Boxall's 1001 Books You Must Read Before You Die discussion

I think Niccollo Machavelli's The Prince must be on the list!

Diane wrote: "Gerald wrote: "Diane wrote: "The Swimming Pool Library."
Tell us why.

"

It is an obscure book that is a wee bit too graphic and explicit in regards to casual gratuitous homosexual sex, has a..." Very helpful. Thanks, Diane.

Jerry wrote: "Gerald wrote: "Cormac McCarthy is one of my all time favorite writers. Although Blood Meridian was a little hard to stomach, I found it worth reading. All the Pretty Horses, The Crossing, No Countr..."
Most of the world disagrees with me on 2666, which is okay. I can't be right all the time. What about The Savage Detectives? I hated that one too.

Gerald wrote: "Diane wrote: "Gerald wrote: "Diane wrote: "The Swimming Pool Library."
Tell us why.

"

It is an obscure book that is a wee bit too graphic and explicit in regards to casual gratuitous homosexual s..."

How do these books even get published? I guess it depends on who you know. What do you think? Richard

Gerald wrote: "Jerry wrote: "Gerald wrote: "Cormac McCarthy is one of my all time favorite writers. Although Blood Meridian was a little hard to stomach, I found it worth reading. All the Pretty Horses, The Cross..."
When I read All The Pretty Horses I decided I'd not read anymore Cormac for awhile-too intense-and too close to home(I live in Mexico) but The Road returned me to Cormac-As for Bollaño-I have no intention of reading any more of his books unless someone can convince me-How about the Alexandria quartet?

Atonement
The Cider House Rules
The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time

It's not that there are so many books on this list that I don't think should be on there - I actually really love "Curious Incident" ... it's just that I feel they beat out much better, more influential books. Where is that other thread?

Jerry wrote: "Gerald wrote: "Jerry wrote: "Gerald wrote: "Cormac McCarthy is one of my all time favorite writers. Although Blood Meridian was a little hard to stomach, I found it worth reading. All the Pretty Ho..."
Hey, I live in Mexico too--San Miguel de Allende. Maybe we're neighbors! Read the Alexandria Quartet when I was in college, fifty years ago, and thought it was the greatest think I'd ever read. I boought new used paperback set to bring to Mexico to read again some day, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Gerald wrote: "Jerry wrote: "Gerald wrote: "Jerry wrote: "Gerald wrote: "Cormac McCarthy is one of my all time favorite writers. Although Blood Meridian was a little hard to stomach, I found it worth reading. All..."
I live in Ciudad Guzman,Jalisco and I'm trying to read all the prize winners plus a few that didn't win a prize like James Joyce and etc.

Jerry,
Interested in sharing notes about living in Mexico? My email is [email protected].
Gerry

How do these books even get published? I guess it depends on who you know. What do you think? Richard

explicit doesn't mean it shouldn't be published, whether it is explicit in violence or in sex. there are many classics of modern literature that have very graphic sex (not to mention violence). i am getting the sinking feeling that what rubs folks the wrong way about this book is the fact that the sex is homosex, which is irritating if that is truly the case. i didn't particularly care for The Swimming Pool Library because i thought the writing was pretentious. but you're not going to find anything less graphic in the works of henry miller or anais nin. and it's also important to note that Swimming Pool Library is clearly 'genre fiction'...and with most genre fiction (horror, westerns, scifi, queer fiction, etc), you have to wade through a lot of dross to get to the actual gems. i don't think Swimming Pool Library is without merit, but i also don't believe it belongs on this list - but NOT because of the graphic homosex. rather, because it does not have the multi-leveled resonance of a true classic of any genre. Mark

The swimming pool library was one of the books on the list I really enjoyed, as for the Taebeck mountains I think it's been translated into French.Still doesn't help me.

