Fans of Interracial Romance discussion

Hello everyone,
I came across this group accidently. I am looking forward to participating in the discussions. Growing up in India / Africa, interracial interaction let alone marriages were a taboo. Not only that but in India the cast system played a major role in dictating the do and don’t and this topic was the staple diet of Bollywood movies of yesteryear and even now. Interestingly enough things are changing but ever so slowly. With rapid globalisation and the advances in social sites like Face book things will certainly change at a quicker pace.
Sadly I read that last year some 5000 honour killings took place in Northern India alone. Honour killings are where the woman is killed by the male family members to save face or loss of family honour. Such practices are found throughout the Middle East but also occur in Asian and Muslim communities in the UK and other Western countries.

Unfortunately some people, women and mostly men, fear the future and dislike the present. They want to return to the relative (for them) safety of the past, when the rules were black and white and everyone knew and lived by them. Women and others of lower caste or darker color knew their place, which was subordinate, and men ruled over everyone else except the man who was bigger than them and could beat them.
There are people in every country and society who want to return to those days...particularly those who would have their status diminished by equality for all. Those who had been on the bottom, not surprisingly, prefer the new ways. It has ever been thus...but humanity has a way of moving forward almost despite itself. And once a genie like freedom or equality is let out of the bottle, it's impossible to stuff it back in. That fact never stops those who want to try.

I think you are so right Fiona. People fear change however things are a bit complex when it comes to Honour killings.
Firstly it is the male who feels threatened by the loss of his honour. This could be a real or perceived threat.
What I can’t understand is that this desire to protect or avenge ones honour is so strong that it overshadows blood ties or bonds. Father or brother or even the cousin will kill the female member of the family if they feel she has bought shame to the family name.
I suspect that this is more a tribal thing and that one is seen within the tribe to be a weak person if one does not extract one’s honour.
Sometime loss of honour can be seen to have occurred if the male member thinks that the female member might carry out an act but has not yet done so. Accidently showing ones face to someone who is not a family member could be seen as loss of honour. Women have been killed just because they have been seen talking to a male stranger. I have read there have been cases in Jordan where rape victims have been killed because it is thought they have defiled the family honour. The fact that they are the victims here and did not consent to sex is neither here nor there.
In Jordan women prefer to live in jail to avoid being murdered by their family. The statistics are frightening.
Governments seem to do nothing. Occasionally they voice mild objections but when the perpetrators of honour killing are brought to justice the punishments are puny.

Honor killings sicken and disturb me. I wish that the government would step in to protect women in these cases. To me it is a sign of the persistent misogyny in our society.

It has ever been thus. Unfortunately male is still considered to be the apex of achievement,and female is somewhere below. Why else are tomboys admired and celebrated (she's aspiring above her station, not surprising at all), but boys who act "girlish" are "sissies", and embarrassing to the family. It is also the root of homophobia, since hetero males find it impossible to imagine why on earth you would want to diminish your status by becoming taking on a female role.

As for honor killings, it is the ultimate expression of the "females are expendable" belief, as well as the over-importance of keeping females "pure". Instead of locking up all of the women, I say if men are so totally unable to control themselves from attacking innocent females, THEY are the ones who should not be allowed to walk around in public unaccompanied.

Good points, Fiona.

Hello Raj. Welcome to the group.

I don't understand the concept behind honor killings--how a family member's life could be considered less important than someone else's pride. I can't imagine what women in cultures like that go through. It deeply saddens me.

Hello Delaney
Sadly sometimes the mother in law collude with the son to get rid of a daughter in law so the son can re marry and they ( the family ) can get more money if through a dowry.
Having written a novel based on honour killings I am still at a loss to explain the psyche of the murderers. It defies all logic except that it’s some male machismo thing.
The loss of face or honour is really ingrained in particular culture and does not have any foundation in Islam or any other religious book. As always people take a sentence from holy books and twist them to suit their own agenda or needs. Honour killings are found in many cultures with diverse religious backgrounds.
Like you I find the practice incomprehensible. The question I would like to ask is why is the west not doing something about it? Where are the likes of Bono? Perhaps there is no knighthood or some gratuitous honour to be had in highlighting the plight of these women?

Fiona you make some very good points and I am in agreement with you.

Raj, how is it that the west can stop it when their treatment of women isn't much better? Even though we in the States like to believe we're above actual acts of violence, it occurs very much here in different forms, such as spousal abuse which is prevalent in our society, music which degrades women, and men who believe marriage or commitment means "ownership" whereupon they feel the right to "kill" the woman if she leaves him. Just last month, a woman I know was killed by her husband because she was going to leave him. This was a man who was a manager of a company, well liked and respected by his co-workers, friends, church, but because his marriage was ending, it was "okay" to just let himself go off the deep end and murder his wife in front of their two children. And this happens a lot. Guys who think just because their marriage is ending it's okay to kill the wife or kill the kids, it happens a lot.

