SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

From George R.R. Martin's blog:

"HBO has just exercised its option, and purchased the television rights to A GAME OF THRONES.

For those of you who don't know Hollywood, an option gives a production company the right to buy a property (a book, a screenplay, whatever) at a certain agreed-upon price for a certain period of time (a year, six months, whatever). When that time runs out, they can let the option lapse, renew the option, or exercise the option and buy the property. The last is what HBO has just done.

What they have NOT done is greenlight the project. A GAME OF THRONES remains in development. They're still budgeting, still looking at locations (Spain and the Czech Republic at present, I hear). No decision has been reached, so any celebration would be premature. In Hollywood it is always best not to assume something is going to happen until it actually happens.

Even so... this is a very encouraging sign, and one that suggests a continued high level of enthusiasm and commitment for A GAME OF THRONES at HBO."

Congrats George!!

This has been going on for a few years now.... I would be thrilled if it actually happened! But I am not sure.... did you see when this was posted?

This was posted yesterday. It is new information. Prior to this HBO had gotten the option. Now they've officially exercised the option and bought the property. Doesn't mean the series will be created, but its a step in the right direction.

It will be interesting to see if anything comes of it. I'm not getting my hopes up - I've had a few of my favorite author's get optioned, but nothings come of it.

If it does get made, I hope that the TV adaptation will be as good as the books. I worry that TV/film in general wouldn't be able to do justice to the books.

I'm certainly glad HBO has gotten it. This way, it can be produced at it's fully adult level--i.e. with all sex and foul(read:realistic!) language intact.

My hope is that they make it into a series so they don't have to leave out interesting things in order to cram 1000 pages into 2 hours.

Finally some good news!!!

http://www.thrfeed.com/2008/11/hbo-or...

I am just finishing up AGOT--even though the club discussed this book several months back, I have very little time for pleasure reading these days, so it takes me forever to finish any book, especially a relatively long one, like AGOF. I am quite firmly hooked now, and will continue with the series. This is great news, indeed, and if it gets picked up, HBO is the perfect venue! We fantasy fans can at last see a fantasy-genre drama on the screen presented as a fully adult-oriented production.







Leslie Ann Moore

I just began Game of Thrones and can't wait for this to be a show on HBO. I think that if anyone can do it, it will be HBO. Is there any more information out there on when this will begin airing? Or if it has even begun shooting? I couldn't find anything when I searched.

I haven't heard anything yet about air dates. Just that there will be a pilot episode.

equally cool, Ridley Scott (Bladerunner) has optioned Joe Haldeman's The Forever War, and has stated it will be his next 'big budget' SF movie.

also, does anyone remember whether someone made a cinematic version of Sandkings by Martin? It's an excellent short story by Martin. I seem to recall it being scripted to television...

From what I have heard, Hollywood works at an even slower pace then the publishing industry. It is not uncommon for authors to have a meeting a year for 5 - 7 years before something finally starts to move.

Nick, Sandkings was made into a two-part episode of The Outer Limits in 1995. I haven't seen anything about a cinematic version...

GRRM just announced today that they are actually officially going to begin filming A Game of Thrones (up to this point it's still been a project in development). Some information is in a press release here: http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/new...

Here's the Time Magazine piece:

http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/07...

Great links, thanks! Now if we could just get the next book, it's a year overdue.

I didn't know that it was being filmed in my neck of the woods. Go Belfast!

I can not wait for this to completed but with the inevitable caveat, as long as it does properly.

Did you hear that they cast Sean Bean as Eddard Stark?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0944947/f...

And Peter Dinklage is cast as Tyrion (He was great in Elf!)

I want the new Martin Book!!

I am torn between dying to see this and being terrified that it's going to suck!

Chris wrote: "Nick, Sandkings was made into a two-part episode of The Outer Limits in 1995. I haven't seen anything about a cinematic version..."

Awesome short story/novella, but it was a bad adaptation, screwed up by the need to have more than one primary actor. Turned me off to the New Outer Limits for the remainder of the series run.

I'm starting this book next, in anticipation of the HBO series in April.

I've started it as well. Friends on a BBS made me do it.

Stormhawk,
BBS?
How far are you into it?

Jackie wrote: "Stormhawk,
BBS?
How far are you into it?"

BBS is old-school geek for Bulletin Board System. I've been participating with cellar.org since the early 1990s, first as a dial-up actual bulletin board, then through a couple of web incarnations, until we got to the current vBulletin forum. It's originally a Philadelphia-area board, now we have worldwide members.

