The Sword and Laser discussion

I recently got a Kindle after waiting for a long time. I started a job away from where I live, so I have three hour train rides (one way) at least once a week (sometimes more). I figured that this would be good for my reading time, but at the same time didn't really want to keep on buying books. We had also recently moved and packed box after box with books that we couldn't take with us to the new apartment. This sounds worse than it is. They're safely stored away in a self storage box, so we will probably get some of them back out once we really settled in.

However, I had already started giving away books to colleagues and second hand shops because our shelves couldn't handle it, so I figured all this together was an excellent reason to get a Kindle.

I was a bit afraid that I might not like it. I have generally heard only praise, but also read that a few people discarded it because they missed the actual "feel" of books.

So, after about two months or so I'm completely convinced that the Kindle and ebooks are perfect for me. I feel like I read more and faster. I think one reason is that you actually can read anywhere (haven't tried the bathtub yet, though), even holding on to a pole on the bus or train, because you only need one hand to hold it and turn the pages. It's also so light that you can carry it anywhere and the reading experience with the display is really, really pleasant. I also love that I can store a lot of books on there, can get a lot of stuff free and can actually look up something in a book that I read a few weeks before. Plus, getting a book from basically anywhere is cool, too.

What I didn't expect was that I actually use the search and highlight feature quite often. Search (apart from looking for something in a non-fiction book) helps me when I have a book with many characters (looking at you, GoT) when a character that I know has been introduced before turns up and I can't quite remember what his role was. Also used it quite a bit on Blindsight since all the names sometimes confused me.

Highlighting I don't use extensively, but I find myself marking at least two or three passages within a book, either because I like them or because I might want to quote them or for some other reason. I haven't written any notes so far, but then I mostly read for pleasure and not for work or study.

For those of you who use an e-reader, what has your experiance been like? Is there anyone that has tried it and found it unconvincing, going back to the dead tree version?

(BTW I almost exclusively read on the Kindle. I have an iPod and Android phone and have the Kindle app installed on all my devices and computers, but other than organizing my books from my laptop I don't really use them to read. I can't really get used to reading prose on a computer (or similar device).)

Anne wrote: "I recently got a Kindle after waiting for a long time. I started a job away from where I live, so I have three hour train rides (one way) at least once a week (sometimes more). I figured that this ..."

Like you, I brought my kindle with trepidation. I thought that I would not like it and that it would be a waste of money. But, I love it. It's so much lighter than a book. And, I can change the font. I haven't completely given up on dead tree books. But, that's only because not all books are available for kindle. It would be interesting to hear from someone who reads on a I-pad or Nook. What's your reading experience like? Does anyone use Kindle for PC?

So far I haven't yet bought a "real" book since I got the Kindle, but I've only had it two or three months, so that doesn't necessarily mean anything. The last book I bought was House of Leaves and that was partly because from what I knew it would make no sense as an ebook. I do prefer it when books are available as ebooks though, since that makes it easier for me.

I kind of miss being able to see what other people are reading, and to let them see what I'm reading. It can start interesting conversations. The other side to that is something Felicia Day mentioned, she can read pulp romance novels without being embarassed by the covers.

And also, there is something to the heft of a book. I don't think I would have had the same experience reading Anathem or the Baroque Cycle if my arms didn't get tired carrying the book around.

I agree with the first disadvantage. I, too, like to see what other people are reading, but that again mostly means that *others* shouldn't have e-readers, but it's totally fine if I have one.

Not sure about the second thing you mentioned. I actually feel that reading an ebook kind of lifts the heavy weight of some books. With the actual physical feeling taken away I find I can concentrate more on the story and am not too irritated by the sheer amount of pages still left. I read The Name of the Wind, The Passage and A Game of Thrones all on the Kindle and it *felt* like I got through them faster than if I had an actual book. Of course this is just a feeling and I don't have anything to compare it to.

Anne wrote: "I think one reason is that you actually can read anywhere, even holding on to a pole on the bus or train, because you only need one hand to hold it and turn the pages."

This absolutely is my favorite aspect. Laying it on a table without having to keep your place allows you to eat, brush teeth, knit, whatever, while you read.

Also, my 2-year-old can't swipe my bookmark.

Yeah, I'm probably just being sentimental about massive Stephenson tomes. I've never even seen a paper copy of Name of the Wind in person, but I feel like I got the full experience from the Kindle version.

You guys are starting to finally sell me on an e-reader. I just love buying physical books...

