Changes discussion

I love this series, but anyone else think it's getting progressively more and more depressing? This and the Sookie Stackhouse books have the same issue, IMO.

Dresden starts out relatively happy. Sure, life-threatening scrapes a go-go, but at the end of the book things always looked up. But the last few books he's really struggled to get back up, emotionally-speaking. And "Changes," it was more physically than emotionally!

Still well-written, still looking eagerly forward to "Ghost Story." Just kind of sad one of my favorite characters doesn't have *any* kind of peace these days.

That's one of the reasons I'm enjoying the short stories in "Side Jobs" so much. The books are about the times in Harry's life when everything is going down the tubes, and they manage to pull it out of the fire (maybe) at the last minute. The Side Jobs stories give me a little insight to the times when it's not End Of The World As We Know It Dire Consequences Holy Cow time. So far, my favorite one is "It's My Birthday, Too".

Right around DEAD BEAT and PROVEN GUILTY, Harry's world opened up. He became much more active with the White Council and the politics therein. The threats became bigger and thus the stakes. Also, in the grand scheme of storytelling, Butcher had to up the anti as far as danger for both Harry and his friends. If not, we'd be having the same kind of stories over and over. The faces and names might be different, but it would essentially be: Problem gets dropped in Harry's lap; Harry makes wisecracks while he follows leads; problem gets linked to other problems as Harry gets deeper into trouble and makes more wisecracks; finally, Harry ties it all together and saves the day.

Changes lived up to its name in ever sense of the word. Harry grew as a man and as a wizard. He changed much of his methodology both in his magic and how he deals with problems. He became a very proactive force rather than a reactive one, though that has been building up over the last several books. Finally, he pretty much single handedly changed the political climate of the supernatural world FOREVER. For the sake of great storytelling, all that had to come with some downsides. And considering that Dresden keeps growing in popularity, I'd say Butcher is pretty good at his job.

Wow. I managed to do all that without any spoilers.

Bravo M., well typed.

Why thank you!

M. wrote: "Right around DEAD BEAT and PROVEN GUILTY, Harry's world opened up. He became much more active with the White Council and the politics therein. The threats became bigger and thus the stakes. Also..."

Impressive non-spoilers! :)

I agree re: the world opening up, and the need for actual danger (I need to know that their *is* danger/characters could die - it's a little insulting to have non-superheroes be impervious) in the plots, but I don't think ante has to equal "complete loss of everything."

I'm far from tired of this series (in fact, 2 more months till booky-goodness!) and considering I am a fangirl when it comes to this series, I'm not crapping on Butcher, but this last book there wasn't even a little bit of happy for Harry. I'm okay with not being able to make sunshine hankies, but this one left me morose for hours. Although I guess I come off better than Harry did.

I loved the last one because there was such a large range of character development for Dresden, I can only wonder what in the world the next one will be about.

Nadia wrote: "I love this series, but anyone else think it's getting progressively more and more depressing? This and the Sookie Stackhouse books have the same issue, IMO.

Dresden starts out relatively hap..."

Quite honestly, Harry Dresden has every reason to be depressed but he's really not. I've watched this character develop from the very beginning and have to say that in the last two books: Turn Coat and Changes have made my beloved Dresden even better.

The twists and turns in both books either left me frustrated or angry at how could this happen to our hero. Harry was walked a fine line since becoming a Warden for the White Council cuz he doesn't always tow the line the Council would like him too. Half the Council wants his head on platter and the other half are waiting to see what he does next. He's had to deal with major blows in his life like Michael getting injured; taking on an apprentice in Molly; Murphy not always trusting him; Thomas which is self explanatory; The White Court; and lastly Mab. Who wouldn't be overwhelmed by their circumstances even just alittle bit. But Harry keeps moving forward to the next step which is why we really do love him or at least I do.

I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of Ghost Story. I've read the preview chapter and been chomping at the bit for it's arrival. I'm glad Jim Butcher didn't release Ghost Story in April like was planned. I saw his interview with the Science Fiction Book Club about it and applaud him for wanting to give Dresden Fans a great kick ass story instead of a half ass story that's a direct quote from Jim Butcher himself.

