Rothfussians discussion

"Auri... How do you know about the Ciridae?"

Auri used to study at the University, too. She seems like the kind of person, even in times of sanity, to search a bit around myths and things others dismissed as nothing of importance.
I'm betting she's just as obsessed with the subject as Kvothe is.

Possible, especially since the University is likely built on the ruins of the older University. I wouldn't be surprised Auri went down there, not just because she cracked a bit, but because she wanted to (ugh)go 'deeper' into her field.

(BAAAAHAAAAHAAAA!)
Sorry. I love puns. No matter how lame. (Not that is was all that bad of a pun...)

Anyways, yes. Auri seems like one to go about all sorts of things having to do with what they call Faerie Stories. I wouldn't be surprised if she actually found the Faen Realm.
Could that have been what drove her insane? I think there are many ways that finding the Faen Realm could mess with people's sanity, besides Felurian. Maybe that's what happened to her....

Campbell wrote: "Auri used to study at the University, too. She seems like the kind of person, even in times of sanity, to search a bit around myths and things others dismissed as nothing of importance.
I'm betting..."
I don't know that her studying would expose her to the Ciridae. Hasn't Kvothe had a very hard time tracking down any information on the Amyr? I believe this lead to speculation that Lorren is among them, and clearing out the records.

Where did Kvothe learn the name Ciridae? When did you guys decide the University is built on top of an older one?

Or maybe Auri spent a night with Felurian. Hahahaha.

Allen wrote: "Where did Kvothe learn the name Ciridae? When did you guys decide the University is built on top of an older one?."

hmm, check out Elodin's stories right after Kvothe gets promoted by calling the name of the wind. He talks about the history of Elir and Relar. I think that's where I got it from. Confirmation, anyone?

Kvothe states himself that below the university are the ruins of older structures and machines that he can not guess their previous functions. This happens when Auri invites him down their and he's started to explore and he explains his discoveries.
Possibly Auri witnessed this pruning of the archives, whether it be Lorren or a random member.

I have to agree with Allen's msg #5. Kvothe cannot find anything on Amyr or Ciridae at the university.

At least nothing helpful. So I would guess she figured this stuff out another way or with more helpful assitance than what Lorren offered Kvothe.

It does say somewhere in these books though that the university and the whole city was built on top of an older one. I missed that too and someone pointed it out to me, just cant remember the page numbers. (Sorry!)

I've always been inclined to think that Auri went a bit daft just from living in the underthing and that maybe she saw something that drove her down there to begin with, or is hiding from someone.

you mean unlike Kvothe, maybe she has the good sense to fear bad things? enough to mostly stay hidden and in a place that only she seems able to lock and unlock

Exactly Matt.

Instead of going out to hunt it down, she hides herself away from it.

And since she clearly has a special way of seeing things, she eventually became lost in her own vision.

If that makes any sense. Kvothe is slowly bringing her back from that. Auri is pretty much the only person I've noticed Kvothe doesnt put on a show for, they just simply have an understanding of eachother.



Yah, what can I say, my prayer is that Auri turns out to be Kvothe's true love not that fake ass Denna.

The best guess would probably stem from the Cthaeh saying that the Univ profs know the whole Faen deal, and the curious link between Elodin and Auri....plus the history of the entire Naming Studies is shown to be entangled with the Faen, Amyr and Chandrian....if you ask me, there's a whole epic sad tale behind the facade of Elodin that involves Auri in some manner

Are we ever told how old Auri actually is? I'm wondering if Elodin and Auri went to the University together (Elodin is relatively young)and they both lost their sanity when they both experienced some event or something. They do know each other after all

Kvothe says she "looks" only a couple years older than he is.

I assumed she looked between 17-20

but specifics arent given, and Mola doesnt even recognize her - so could mean nothing.

I've been thinking that maybe Auri was never even a student, but she knew the university was safe place to hide from something....

What that something is, is still up for conjecture though.

Has anyone else considered that maybe Auri is even a Lackless or something a long those lines?

I only got this thought a few moments ago because I was reading this:

http://kingkiller.wikia.com/wiki/Auri

And it calls Auri a dreamer...reminded me of that part from the Lady Lackless poem.


"There's a secret she's been keeping, she's been dreaming and not sleeping"


You could probably even put a twist on

"seven things has Lady Lackless, keeps them underneath her black dress"

If you look at in more metaphorical terms than literal.

Eh? Eh? Any takers?

What would it be a metaphor for then, i dont follow ?
The underthing?

(The only way i can make it fit as a metaphors is if lady lackless was the moon.. Her black dress would then be the night sky.. )

Um, thats not how I was imagining it exactly, but I especially like your metaphor, thats a nice twist to the moon theory.

I was thinking more along the lines of the underthing and how dark it is under there, even during the day. (Under Where? lol, sorry...ignore that comment.)

I really want to know what happened to Auri and Elodin that made them...lose it? Maybe they changed their names? Ughhh I want DoS to come out already!!

