.
Since you don't have a lot of time, I suggest that you write about something that you know. If you have had experiences in rural Australia, OK!! Do you know Sydney really well or should you stay with the city you know?
Your voice needs to be genuine, and if you write in first person, remember the rules. You can be observant, but you can't read peoples' minds. If you write in 3rd person, make sure you know what characters of a different age from you would probably say and do. Listen to people and the expressions they use. This rule applies whichever "person" you choose to write in..
Probably best to set your novel in current times, and then current media figures are easier to work out. Things must "add up". eg KR can't be the prime-minister when OBinL is assassinated in Pakistan.
When I am marking my students' personal project novels, I will look for all the things that previous contributors have suggested.
Good luck! Hope you can be published one day.
PS I am not an MYP teacher in Australia - so no personal interest - just wishing you well.

Just letting everyone know this project was completed a while ago, and we had the presentations of all projects today at school, and we finally got to see our marks.
8 months of hard work, lots of stress, counting for 50% of our overall grade, and I got a 7/7. Full friggin' marks. I'm over the moon :D

A big thank you to everyone who helped in this thread. Your answers were pretty much the backbone of my assignment, as was always able to come back here for guidance. My mentor also wishes to thank you all for your help :)

WOWOWOWOWOW!!!!! Congratulations Jess. That is brilliant! Well done:)

Thanks Brenda, Michael and Carmel :)

whoop whoop
well done Jess!

I was told I look like mario from mario cart lol

AH Mario that's who it is! lol

Jess, big congrats :D