The Sword and Laser discussion

Just wondering what everyone thought about Game of Thrones after watching it. I just finished watching it, thought it was really faithful to the book. This is the first show that I have watched on HBO, and all I can say is HBO does a really good job on their show, it was will worth all the hype and even more.

I thought the production value was fantastic. I have not watched any HBO programming in over a decade, so I am very impressed.

I think the story, so far, is extremely faithful the book. I love the characters. The world is extremely rich. Especially the land beyond the Wall and the Wall itself.

Looking forward to the next episodes.

Xris wrote: "Looking forward to the next episodes."

I enjoyed it, but found I couldn't stop thinking, "Ooh, I can't wait for this to happen." We have to wait a whole season for all the really good stuff.

Also, why in the hell is Tyrion so pretty? Not even a little bit of a hunchback?

I was a bit disappointed in three scenes; Where they discovered the dire wolf, Catelyn and Eddard speaking in the Godswood, and Robert and Eddard speaking in the crypt. In the book these three scenes set up everything that took place in the first book. They established the Starks, the history of most of the great families, and set up the rivalries that were to come. The scenes in the first episode left a lot to be desired.

I fear that the series' continuity with the book will suffer because of lack of time. Were it a 24 episode season, I would have more faith. But only having 10 hours worries me. Certainly fitting the next two books into 10 episodes will be an even greater challenge, especially Storm of Swords.

Nevertheless I was giddy to see the world I am such a big fan of come to life.

It's a little weird to see those violent and sexual scenes on the screen, especially female nudity. Somehow it's different than reading about it. Maybe some women will request more male nudity, but I guess it makes sense with the male dominated society at the time. Cool map.

Tamahome wrote: "It's a little weird to see those violent and sexual scenes on the screen, especially female nudity. Somehow it's different than reading about it. Maybe some women will request more male nudity, b..."

There was some young Stark man-flesh in there.

There's some kind of hbo online thing coming in may, but you might have to be a subscriber.

It was excellently put together and mostly true to the source, but I was a wee bit disappointed in some way I can't put my finger on. I think anticipation had built up my expectations to the height of the Wall itself, but instead of feeling overwhelmed by AWESOME, I mostly thought, "well-done." Maybe it's some kind of intangible feel to certain scenes that didn't fully come through, like Alex was saying above.

Despite that, it was a solid start and I'm very interested to see how the rest of the adaptation goes.

Matt and Tamahome, yeah apparently HBO's online streaming thing (HBO Go) will only be available if you are an HBO subscriber through a cable TV service. Too bad, I bet there's a lot of current non-subscribers who would pay for HBO streaming. For iTunes, HBO has famously waited til a season is over until making it available (boo!).

Jlawrence wrote: "I was a wee bit disappointed in some way I can't put my finger on."

I couldn't help but feel it was a bit too quick-paced (even with 10 hours; wow), and yet it felt paradoxically slow and somewhat dry because it was all setup.

There were so many characters and relationships and motivations and plot-threads to set up that we didn't get a whole lot of chance to see these people living. The discovery of the wolves was a non-event, for example, when it was such a cool, rich, compelling, "fantastic" moment in the book.

Even though I already know these characters, they seemed flat in the show because we barely spent any time with them. Could this be a result of trying to stay too close to the text of the novel?

I'm taking a wait-and-see approach, because "shit's about to get real," as they say.

Remember, a book can tell part of the story through the narration, and they don't have that on tv, unless they do a voice-over. They may have bitten off more than they can chew, telling the story almost completely through dialog.

This is why "the book is always better than the movie". There is just not enough time to develop character from such a dense and long book. The most jarring thing to me so far, since I just finished re-reading "A Game of Thrones" was how fast we got to Bran's Fall. I found myself wishing HBO had spent a little less time on things that didn't actually happen in the book, I.e. Jamie in the brothel with Tyrion, and more time with with dire wolf discovery scene or Tyrion and Jon Snow.
Overall though, I do like the effort and I feel like they've got a good feel for A Song of Ice & Fire.
By the way, did the Targaryens have violet eyes or do I need to adjust the colors on my TV?

I actually hate knowing what characters are thinking, though. Why am I reading fiction. :)

I really enjoyed it, but my wife and son weren't impressed. Having read (and loved) the books, I understood what was going on and who was who, but my wife and son were constantly confused and asking questions (which considerably lessened my enjoyment). Anyway, I think fans of the books will enjoy the show, but those unfamiliar with the story might not.

Haven't read the books as I assume most viewers of the show (it is HBO after all) have not. Can't say that I liked it much. Felt like a grosser, boob-filled Camelot-esque story.

Are the books that gruesome? Definitely not for me.

No shortage of female nudity. Definitely for boys.

Beyond that snarkiness, I don't really feel that the story held up on its own. I realize that it is at this point introductory in nature, but I thought it felt pretty disjointed and entirely too even. I have no particular connection to the characters so I don't particularly care what happens to any of them at this point.

I was impressed with the production but thought the acting was a little wooden.