I'm pretty excited too. :)

i agree with the op; the climax with susan was gutwrenching. On the other hand, there were positive elements. The little girl was saved, and the monsters who enslaved the people of south and central america for centuries and commit crimes finally go down for their crimes in the most appropriate way. as such it's a little less depressing then turn coat. If the red court was an ally of the black council then they definately lost a powerful ally and have been weakened. for harry the tragedy is intense, but for the rest of the world I think things may be brighter with the red court finally defeated for good.

Whilst the ending of this chapter in Harry's life was certainly depressing for obvious reasons once you've read it.

I don't think that's a really trend through the last few books - yes the stakes have been rising, but generally there's been happiness for dresden in there as well - his family friends etc. A good example is the end of Turn Coat with Butters

Is it next week yet?!

I love this series, and Harry's life had to go through a change. He has been cut off from everything he knows and is having to start over. A lot of people in life go through changes it is how they come out in the end that matter learning and make their life much better (or death or what ever is going to happen in Ghost Story) or becoming bitter and old before their time sitting in self pity. I can't wait to see what happens with Harry.

Am reading Ghost Story and so far, it's very good...a totally different tack for Harry and those he cares for.

Yeah, Ghost Story really changed Dresden's viewpoint a lot. Things actually looked up at the end of it. Just as in life you go through good points and bad points.

I think people in general identify with Harry's "just an ordinary guy" way of looking at the world. Yeah, he knows he's a wizard and a fairly powerful one, but he's the first to admit to himself that there are many out there better at magic than he is and I think that's part of the charm of the character. Too bad the pilot TV series was handled so poorly. It could have done very well with better casting and writing.

Well, I must admit that I had given up on the Dresden series after reading Turn Coat. I had read all of them up to that point. But it seemed to me that the series had run out of steam..... same old same old.
But after many many months away from all those great characters that had stimulated my imagination for so many years, well, I had to come back and give it another try. I've skipped Side Jobs because I'm really not a fan of short stories and plunged into Changes.
Changes was spot on for me. It brought new excitement to the adventure and won me back again as a fan.
I've just purchased Ghost Story and can't wait to start reading it. I have no idea what will happen with everything that was "changed" in Changes and that's probably a big part of what will make it such a great read. Two thumbs up for Changes.

Andre: Hang in there for a roller coaster ride in Ghost Story! You will find it very satisfying when it finally concludes, or at least I did!

M. wrote: "Right around DEAD BEAT and PROVEN GUILTY, Harry's world opened up. He became much more active with the White Council and the politics therein. The threats became bigger and thus the stakes. Also..."

Well said, sir! And I agree full heartedly. I love where the Dresden series is going. I'm excited to read "Ghost Story" and see what happens next. Butcher is doing a fantastic job at keeping us guessing and putting us on the edge of our seats.

Harry will always and forever be my favorite main character of any type of fiction.

So... "Ghost Story" read. The awesomeness that began in "Changes" continues and the butterfly that flapped it's wings, and by that I mean Harry whomping ass and taking names right and left, continues to ripple out through the next volume of "The Dresden Files," and we haven't even seen half of what's changed as a result of Harry completely decimating one of his major enemies at the end of this book.

I'm off to the "Ghost Story" discussion boards now. I'll have my review of "Ghost Story" up in a tonight or tomorrow.

The changes in "Changes" is definitely dark and disturbing, but I agree that it opens up the series and allows it to grow.

As the title suggests Changes is about change for everyone that knows Harry. From Storm Front to Ghost Story, we see Harry grow and change in many directions some good, some bad, and some indifferent but it's also about life and moving forward thorough all these Changes. As I stated previously, Harry has every right to be depressed in many of the books but that doesn't stop him from doing what is right either. Just some food for thought.

ghost story sucked imo. it blew!

Thomas wrote: "ghost story sucked imo. it blew!"

Can you explain why you thought this please? Because I really like what occurred in Ghost Story.

Angie wrote: "Thomas wrote: "ghost story sucked imo. it blew!"

Can you explain why you thought this please? Because I really like what occurred in Ghost Story."


Well it was very slow paced not enough action and a bad guy who dresden already beat before and not even an interesting enough character to bring back again. Too much time spent in the book with pointless dialogue, it was very predictable almost the whole way through, definitely the worst book of the series I do how ever believe the next one will be better. Dresden is a bad ass wizard thats what we love about him, in this book he was sooooo not the bad ass more of just a watcher by. It was a big let down, it was really dull and boring in some parts made it really hard to read.