I remeber reading that Auri wasn´t in the story at all from the beginning, but put in later during the process of (re)writing. When the most important parts of the storyline and the end already should be decided upon, right? Which make me think she can´t be THAT important?

she's important to the story because she is important to Kvothe that is all PR will say on her value.

Amber wrote: "Exactly Matt.

Instead of going out to hunt it down, she hides herself away from it.

And since she clearly has a special way of seeing things, she eventually became lost in her own vision.

If tha..."

Agree with you! I wanted Auri to be with Kvothe since the moment she showed up in the story! The Dena's character is just so irritating.

The fact that PR felt he had to specifically write her into the story makes me think she's very important. To me, just because a character isn't in the original draft, doesn't mean the character isn't important.

Tove wrote: "I remeber reading that Auri wasn´t in the story at all from the beginning, but put in later during the process of (re)writing. When the most important parts of the storyline and the end already sho..."

Why would he waste his time writing her in then?

Yes she and Devi were both add in's later, suggested by his editor from what I've read. From what I've read - Pat and his editor are both genious at creating story arch and suspense. I think it would be selling them short to suggest that because they added these characters in later they are of no importance.


For instance, three things all wise men fear, a sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.

Devi's alar is likened more than once to a sea in storm - I think thats pretty suggestive of even her importance to the story.

(I've personally thought if anyone was going to magically turn into a chandrian out of nowhere, it'd be Devi.)

Rachel wrote: "Although I imagine there would be some madness at first, if you suddenly were able to see everything and not turn it off. At least until you found an equilibrium and learned to manage all the info..."

That could be a good explanation for why Auri is hiding out, so to speak. Maybe she needs less to process.

i think auri became 'cracked' because she met chandarians....what say?

That could be. That actually might be an interesting twist to the story, another thing binding Kvothe and Auri together.

I kind of like it.

Rachel wrote: "I hadn't heard that Auri was not originally in the story, but I am glad she was added. She is my favorite character.

For the record, I don't think that Auri or Elodin are actually cracked. I t..."

I'm inclined to agree with this concept. It fits with my own thoughts. I have never seen elodin, as being mad. He just sees things apart from the accepted reality. And it is something he has been trying to get into Kvothe's head. Which Kvothe starts to pick up on in his travles.

Has there been any discussion on whether or not Auri is actually Princess Ariel?

I'm certain there are a multitude of discussions going on all over teh webz of togetherness (interwebz... internets... yeah, streeeeeeetch!), but I have yet to chase any of them down.

I absolutely love that PR's story is so dense.

There is a lot of speculation as to who Princess Ariel is. I think it must be Denna or Auri. Would love to hear theories about both though

I've read some speculation on that as well and agree with Scans that it is probably one of the two. Denna or Auri.

If not, I think someone we may not have met yet. I'm not fully on the Auri/Ariel band wagon. Even though the names are close.

If Devi really was added afterward, I wonder how Kvothe originally got money? We know she came in nice as a plot element because her holding onto some of his blood provides drama, and she also works in witty conversation and may be a good source of information and connection to less than scrupulous people later.

As for Elodin, I'm pretty sure even Kvothe says something about his eyes revealing his sanity.

I think Auri may be older than she appears, especially if she was ever a student because then Mola might have recognized her (though the student population could be larger than let on in the books) or Elodin (though he could have been in the hospital while she was taking classes, if she's young she might have only taken classes for a year or less before dropping off the grid). Also, I am interested into why she seems more at ease with Kvothe than Elodin even though it seems Elodin has known her longer. Is Auri a whole lot older than she seems?

I can't help but wonder if she is connected to Fae somehow because she seems to survive quite well with little resources and food or clothing. And her stance on used clothing is interesting. When Kvothe was living in similar conditions he often ended up close to death (though Auri doesn't have to compete with others and her shelter does provide more protection than Kvothes improvised lean-to).

When Auri tells Kvothe that he is her Ciridae, she then says something to him in another language. Anyone have any ideas as to what it could mean. I dont have the book in front of me so maybe someone could get the quote.

Scans wrote: "When Auri tells Kvothe that he is her Ciridae, she then says something to him in another language. Anyone have any ideas as to what it could mean. I dont have the book in front of me so maybe someo..."

She actually runs away and he follows her. I actually just went back and looked, but didn't see any other language. Sorry, maybe I missed it.

It's implied she's skilled at Sympathy. At least, I assume the light she has in her hand when she's in the Underthing with Kvothe is a motion-to-light binding. And Kvothe at least seems to think that's impressive. Probably doesn't mean anything except she was more skilled/educated than Kvothe at that point in the story.

From WMF:
Felurian kept walking, I could see her pale skin in the starlight and the shapes of trees around us, but nothing more. Thinking myself clever, I made a sympathetic binding for light and held my hand above my head as if it were a torch. I was more than slightly proud of this, as the motion-to-light binding is rather difficult without a piece of metal to use as a focus.