Amanda wrote: "I think my problem with graphic violence or sex in books is that I don't see the purpose it serves except just to be shocking. I think it takes WAY more talent and skill to be subtle in writing. "

i agree in a way. too often it leads to lazy, lowest common denominator writing. but if the theme of the book is one that is concerned with violence or sexuality, i think it is important to be able to portray that theme graphically, otherwise the avoidance comes across as a cop-out to me. but in general i don't see the need for pornographic descriptions of either violence or sex. only when it is truly important and only when the author has the skill to portray sex or violence without being trite or self-indulgent.

I really, really hated:

Sexing the Cherry - Was there a story there somewhere?
Nightwood - Pages and pages of blah blah blah.
The Good Soldier - Yawn.

And I have to say that I'm SO glad Twilight wasn't included. I realize it's the big thing lately, but it's SO poorly written, and the series just gets worse and worse by the book.

And yes, on exclusions, where IS Tale of Two Cities? Seriously one of the greatest books ever.

But Mark and Amanda, isn't it at least with some of these books the case that they are included on the list because of what they started? I imagine this to be the case with Lady Chatterley's Lover and Fanny Hill that were very shocking in their day but are not so much these day whereas a book about very graphic homosexual sex can probably still freak out a huge percentage of the reading public. So they are included because of their importance in putting sex in various forms on the map as a worthy thing to write and read about. Guess the same is true of O's story, Bataille's book about the eye (can't remember the exact title right now) and books by Marquis de Sade...

Amanda wrote: "Mark- my thoughts exactly. I realized how I felt about it when I read Ishiguro's Remains of the Day right after I read D.H. Lawrence's Lady Chatterley's Lover. The sexual tension in Remains of the ..."

Yes, you spelled it right.

Lamerestbelle wrote: "Anna wrote: "I hate Paul Coelho !!!!!!
Same here. Those books are on very simplified philosophy of I-don't-know-what"
Thanks Anna for supporting our opinions
"

Couldn't agree more!

Kim wrote: "I really, really hated:
Nightwood - Pages and pages of blah blah blah.

i thought Nightwood was boring at times, but the writing was strange and beautiful. hallucinatory even. but it made me at times impatient too.

Saturday by Ian McEwan

It was painful to finsish and so terribly slow.

Christina Stind wrote: "But Mark and Amanda, isn't it at least with some of these books the case that they are included on the list because of what they started? I imagine this to be the case with Lady Chatterley's Lover ..."

I agree that something like Lady Chatterly's Lover should be included because it is a seminal book. I just think that there are much better examples of queer fiction than Swimming Pool Library, which is not a bad book - and not a great one either. Young and Evil is far more seminal. Giovanni's Room and A Boy's Own Story have writing that is even more poetic, without the pretension. Boys of Life hits harder, The Carnivorous Lamb is more multi-leveled, the novels of James Purdy are more evocative of certain eras, etc...mainly I just think that Swimming Pool Library could have been replaced with far superior examples of quality fiction from this genre. Still, to give that novel its due, it was very well-received when it first came out, mainly because the vast majority of novels in this genre are so often terribly written.

"Amsterdam" by Ian McEwan.

I don't think he really needs that many books on the list and this book disturbed me so much that I actually threw up after finishing it. Possibly I am just a wimp but I really didn't learn anything from this book at all and I did not enjoy it. Thank goodness it was short.

Mark wrote: "Christina Stind wrote: "But Mark and Amanda, isn't it at least with some of these books the case that they are included on the list because of what they started? I imagine this to be the case with ..."
Gore Vidal has contributed alot to same sex ideas-not my cup of tea,but I feel like I ubderstand the subject better thru Vidal

Margaret wrote: "i don't think Kafka on the Shore should be on there. i really like murakami but i hated this book! i read it after reading the Wind-Up Bird Chronicle which i thought was amazing. Kafka seemed to be..."

Wow, Margaret, Kafka is one of my all time favourite books and I find it to be so amazing all the way through. It was the book that opened my eyes for Murakami and now he's one of my favourite authors! I must admit that I haven't read Wind-up Birds yet - been saving that one a bit - but now I'm even more curious to read it.