Just finished reading "Changes" and although the ending for Dresden was tragic; how could he have left Susan as she was. She had begged him to kill her before because she didn't want that life. I felt he released her soul. I have only read 3 of Butcher's Dresden series but think I will go back and read some of the others. I was shocked at the ending and though it was the end of the series. Glad to know it goes on with "Ghost Story". I will give it a try.

I agree that Turn Coat and Changes were on a bit of a downer, but I'm with the others here who have read Ghost Story, it easily the best Harry Dresden book in a while and I can't wait for the next one.

I like how Turn Coat and Changes were such "downers". Everything can't be all glitter and rainbows all the time. Harry has been battling darkness within himself for years and I really liked how Butcher let the metaphorical cat out of the bag. Harry changed, a lot, which in my opinion was EPIC because if you have a book called Changes, something needs to change. Ghost Story wasn't about all the smashing faces in, burning down buildings, wise-cracking badies, it was about Harry. It was purely character driven, no bells and whistles, just Harry. It was about him coming to terms with the darkness that had been growing inside of him over the years. What Harry went through in Ghost Story will set the precident for ALL the other books to come. Ghost Story changed Harry just as much as Changes did, only this time it'll make him stronger and more BA than ever. I honestly can't wait for whatever Butcher has planned next! I love the Dresden books and with this last one I have a feeling Harry's going to come back bigger and badder than ever (and perhaps just a wee bit more sarcastic and fantastic, lol)

Jenni wrote: "I like how Turn Coat and Changes were such "downers". Everything can't be all glitter and rainbows all the time. Harry has been battling darkness within himself for years and I really liked how But..."

Exactly! I loved Ghost Story!

Part of the heroes journey is when the hero is in the place where he can't fall any lower. Changes was that point. He's lost all, and while Arianna and the Red King were finally forced to face justice after centuries of atrocities, they succeeded in destroying him spiritually. The man killed the mother of his child. That isn't something you just recover from. His soul has been shattered and broken and the realization of how easily it could be avoided (Arianna only gunned for maggie because she wanted to kill ebeneezer, and the only reason that occurred was because ebeneezer had to save him from Ortega.

I really enjoy the fact that Jim Butcher is finally portraying Harry as a bit more of a flawed human. I think the first books were more "fun", but this one and Ghost Story FINALLY showed a multi-faceted Harry. In some of the earlier books, I found him to be a bit superficial. I like the progression in character development.

He's in the middle of his hero journey, think of Lord of the Rings. Butcher has said there is some 20 odd books to Harry's story
Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth

For instance, Phil Cousineau, in his book, The Hero's Journey, divides it up into the following eight steps:
The Call to Adventure
The Road of Trials
The Vision Quest
The Meeting with the Goddess
The Boon
The Magic Flight
The Return Threshold
The Master of Two Worlds[6]
Another eight-step formulation was given by David Adams Leeming in his book, Mythology: The Voyage of the Hero:
Miraculous conception and birth
Initiation of the hero-child
Withdrawal from family or community for meditation and preparation
Trial and Quest
Death
Descent into the underworld
Resurrection and rebirth
Ascension, apotheosis, and atonement[7]

Hmmm that "hero journey" thing does explain the increase in depressing-ness. They're still good stories, though.

He can't do pocket full of sunshine anymore because he's not genuinely happy

We are in the 'Empire Strikes Back' phase of the series.

I have to agree with what has been said about Harry's life becoming more and more depressing. The poor man just can't catch a break! Even in the story "Day Off" from Side Jobs. I am in the middle of reading Side Jobs at the moment, and agree with Zachary that its a great anthology which is a little more light-hearted, still action packed of course, but not as intense. My favorite was "Back Up",which was told by Thomas not Harry.

More depressing, maybe. Mostly I think it's more of everything. Harry's enemies are becoming more numbered and more dangerous, but then so are his friends.

Taking Molly as an apprentice, his ever-growing friendship with Karrin, and he makes new friends with every disaster and helps them become stronger.

And, having read Ghost Story, I have to say that Harry's predicament at the end of Changes is TOTALLY WORTH IT! It's less focused on Harry and more on the people in his life, so you see things from a slightly different perspective.

Josh wrote: "We are in the 'Empire Strikes Back' phase of the series."

Indeed.