I finished A Game of Thrones and am now dipping into A Clash of Kings. I'm not entirely satisfied by the first book, because I tend to like my ends a little less loose ... but I am still enjoying the books.

Thanks for the info (BBS)

I'm about halfway through Thrones.

stormhawk wrote: "I finished A Game of Thrones and am now dipping into A Clash of Kings. I'm not entirely satisfied by the first book, because I tend to like my ends a little less loose ..."

Erm.

It doesn't really tighten up that much at all, in later books.

Just a warning.

Thanks, Ala. I've heard that from a lot of people. I have to admit to being discouraged. Consider me warned.

Don't get me wrong, it's one of my favorite series. I enjoy the hell out of those books and tend to re-read them once a year.

But if you're looking for a tidy ending to each book, or at least as close as you can get in any series, you'll be disappointed.

In most series they have to leave some lose threads to pick up on in the next book, so that doesn't bother me, as long as it does get wrapped up at some point before the end of the series. I hate to be left hanging permanently.

I'm definitely going to read the next book, most likely the whole series.
I can't wait to meet everyone too. I saw the 11 minute preview and it looks amazing. The cast was well chosen.

The only way I could stop now is if I died.

Oh, you'll stop. I guarantee it.











Of course, that's because Martin won't put out the next damned book already...

I did say 'now' LOL

Does it really that bad? I've heard a lot of complaint about the later books. Is it the books themselves that suck or because Martin is taking forever to finish it?


If it starts to suck I might drop it, but I have issues with not finishing a series, even if it sucks.

Oh no, the series is great. The later books only suck in that they don't follow the characters I prefer, but they're still really, really good.

I'm just annoyed that he still hasn't released the next book in the series. I feel like I've been waiting forever, and I only learned/read the series at the end of last year.

Isn't that a piss off? I feel that if an author is going to write a long story they least they can do is stick with it and publish in a timely fashion.
And he's not the only one that does this. Rothfuss has taken 4 years for the second book of the Kingkiller series. If it's written well, I don't mind a wait, but 4 years! And he's still got more to go.
It's authors like Jennifer Roberson who really piss me off, she writes 2 fantastic books in the Karavans series and then decides to work with stained glass. Are you F-ing kidding me? She leaves me smack in the middle of a story, with 2 more books to come and she want to play with stained glass? I hate her. I wish she was on her just so I could bitch at her.

Now tell me how you really feel... :P

LOL, I can't help it, I must be really bitchy today...
I've had a string of these 'forever' books lately and it's taking it's toll on me, LOL

Personally I'm just waiting for Martin to finish the frickn series - he was supposed to have the 2nd of the last book (sounds a bit like the Harry Potter movie, yes) out years ago.... still waiting waiting waiting

Martin is a great disappointment. The series by itself is brilliant, in my opinion. I would certainly recommend it to anyone, even though it's rather unlikely we'll ever get to see the end of it.
Checking his blog from time to time leaves one even more frustrated. It doesn't seem like he's even remotely busy writing the next books.

Martin originally planned to write 6 books, with a gap of 5 years (Westeros time) between the first three and the second three. As he was writing he realized that wasn't going to work for various different reasons, but just continuing without the gap apparently screwed something up with Dany's plot line in Meereen (hence his allusions to a "meereenese knot"), that he's been chopping away at for years now. Cue fans being very annoyed, sometimes vocally, which in turn lead to Neil Gaiman famously blogging "George RR Martin is not your bitch". ;)

I think he might've gotten a wee bit burnt out on the whole thing (nevermind that there'll be at least 7 books by now), but I'm optimistically hoping the TV series will work as a kick in the rear.

With all apologies to Neil Gaiman, yes he is. I have him locked in my basement right now with a laptop, chair, and a bucket. He doesn't get fed until he finishes the next chapter.

I think you're my kind of woman. ;) The most frustrating thing is that I remember Martin saying (paraphrasing here) that there was no point in writing books if you couldn't churn one out every 18 months or so (this was obviously sort of early on in the ASOFAI series). I'd say that one came back to bite him in the ass unless he was being ironic.

Evilynn wrote: "Cue fans being very annoyed, sometimes vocally, which in turn lead to Neil Gaiman famously blogging "George RR Martin is not your bitch". ;)"

Thank you. I clicked through from my morning notifications email to post a link to that, but you beat me to it. :)

I certainly empathize with the frustration seem people feel at not yet having additional books in the series, the eagerness to discover what happens to our beloved characters. I read the first three books in grade seven, then I had to wait until I was in grade 10 to read the newest one. I'm almost finished my university degree now, and still no fifth book.