Sodon wrote: "You guys are starting to finally sell me on an e-reader. I just love buying physical books..."

Even if you had a Kindle, you could still buy the odd physical book. In fact, you might have to. They're are still several books that don't come in e-book form.

Sodon wrote: "You guys are starting to finally sell me on an e-reader. I just love buying physical books..."

I never want to see a paper book again.

I find that I am much more willing to try something different if I am buying ebook.

With paperbooks I was primarily sharing books with my family and they would all end up in the family library. I did not want to buy something that at least some of my family would also enjoy and then have to take up the ever dwindling library space with it.

Now with the kindle I don't have to worry about storage and with how easy it is to try a sample and return a book I am much more willing to try something a bit different.

Brandon wrote: "I find that I am much more willing to try something different if I am buying ebook.

With paperbooks I was primarily sharing books with my family and they would all end up in the family library. ..."

Same here. If I want to try something new, I either try it on Kindle or get it from the library

Same here. I almost never buy a regular book anymore. If there's a book I really want to read and there's no e-version available, I'll get it. Reference books or books that I intend to use for research, I will still get in paper form. Everything else goes on the Kindle or the iPad.

A very large portion of my books went up on Bookmooch, with more going up all the time.

I read both paper and electronic, though I admit to going more with kindle than paper. I like the paper better. I enjoy the feel and smell of the book, but the convincingness of the kindle gets me every time. I used to wait until a book came out in softcover before I bought it, but the e-book price is usually enough cheaper than the hardcover that I don't wait anymore.

What I'd really like to see publishers do, is give you the e-book along with the physical book. An SD card taped to the front cover or a download code or something. That would be ideal. After all, we're only buying the right to read it right?

@Eric,
I agree I would love it if publishers gave you a free code to download their ebook to Kindle/Nook etc... ideally through the Amazon/B&N stores.

Though I can imagine brick and mortar stores throwing a fit if there was a download link to a competitors ebook store included with the book.

Even if it was just a .mobi or .epub download it would be good but I really like being able to delete and redownload books wirelessly with my kindle instead of having to find the file on my pc and drag and drop it to the kindle.

Eric wrote: "What I'd really like to see publishers do, is give you the e-book along with the physical book. An SD card taped to the front cover or a download code or something. That would be ideal. After all, we're only buying the right to read it right?"

In general I agree with that idea, at least as an option. Since one of the reasons I got a Kindle was to avoid having more and more books in the apartment I doubt that I would use that option much, since it kind of contradicts that reason.

However it would be great for books I have for work. I work as a software developer and code examples (for example) are not really great to read on an e-reader, so in these cases I would sometimes prefer a real book to work with and the e-book to take with me when I'm on the road or just read it on the couch. Fortunately a lot of software book publishers already caught up to that need and you often either get a free e-book with your hardcover order or for a small upgrade fee. (I don't mind the upgrade fee if it's reasonable, because after all it kind of is like getting two books.)

One thing I would really love but doubt the industry would ever do is some sort of upgrade program. If you could prove you owned the original paper book from years ago etc.. you could buy the ebook version for say $1-3.

My family has a ton of paper books we would love to get on kindle but do not feel like paying full price for them a second time. In some cases the price of the ebook is more than the paper book as when we bought it new.

Code examples aren't that great to read on paper, either. I much prefer my coding books to come with a website key that gives you all the code in a downloadable package, indexed by chapter. Or at least a CD glued to the back cover.

That said, I have Doug Crockford's
JavaScript: The Good Parts on my Kindle and the code examples aren't that bad to read on there. Some unfortunate line breaks, but nothing too bad, or can't be solved by going landscape.

With the absence of a colorful book cover to give them away, I suspect that a lot more people are reading soft porn/bodice rippers on their e-readers than they would the physical books.

I love, love my iPad. I had a lot of eReader books from my Palm days so I was already an avid ebook reader -- now I have the Stanza app for my old eReader books,and I also have the iBooks, Nook and Kindle apps. I prefer the iBooks app if there's a choice. I rarely read paper anymore-- only if not available as an ebook (then I try to get it from the public library).

I only buy hardcover paper books anymore. Those are the books I want to put in my bookshelves and get signed if I can. Everything else I buy as ebooks because most of my non-work reading is done on the train or after everyone else is abed.