Eric wrote: "Scans wrote: "When Auri tells Kvothe that he is her Ciridae, she then says something to him in another language. Anyone have any ideas as to what it could mean. I dont have the book in front of me ..."

Here is the passage from the chapter "Clinks"

“You are my Ciridae, and thus above reproach.” She reached out to touch the center of my bloody chest with a finger. “Ivare enim euge.”

http://kkc.wikia.com/wiki/Amyr

means for the greater good, the Amyr creedo.


Aside from that, nice catch Eric, I've actually always wondered about that and I think you have an excellent idea on the light thingy.

I've seen a lot of people think its Kilvin's Lamp, but its not everburning, so duh...its not.

That scene is what gives me the strongest impression- taken with all her other character quarks- that she in probably the princess, Kvothe saves. I always assumed she was Dubbing him Sir, Kvothe.

Amber wrote: "http://kkc.wikia.com/wiki/Amyr

means for the greater good, the Amyr creedo.


Aside from that, nice catch Eric, I've actually always wondered about that and I think you have an excellent idea on t..."

Gah, I didn't bother reading on through Clinks. Thanks Amber :)

I also suspect she uses sympathy to negate the binding runes keeping the grate closed in the abandoned courtyard when she needs in/out.

Servius Heiner wrote: "That scene is what gives me the strongest impression- taken with all her other character quarks- that she in probably the princess, Kvothe saves. I always assumed she was Dubbing him Sir, Kvothe."

You've also got that she won't wear 2nd hand clothes, and kvothe mentions that there seems to be a grace to the way she eats and sits during meals, could be her upbringing in high society. Who or what is the barrow king though?

For ages I thought she could the one Ambrose made dissapear but mola not recognizing her made it unlikely.

hmmm- speaking of the Barrow King.

Maybe thats the King Kvothe kills? That could fit in nicely.

Outside of that, if Auri was royalty and for some reason she was in danger, I could see Kvothe doing literally anything to protect her. He's pretty defensive when it comes to Auri.

Agreed.

"I also suspect she uses sympathy to negate the binding runes keeping the grate closed in the abandoned courtyard when she needs in/out." I doubt this, you can't use Sympathy to counteract Sygaldry, pretty sure this is inferred.

I don't think she's the Princess. One part of me agrees, but how could a Princess have ended up at the University with noone noticing? She's someone who's gone cracked, I think she has had a similar experience with the Amyr as Kvothe did with the seven.

Can someone remind me who Princess Ariel is /was /is supposed to be?

Amber wrote: "hmmm- speaking of the Barrow King.

Maybe thats the King Kvothe kills? That could fit in nicely.
"
I want to disagree. He steals a princess from one that was sleeping. I feel like it is implied that he did it via stealth/trickery. Also, I still want to see him kill Ambrose. >:D

Allen wrote: "Can someone remind me who Princess Ariel is /was /is supposed to be?"

When trying to convince the young dude to not go to the army in WMF and try tell him he was kvothe, he offered to tell of how he truly saved princess ariel. I think that was the only mention of the name.

Yes, it is unclear who princess Ariel is. She is obviously someone Kvothe saved.

The Princess part may or may not be an exaggeration.

As far as stealing Princesses from those that are Sleeping, sleep is interchanged for death more than once in the novels.

When Haliax says to kill Kvothe he says to send him to his sleep or something like that (not a direct quote obviously)

There are others but I dont have my books, I think its mentioned in the Fae as well though.

Amber wrote: "As far as stealing Princesses from those that are Sleeping, sleep is interchanged for death more than once in the novels."

But then if the barrow king(s) is(are) already dead, Kvothe can't really kill it (them), can he? And if you mean it's undead, wouldn't a barrow king already be presumed to be undead/dead? The dead undead barrow king? Either way, doesn't sound like that's the King that would earn Kvothe the title Kingslayer. There's always room for surprises though, I guess.

Ancapaillmor wrote: "Allen wrote: "Can someone remind me who Princess Ariel is /was /is supposed to be?"

When trying to convince the young dude to not go to the army in WMF and try tell him he was kvothe, he offered t..."
Ah, thanks!

Yah I'll agree its doubtful. LOL.

I just like to keep all my options open.

Barrow doesnt mean dead either. A barrow is a burial mound. So it could be more like Dead and Buried then just dead and dead.

Barrow also could just mean Mountain or even a little cart for carrying things (see Wheel Barrow LOL).

Maybe this Sleeping Barrow King is really some Undead Farmer who keeps his daughter locked in a basement or something weird like that.

Hard to say. (Thought I really doubt thats the answer...that would be kinda dumb)

with the cart in mind, couldn't a barrow king be a tinker?

ALL HAIL KVOTHE, SLAYER OF THE WHEELBARROW KING! Wahaahha, yeeesssss!!

LOL.

If that ends up being even relatively true I'll just bust up laughing.

Satire...Indeed.

Touche Rothfuss...Touche.