I'm super uncomfortable with the fact that they thus far have removed all the consensual/non-incestuous sex and left in the rape/prostitution/twincest, this was most glaring in the final scene between Dany and Drogo. I'll withhold judgement for a few more episodes but I'm thus far unimpressed with the sexual politics.

Kate wrote: "This was most glaring in the final scene between Dany and Drogo."

Am I the only one on the Internet who remembers their initial encounters being non-consensual? I know I must have it all wrong, but I don't have the text in front of me.

I thought it was only when she decided to love him on her own terms (under the moonlight) that there was truly a balance in their relationship.

Anyway, I'd imagine they made the first encounter creepy and scary so that there is an arc for Dany, wherein she takes it upon herself to make the best of a bad situation and matures because of it.

Or maybe they did it just for me, as I'm the only person who thought it happened that way in the book.

aldenoneil wrote: "Kate wrote: "This was most glaring in the final scene between Dany and Drogo."

Am I the only one on the Internet who remembers their initial encounters being non-consensual? I know I must have it ..."

I've gone to the trouble of digging out the book to check, now obviously we're talking about a 13 year old girl whose creepy older brother has sold her to a horse lord so any discussion of consent is pretty laughable if we apply reality to the text but lets just go with what's on the page, (108-109 in the Voyager pb) he takes things extremely slowly with her until,
"No?" he said, and she knew it was a question.
She took his hand and moved it down to the wetness between her thighs. "Yes," she whispered as she put his finger inside her.

Now, the episode sort of cut off in mid scene, so maybe we'll revisit it in the next episode and it'll end more like the book, but if it dosen't... well it's problematic for Dany's arc if she ends up loving her rapist, instead of loving this guy who was pretty decent to her after a fashion, and if they go with not having her love him it's (view spoiler)[still a problem, because we won't care when Drogo dies, and Dany's motivation for what she does afterwards becomes a little murky (hide spoiler)]

I thought the first episode was fantastic. The visuals were beautiful and pretty close to what I had envisioned in my head while I was reading the book. I thought the story held up well, especially considering how much they needed to compress it for TV.

Like Aldenoneil, I thought that Tyrion should have looked more repulsive.

The amount of violence and nudity was slightly gratuitous (but only slightly).

I'm probably alone on this one, but I didn't like the opening credits. The map itself is cool, but I didn't like the way the different locations animated as clockwork gears. It just seemed incongruous to me. Is this medieval fantasy or steampunk after all?

Still it's a great kick off to the series and I can't wait to watch episode 2.

Matt wrote: "I don't have HBO and I REALLY do not want to wait for the DVD/Blu-ray, does anybody know if this is going to be available online before then via iTunes, Amazon, Hulu+, what have you?

I haven't had..."
If you are familiar with downloading torrents, the episode was posted within 20 minutes of the show ending. I prefer to play these files on my tv through the xbox. looked great

Matt wrote: "I am very familiar with torrents, I would just rather not do it. I guess I'll have to see how tempted I get."
Yeah it's fine just do it.

My thoughts: Loved the show, want more already. I appreciate the many small details I can pick up on thanks to reading the books. The show does not harp on all the details, they are just there for the readers to notice.

In the book Arya is portrayed as ugly. In the show she is not. It’s not a bad thing.

Tyrion is also portrayed as ugly in the book. In the show he is not. Again I don’t think this is a bad thing.

Cersei is portrayed in the book as being amazingly beautiful. In the show I did not find her to be overly beautiful. I expected to see more extravagance and grandeur in her wardrobe being that she is both a queen and a Lannister. No real complaint from me here, I was just surprised at her plainness.

Matt wrote: "Lou wrote: "Yeah it's fine just do it."

I never knew the devil on my shoulder's name was Lou..."

I would be weary of downloading torrents of HBO content. I got a notice from my ISP for downloading True Blood and have read numerous places that HBO is one of the more aggressive IP owners that go after torrent downloaders. I am a HBO subscriber and had watched the shows live or DVR'd but wanted a copy for repeat viewings, not that they care, and not that the notice from your ISP means anything right now, at least until they pass a three strikes law. Which they eventually will. But yeah, be weary.

Kate wrote: "I've gone to the trouble of digging out the book to check."

Thanks, Kate. It's all coming back to me now.

And yes, you're right in that the more overt rape may prove problematic with her later decisions. Were I a stay-at-home parent in the eighties I might say, "It's all very Luke and Laura."

And to Brian, re: Cersei - I think Lena Headey's a bit more rugged than I pictured, but certainly beautiful, though the least they could have done was lighten her eyebrows to match her hair. Do people exist in this world with darker eyebrows than their hair, or is that just in movies?

By the by, if anybody hasn't read the books or wants a refresher on characters and such, the Game of Thrones Companion iOS app is actually very well done. http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/game-o...

I think it was good. I didn't feel it was great. But I will invest the time and give it a chance. Lot's of boobs, which don't get me wrong I am a fan of, but i felt it wasn't necessary. Also the scene where Bran gets pushed out the window wasn't as interesting as it should have been. He was supposed to over hear the conspiracy not just see the brother and sister getting after it. And Daenerys was supposed to be seduced in a sense. He shows a sort of tender side. From what I remember he was gentle. In the movie it just seemed like "take the virgin" no matter what.