Gaiman expressed it much better than I ever could. To call Martin "a great disappoint" merely because he hasn't continued to deliver massive books on time is a little harsh. Would you rather he deliver something half-baked, something poorly written? Not only would that cause those laments about Martin's dawdling to change abruptly to cries of, "He's done! Show's over! Series has gone downhill!" (as I'm sure, no doubt, some have already started to do), but it would further complicate and snare an already twisted and tangled series, probably delaying the next book, and the book after that.

I, too, would love to have A Dance with Dragons show up in bookstores tomorrow. But if Martin dies before he finishes it, or worse, decides to … I don't know, go off and work with stained glass … well, tough. I might not be happy about that decision, but an author is not my slave, and Martin has no obligation to finish what he started. Writers are people, and as such, unreliability is part of the package. If you want punctual novels, comission a computer-written one.

Besides, it's not like we're going to run out of books to read in the mean time.

Lara Amber wrote: "With all apologies to Neil Gaiman, yes he is. I have him locked in my basement right now with a laptop, chair, and a bucket. He doesn't get fed until he finishes the next chapter."

LOL.

Evilynn wrote: "The most frustrating thing is that I remember Martin saying (paraphrasing here) that there was no point in writing books if you couldn't churn one out every 18 months or so (this was obviously sort of early on in the ASOFAI series)."

Recall, however, that Martin is not writing ASOFAI exclusively. In addition to writing those books, he is editing anthologies, writing short stories, and probably consulting on the HBO series. Plus, ASOFAI is definitely atypical and thus anomalous. I think you're right that it "came back to bite him," but only in the sense that his unmitigated success and artistic ambition have forced him to violate his arbitrary quantifications. :D

I might be foggy about the details, but I think he's actually been working on the scripts for the HBO series too, so he's definitely being productive. Just maybe not on what most fans would like. ;) (I realize that his problems with ASOFAI is probably more a case of "can't solve this plot point" rather than "can't write enough words")

Evilynn wrote: "Cue fans being very annoyed, sometimes vocally, which in turn lead to Neil Gaiman famously blogging "George RR Martin is not your bitch". "

Ahahaha, that was a great read. :)

Look, I'm all for quality over quantity. If it takes a while to get a book that maintains the quality of the previous ones, then by all means take the time necessary. I'd rather read a really great book that took years then a really mediocre one that took one.

So to Martin, Rothfuss, et all...It's your story, your creation, do with it what you will, when you will. You don't owe me anything.

But I'm still going to bitch about the wait. I'm still going to bitch about the stories if they veer from what I want to happen. I'm still going to rant whenever the urge arises. And I'll talk as much crap as I want, when I want, because I don't really owe you anything either.










but please finish writing already :P

Even though I'll complain, (and that's from a selfish I want what I want attitude), I really don't mind waiting for quality. But the key here is, I want the author to actually be working on it. When they get caught up in side projects, I get annoyed. I feel the author does owe me something: the promised books. When authors write series, it's an implied promise that they will supply more. And if they don't want to keep on with the series, fine, then stop stretching it out and wrap it up with a proper ending.

Although slightly off topic this is an interesting discussion on the writer/reader relationship.
Gaiman's input is relevant and points out that writers aren't perfects and that readers shouldn't expect them to be. He also correctly points out that there is no contract between the writer and the reader.
However what he fails to point out is that even if there is no contract, there is a relationship, especially if the writer is an avid blogger and responds to emails (and other communications).
The main relationship between the reader and the writer is that it's the readers that will pay the writers bills, once the book has been released. As a writer to not see this and continue to expect the pay checks to continue to come from the publishers is the same mistake that recording artists encountered with the introduction of the mp3 format and the internet. As books are currently going digital the authors should really pay attention to the importance of maintaining a good relationship with the buyers.
I don't think that piracy will become a big issue for the book industry (although it's likely that it will have an impact on sales).
With the digital revolution coming to books, the competition will increase as the importance of having a major publisher and a distribution channel will be decreased as indie publishers will have lower costs and writers can even self-publish on major platforms such as the kindle.
Saying that the next time you hear from me the book will ready and then have nothing to offer three (almost four) years later is not good for the relationship - and may very well lead to the end of the relationship. Without readers the author will eventually have to find another career, no matter what (s)he has produced previously.

Very nicely said, Martin. I think those are some important points that we should all keep in mind.