Book pricing will come down. Right now publishers aren't set up to e-publish an older book. The entire back catalog is in the wrong format, and it is hard to value. New books come in and are set electronically, so publishing them is easier and cheaper. I just want to be able to buy 1950 Space Opera pulps for $1.99 or less on my way to the beach.

My habits have definitely changed since getting a Kindle. Once I really started to get into it (and built up a selection of free ebooks from several sources) I've started taking it pretty much everywhere I go rather than a book, even at times when I wouldn't take a regular book as it would be too bulky.

I don't really mind the lack of heft too much, but I do miss having books on my shelves for people to thumb through while visiting. Unfortunately my shelves are so packed that I'm having to double-stack everything and keep the rest in storage, so I guess nothing much would change in that regard.

I do notice that I'm starting to favour my Kindle more than the physical books I've had for a while as I've gone through a number of different ebooks while not progressing much through my physical backlog. The rate I'm going through them it's going to be a couple of years before I run out of paperbacks that I own but haven't read.

As an experiment i am reading Pride and Prejudice on my kindle app on my phone. my first thought is that my phone is not a kindle or an ipad. the screen is small, and the thing keeps buzzing and people want to talk to me. I think one of the points of a book is that i ignore the phone for a while, so kindle on a phone just doesn't work for me. My second thought about reading P & P by JA is that this book would be better with zombies, although i am pretty sure that if someone put them in, it would feel contrived. my final thought is i am going to have to try it on a real ereader as a smartphone is just too small for me to use as a satisfactory ereader.

My wife and I both love the kindle. It has increased our book reading 5 fold. We both kept telling each other "I'm a reader, I'm a reader" the first few months after we got our kindles. I can't think of a piece of tech that has had a bigger (positive) effect on my life in the last 5 years.

If I could trade every paper book I own for a digital book I would do it. Imagine if you had been given an ereader in 1st grade and you still owned every book you had ever read.

People who are on the fence should consider all the free books you can download. For $114 you can own most of the classics and they all fit in your back pocket. You could probably read free books for the rest of your life.

I am also amazed at the amount of free books I have read. In the end I'm not sure whether the Kindle actually saves me money. On the one hand, ebooks are often cheaper - especially since I now can order books directly from the US and with the current exchange rate that's pretty nice for Europeans. Or free. On the other hand I do read more since I got the Kindle, so I'm not sure how that balances out.

I have downloaded a whole range of classics (Jane Austen, Charles Dickens, H.G. Wells etc.) on my Kindle and switch between reading more "modern" fiction (that I usually still have to pay for) and classics.

I think, Glenn brings up a good point when he says that it would be awesome to still have every book that you read since elementary school. I would *love* that. I read a lot of great children's and YA books and I bet I would love to re-read a lot of them if I still had them.

Since I've gotten my iPad, I've started reading much, much more. Before, I would probably read a couple books a month, but now I'm reading 1-2 books per week. The convenience of carrying around a multi-purpose device (I also take notes on Evernote, listen to podcasts, etc) that also lets me read books is a tremendous boon. It also doesn't add any more weight or bulk to my backpack to bring along the thousands and thousands of ebooks I have.

And, as far as iPad vs. smartphone, I'd tried previously to read books on my Android Incredible. The screen was simply too small. I read "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" on a mix of my phone and the computer. Reading on the computer was far, far better than the constant flipping of pages I did on the phone (or, at least it seemed like constant flipping). Having the larger screen of an iPad is light years better.

I like reading about others' experiences with ereaders and I have 2 in the house now, but I my personal reading habits haven't changed much overall. Sure, I like it when I can fill in some time by taking out my phone and reading a couple of pages, but those occurrences are few. Once I got over the novelty of the technology, it's really just text on a page or screen, and I never have a reason to carry around more than one or two novels at any given time anyway.

Joining the S&L community a couple years back *did* change my reading habits quite a bit, however, as it forces me to read more books I would normally pass up.

The sale prices and free ebook promotions are getting better, however, and often times beat the prices on the paper copies (like the price on 100,000 Kingdoms!), but those times are rare. The free Borders rewards program sends coupons every week for 33-40% any book in the store, so I often get my new books that way.

The free classics can be hit or miss. If the original language is English, then it's usually a "hit," but if it's something else it's a "miss" often times since the 100-year-old translations can be really awful compared to what you can get in paper copies today.