Christina Stind wrote: "Margaret wrote: "i don't think Kafka on the Shore should be on there. i really like murakami but i hated this book! i read it after reading the Wind-Up Bird Chronicle which i thought was amazing. K..."
I just finished Kafka on the Shore and although I really enjoyed the beginning 2/3 of the book, I just couldn't figure out the ending. Was it me or were there a lot of unanswered plot twists in this book? I did enjoy the writing style and the audio version is beautifully narrated, but I came away disappointed. I do want to try Murakami again (he has so many titles on the list, so it's hard to avoid him!).

I would have to say "Possession" by A.S. Byatt. One of the few books I've put aside before finishing. Once it gets to the part where it just transcribes the letters--boy, snooze fest. That said, I'm going to a "Possession" reading by Byatt later this month-ha!

I hated American Psycho; the unpleasant protagonist and graphic scenes of torture really got to me, to the point where I basically skimmed the last 100 pages to see if anything else happened. It didn't.

Also hated Fugitive Pieces. It didn't work as a novel AT ALL, you never really got a sense of any of the characters (especially the women, who seem to exist only to fulfill the menfolk) except for the Greek scientist who dies halfway through the book, and gratuitous scenes of Nazi atrocities are thrown in, I felt, to bulletproof the book against any real criticism. "See?" the book seemed to be saying. "I am IMPORTANT, because I am talking about the HOLOCAUST."

On the other hand, I am a big fan of The Blind Assassin, and a few other books that people hated whose names I don't remember after my Fugitive Pieces rant.

I can't remember, was Super-Cannes on the list? It certainly shouldn't be. It is one of the most senselessly deplorable things I have ever read!

The Catcher in the Rye tops many of these sorts of lists, but I can't think why. It wasn't particularly entertaining and I didn't feel it had too much of merit to say...

Paula wrote: "The Taebeck Mountains - not to sound completely Euro-centric, but as far as I can tell, it's a 10-volume series that is only available in Korean."

Ditto. They should revamp the list and make it English literature only. It's not right to go about comparing translations and original texts. I quite like this list, myself, it's must more specific: http://www.time.com/time/2005/100book...

Sun wrote: "Ditto. They should revamp the list and make it English literature only. It's not right to go about comparing translations and original texts. I quite like this list, myself, it's must more specific: http://www.time.com/time/2005/100books/t..."

Do you mean only those available in English translation or only those originally written in English?

Wide Sargasso Sea.

I loved Jane Eyre but I hated Rhys's prequel to it. She should have just left Rochester's former wife a mystery. It was better that way.

The Buddha of Suburbia by Hanif Kureishi - I really did not like that book! I only finished reading it because it was a book club read.

Kayla wrote: "Wide Sargasso Sea. I loved Jane Eyre but I hated Rhys's prequel to it. She should have just left Rochester's former wife a mystery. It was better that way."

Wow, and I loved it. It was a feminist view of what sorts of character could lead a man to fall in love with an exotic woman and then, when those characteristics are transplanted like a hothouse flower, discover that she cannot adapt to the society in which he expects her to live. I dearly love Jane Eyre, but I was always curious about the story of the first Mrs. Rochester. I like it when the story of the "bad guy" is given insight. It wasn't a perfect book, but few such books are.

I know this is the upcoming group read, but I really disliked The Poisonwood Bible. I found it very long winded,and even pointless. Plus, when comparing it with some of the amazing books on the list, it by no means even belongs in the same category.
I'll save the rest of my rant for when the discussion for this book starts.

Jessie wrote: "I know this is the upcoming group read, but I really disliked The Poisonwood Bible. I found it very long winded,and even pointless. Plus, when comparing it with some of the amazing book..."

Awww... I wanna know now :(
I'm half with you though. I liked the first half when they're all still living in the village but I hated how preachy it got after that, especially in Leah's chapters

Willard and His Bowling Trophies by Richard Brautigan.

I love Brautigan but Willard is dull and mostly unimaginative. Also, it has been out of print since forever. I have a copy in paperback but there can't be more than a few hundred in the whole world. Is there anyone here who's ever read it?Willard and His Bowling Trophies

Daniel,

I have not read Willard, but I am a Brautigan fan and you have sparked my curiosity. I'd never even heard of it. Given your review, though, I don't know that it's worth the $5.15 plus shipping.