I wonder if they are going to fit all of book one in the first season of the Show, or will they take their time and spread the book across two or more seasons.

I actually ordered HBO on Friday just to watch it. HBO is really throwing their weight behind the show, which is good to see.

As for the show itself, I enjoyed the first episode immensely. It was so engrossing that when it ended, it felt like only a few minutes had passed. I have quibbles, sure, but it's television.

Brian wrote: "I wonder if they are going to fit all of book one in the first season of the Show, or will they take their time and spread the book across two or more seasons."

I'm pretty sure I heard that they're doing it a book a season.

So I watched this with my wife, who is not into fantasy other then Harry Potter. She did have trouble with the overt sexuality especially when I gave her some background on the ages. It was a little frustrating explaining some of the family connections between the Starks, Baratheon, Lannisters, et al. A baseline of the politics was lacking for those that have not read the books and that could spell trouble for the series if the only folks that end up watching are fans anyway. Watching with my wife was a good test just the same. At the end, she was not really into it, but is still willing to give it a go.

I liked it. Like a few people have mentioned - it wasn't AMAZING. But it was really good. More overt sexuality than I expected. Maybe more than was strictly necessary.

I think maybe too much time was spent on the prologue on the north side of the Wall. Time that could have been spent providing a little more exposition on the character relationships.

All in all, I was very happy.

More overt sexuality than I expected. Maybe more than was strictly necessary.

You mean the book or the show?

:P

Sodon wrote: " More overt sexuality than I expected. Maybe more than was strictly necessary.

You mean the book or the show?

:P"

Yes, I'm confused as to why some people are surprised at the amount of sex and nudity going on. If anything, the show is far tamer than the book.

Did anyone familiar with the material go in thinking this was going to be a PG affair (especially with The Tudors and The Borgias already out there)?

I expect there will be significantly less sex as the show progresses. It's probably turned up a bit in the first eps to suck in viewers.

Interesting... Does sex suck in viewers? Or does it turn them away?

I read/loved the books; therefore I will watch the show no matter what. Sex or no sex, I am all in. For the person who has not read the book, does sex attract them to the TV series, or does it turn them away?

I think sex is just HBO's "thing". It IS a draw and it's something they hold over traditional networks and until recently most basic cable. I really like Boardwalk Empire, but a good portion of the sex in that show feels gratuitous.

They even added a sex scene in the HBO version of A Game of Thrones, Tyrion in the brothel, I can only imagine so that they could show three, count 'em, three nekkid ladies.

After my like/hate relationship with the Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings, I'm expecting to be disappointed, but still hopeful that HBO stays true to the core concepts of A Song of Ice and Fire.

I loved it! I mean...can't wait til it gets aired here in Australia...erm..

aldenoneil wrote: "Yes, I'm confused as to why some people are surprised at the amount of sex and nudity going on. If anything, the show is far tamer than the book."

I'm not a vast consumer of pay cable - my only other experiences with HBO have been The Sopranos and Huff (I think Huff was HBO...)

Anyway - seeing a lot of sex and nudity on TV is just weird to me. I EXPECT televised versions of books with sex in them to tone down the sex for the TV audience.

Also the pacing of a book like GoT can afford a few sex scenes in the first 10th of the book. Packing them all into an hour of TV makes one question what this show is REALLY about. Put it this way - the novel's various elements aren't proportionally represented scene for scene. Feels like they upped the sex and swearing quotient and struck down the character development.

This isn't a complaint - I enjoyed the episode. I just wasn't mentally prepared for the amount of sex.

i09 had a good run off comparing the nudity in the 1st episode of True Blood to the first episode of Game of Thrones http://io9.com/#!5793737/which-hbo-pi...

True Blood is generally considered to be a very T&A heavy show but as i09 shows, GoT had more on display.

Kate wrote: "i09 had a good run off comparing the nudity in the 1st episode of True Blood to the first episode of Game of Thrones http://io9.com/#!5793737/which-hbo-pi......"

Thanks for the link, love the comparison between the two.

I don't think I can take another 'twisting' scene like in True Blood.

OK, I lied before about my exposure to HBO programming (maybe in another thread). I've seen all of True Blood.

I don't know what "twisting scene" everyone makes such a big deal about...

I don't remember anything being particularly shocking. Somebody help me out?

Twisted spoiler!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rouaDX...

Ah. Ok. I've seen that.

Once again, I blame Roald Dahl for my utter lack of sensitivity to normally shocking stimuli.

I've never watched that show, but that video made me laugh.

It really bothers me that Jamie Lannister looks like he was cast from the cover of a bodice-ripper.

^ but that is Jamie Lannister to a T.

A tight T-shirt?

extra small, on sale at hot topic, the SisterLover collection.

Matt wrote: "I don't have HBO and I REALLY do not want to wait for the DVD/Blu-ray, does anybody know if this is going to be available online before then via iTunes, Amazon, Hulu+, what have you?

I haven't had..."

Matt, if you have a Netflix streaming account there is already a bookmark where you can save it now and hopefully it will be available soon. (I noticed "The Pillars of the Earth" was available pretty quickly on Netflix.)