All this said, I'm totally infatuated with e-ink ereaders in many ways because I want them to be great. I've bought 4 readers over the last 2 years, the Kindle 2, Nook, Kobo, and Sony 6" touch screen version. I sent the Kindle and Sony back for different reasons and we have the other two in the house. I can buy a book once from Borders or Sony and put them on both devices with no issues. They still don't do exactly what I think an ereader should do, which is to display text given *any* file. I want it to display anything the file has in it, no matter what the file extension is. Heck it could be binary and it should still try to display something. Think Notepad or TextEdit or Emacs. Why has this feature been totally overlooked?

I love ereaders, but I still think they have a long way to go to be truly great. I don't really count the iPad and Nook color since those are LCD-based which can be bad for your eyes over long periods of time. We still need the e-ink tech to get cheaper and faster.

For me it has simply gotten me to read again. Post college I couldn't stand reading because of how much I had to do in school. Thousands of pages a week in political theory. Anyways, after I got my Kindle last August I have read more books in the last 8 months than I have in the last eight years. There is an incredibly connivence factor in not only the Kindle itself, but the whispersync where I can crank out a few pages on my phone while waiting to get my hair cut or something.

I can't forsee a day where I will ever go back to actual paper.

I am in the same electronic boat as Matthew in that after high school my reading level dropped way off but it was the sword and laser group that got me back into reading. I prefer electronic books as I can read them wherever I am. I have a Kobo reader at home but also read on my iPod touch or my work desktop at lunch. It used to be a month, month and a half for a book when I started the group but now down to two~three weeks if I don't have other things in my way.

I am looking forward to more back catalog works in electronic form though, Good Omens I had to buy in dead tree as it wasn't available on any eBook service.

I still prefer a dead-tree book to a digital copy. But I like being able to take a gazillion ebooks with me in one small package if I want, giving me the option to change books or start a new book easily. If I can get a book in dead-tree format, I'll take it that way instead of ebook.

However, ebooks have changed my reviewing habits. I used to almost never review books if I could only get an ebook copy. Now I do because I can get access to more books that way.

I have also purchased a kindle recently and my reading / re-reading (in some cases) of books has gone up a couple of notches. primarily because I do not have to wait for a book or try and get a book down from the attic to re-read. The fact that if I am bored I can easily re-read a book has meant a constant state of reading.

The only downside is not all books are available as ebooks yet, but I am sure that it is only a matter of time.

I've been using my Nook more lately and I was thinking about how it has changed my reading habits. One thing I have found on occasion is that there is usually one night every week or so where I can't read the book I wanted to because it's dead and I forgot to recharge it in the morning. I don't have an outlet near enough to my bed to make this more convenient. It's not really an issue because I'll have at least one or two other (paper) titles next to the bed that don't require power, but I think it's a tiny bit funny that I have it set up this way.

This will also happen with my smart phone when I'm taking a lunch break or waiting in line for something. Many times my battery is low so I save it in case I need to make a phone call instead. (I keep my phone charged every night, but many times that isn't enough.)

Batteries are getting better, but there is still the occasional "oops" moment where I need power to read something. I would say the simple fact of needing a charged battery has changed my reading habits.

Ebook samples are good for previewing books you might get on audio. You can see more of the 1st couple chapters that way.

Dan wrote: "One thing I have found on occasion is that there is usually one night every week or so where I can't read the book I wanted to because it's dead and I forgot to recharge it in the morning."

I have a Kindle 3 but I bet its similar to the Nook in that if you leave the wireless radio on when you aren't using it then the battery life is greatly shortened. I've found the battery life to be pretty good for Kindle even with the wireless on. Its also really quick to charge.

Tamahome wrote: "Ebook samples are good for previewing books you might get on audio. You can see more of the 1st couple chapters that way."

I carry around a bag of cables anyway. My iPod and my mobile phone have a far shorter battery life, so I'm used to remembering to charge my stuff regularly and have it connected to some power source when I have a chance.

The Kindle does have a pretty good battery life even with the WiFi on. At least it's long enough for me to have plenty of time to charge it when it's running low.

I'm not sure how the Nook handles the power for WiFi/3G. I know that it turns it on when needed, and then I think it turns it off after a set time, but I could be wrong and it may stay on until I put it to sleep again.

Yeah, it's really about having constant access to electricity to keep things ready. It's a problem I run into every time I take my telescope and laptop to a dark sky site. You start to cherish the things that don't need a power outlet.

My nook stays connected to my wifi at home all the time, (though I don't use it often). It stays charged for over week. Stays charged for a few days when I use it more often.
Much much less if I use it for surfing the internet or watching movies.