I gave my first love a copy of In Watermelon Sugar. Sigh! I actually re-read Willard last year. I was reminded of it because someone named Willard was running for Prez and he looks to me a little like a toucan.

If I didn't already have it and hadn't already read it I would probably go the $5.15 plus shipping. But I still don't see it as one of the 1001.

Maybe I'll try interlibrary loan first.

Logan wrote: "Blind Assassin- just so terribly, terribly, worthless."

I disagree. This book was magnificent.

Stephen King's The Shining. It's not his best...I would rather have seen The Stand or Dumas Key

i didn't find The Wasp Factory A Novel worthwhile read. Ok, it deals with another Holden Caulfield-like adolescent with slightly more troubling problems, and at first i was intrigued with finding out more about the psychology of this guy, but in the end it was really rather lame.....the end is supposed to be "very shocking and surprising", but honestly one can smell the type of secret which is going to be revealed all along the way- would have been shocking maybe some generations ago, but nowadays it's just another book dealing with this kind of issue (i don't want to spoil the read for those who don't know the book so i'm not going to say anymore....). i didn't hate the book, but i just don't see anything special or valuable in it which would qualify it for such a list.

I don't know why, not just one, but TWO books by Coelho made it to the list. He's a mediocre, plagiaristic writer. But well, I guess part of the idea behind the list is for publishing houses to sell books, and Coelho is a huge best-seller, if not anything else.

Lauli wrote: "I don't know why, not just one, but TWO books by Coelho made it to the list. He's a mediocre, plagiaristic writer. But well, I guess part of the idea behind the list is for publishing houses to sel..."

another Coelho-hater - welcome........

i absolutely agree - i can't stand Coelho, but i've made the experience that my friends who like him get really aggressive and defensive when i say so, as if someone were attacking themselves, it's a weird phenomenon...so in real life i just don't speak about my aversion any longer...but i love how many people here on GR share my opinion - we could found a "We hate Paolo Coelho"-group....

Bishop wrote: "Like her or hate her, Acker is on the list because she is one of the so-called experimental writers. In terms of the "development of the novel", she is worthy of a mention, I suppose.

Read White ..."
Bishop, as usual, I totally agree with your assessments here - TOTALLY! Keep them coming!

I would agree that no Palahniuk belongs on the list. He is, by far, a style over substance writer IMO. Most of his messages are just ham-fisted deliveries of Populist rhetoric.

Paulo Coelho

Catalina wrote: "I loved The Blind Assassin! I was so happy to see it on the list. I think, however, that has been one of the ones replaced in the new edition.

Bonfire of the Vanities should not be on ANY lis..."

I am in LOVE with Tom Wolfe! Haha...but then perhaps this is the point of the list--it's not just for being enriched, or about reading things that are universally loved, but for reading things you just might hate, too. It all broadens horizons.

Samantha, you are right. There is plenty of room for all of us in this great big lumpy tent. While I hated Blind Assassin, I completely adore Tom Wolfe and The Bonfire of the Vanities. Wouldn't you just love to go out for a nice champagne cocktail with Tom Wolfe? I know I would. AND Margaret Atwood would certainly be welcome at the table. Have you read her new one? It's nice to see you back on Goodreads!

And I challenge you to find a book that is "universally loved!"

Denise wrote: "And I challenge you to find a book that is "universally loved!""

I'm going to nominate "Green Eggs and Ham." But I'm sure there's some jerk out there who didn't like it.

Daniel wrote: "Willard and His Bowling Trophies by Richard Brautigan.

I love Brautigan but Willard is dull and mostly unimaginative. Also, it has been out of print since forever. I have a copy in paperback but..."
Hi, Daniel. Sorry I can't respond to your request, but I have a question for you. I read In Watermelon Sugar about a year ago and remember thinking that I had no idea what it's about! Have you read it?