What you speak of has been an ongoing plight. There has been much outcry I remember more than 20 years ago when there have been rallies in Europe against genital mutilation, rape camps held by the Bosnians during their war, and there was an honor killing in London 20 years ago where public outrage and much was said about it then. How can the West go into these small villages, walk among nomadic peoples and tell them to cut out the honor killings, the genital mutilation, the rapes? The majority of them hate us anyway and think we interfere with them too much.

Until these people wake up, stop warring with each other, learn common sense instead of following religions which have been twisted, misinterpreted and teach segregation vs. community with each other. Until this occurs, people will keep behaving like wild animals.

Not to sound completely dismal, small wonders occur all the time. If your book finds its way into the right hands and inspire a few people who will take a stand, that's all you need. Small miracles.

Chaeya

Hi Chaeya
Thank you for responding.
Human relationships are complex as you well know. Human beings are complex. The nice guy who is a manager suddenly picks up a gun and kills his wife. They call it an act of passion. This carries a lighter sentence I think?

Honour killings, genital mutilations on the other hand as you have so rightly said are ingrained in the tribal laws. They are hard to change but nothing is impossible. What is disturbing is that these ideas become ingrained in the young generations born in the west from a very early age. The young adults are only following what they see in their household. They think that if their father beats their mother then they have the right to beat their wife.

By the way I have also seen at first hand women abuse men too. Sure the numbers are fewer but in Asian society women wield enormous power. They effectively rule the house.

It was not too long ago that women did not have the vote in the UK but within 100 years Mrs Thatcher became Prime minister. Right now you have an African American as president of the US.
Things do change.

Slavery was abolished in 1875 but it carried on in Saudi Arabia till the 1960’s. Pressure was brought up on the then King by the US and other nations to abolish it and so it was. Having said that there is still slavery in the Arab world.

As you have noted there was an outcry about Honour killings and genital mutilations 20 years ago in the UK and every now and then this subject hits the headlines for a few weeks and then is forgotten.
The voice of Amnesty International or other human rights groups go unheard or fall on deaf ears because taking up the cause doesn’t win votes at the ballot box.

Yes I do hope that my novel finds its way into the right hands and inspires someone to draw a line in the sand. Perhaps someone like Michael Moore who is not afraid to draw the line.

K.R. Caldwell thank you for your welcome. Yes Fear is the real enemy! The men loosening control.
The present diabolical situation in Libya is not about Gadaffi losing power but more about him losing face. That is his driving force.

Speaking of, this just recently happened. It's really angering!!!!

http://www.usatoday.com/communities/o...

Thank you for that Chaeya.
This is not an isolated incidence.
It’s just despicable and the funny thing is that the elders condone it.
The very people who should be standing up for the rights of the individual.
That is why I wrote my book. To bring to light some of the things that go on in some Islamic countries.
The interesting thing is that none of the reviews mention anything about the vagaries of the culture.

This is awful, but I'm happy to see that perhaps there will be some justice because the villagers have turned against the elders and the murderers are being prosecuted. I hope it doesn't just die down and they get away with with what they did.

Reading that story just breaks my heart. That poor young woman! She was raped, and she's the one who gets beaten instead of protected and counseled.

Even if they had been having an affair, why wasn't he beaten too? She didn't have an affair by herself!

I read a story awhile back where a 12 year old girl in India was raped, she went to report the crime, and the police held her at the station for several days and gang raped her. THE POLICE!! She wasn't traumatized enough?

These men are monsters. Absolute monsters!

The police have a sub culture of their own in all countries.

They think they can get away with it. There are always some bad apples somewhere even in the West.

Once you put people in a uniform and give them the idea that they are the law then some of them think they are above the law.

Sadly in countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan this is a very common occurrence. Again I tried to bring this out in my novel - the religious police and their almost absolute power. Police gang rapes occur in every society including the US and UK.

It is very sad for these victims who go to the police of help. In the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo one sees what happens in institutions that are there to help.

In the West we hear about the odd case but imagine how many cases go unreported. They run into the 1000’s if not 100,000’s around the world every year.

Delaney the following incidence occurred in a Western country.

A payout to an autistic man jailed for more than two years on a wrongful rape conviction should be increased to at least $1 million, top lawyers say.

Mr XXXXX, 41, was found guilty of raping a 22-year-old woman in 2005 after a police detective lied while questioning him on the case.

He was sentenced to eight years in prison, but the Court of Appeal quashed his conviction in 2007. Shortly afterwards, new DNA tests excluded Mr XXXXX as the attacker.

I agree that in any country you will find corrupt police. The real issue is power, though.

Abuse of power can be found in all aspects of society--poor, rich, educated, uneducated, etc. Whenever an individual(s) feels they have power over another, there's only a fine line between doing what's right and abuse of that power.

Hi Delany,
I agree with what you say.
Here is another example of what goes on http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-afric...

Welcome Raj,

The idea as a whole is so disturbing. I only know a bit of the history on it from snippets here and there. It would be a perfect world if things like this didnt' exist/or knowing that they do a light is shined on it enough that it would stop. Thanking for bringing some light to it.

Hi Ebony Dreams
What is a perfect world.
Here is some more insight into a world that the West knows so little about. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middl...