Terminalcoffee discussion

Today I thought of Clark because my newspaper informed me that Bun E Carlos, Cheap Trick's drummer (although I don't think he always tours with them anymore) is SIXTY years old today.

Goddamn.

Can rock and roll musicians age gracefully? Besides Keith Richards, I mean.

Have you seen Keith lately? do you really think he's aged gracefully? I think he's aged to remain cool but age with grace.....noooo...

I can accept "remain cool" as a Keith descriptor.:)

Ray Davies (67) of the Kinks has been active organizing summer rock festivals in the UK and encouraging new talent. He also continues to play and record. Here's a clip of him:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/video...

Tom Jones (71), who was never a rocker exactly, has actually gotten better with age, I think--less lounge-lizardy and more like a cool old Welsh guy with great chops.

I fuckin' love Tom Jones. I'm not kidding. Tom Jones is fuckin' awesome. I want to hug Jonathan for mentioning Tom Jones because I haven't thought of him lately and now I feel good having thought of Tom Jones.

Do you prefer "Sex Bomb" era Tom Jones, or "Bye, Bye Delilah" era Tom Jones?

Oh, the latter, by far. If I had my way "With These Hands" would be a slow dance at every wedding. I don't like some of the almost-novelty hits, e.g. "What's New Pussycat" but that man can flat out sing.

He can. I kind of prefer him in his newer incarnation, last 10-15 years or so, but he always had a great voice.

And "What's New Pussycat?" although a silly tune, is the the theme song to a very fun movie with Peter O'Toole, Peter Sellers, and a very young Woody Allen.

The surviving BeeGee's have aged well. Barry hardly looks like he's changed at all.

The surviving BeeGee's what?

Their bodies, evidently.

Yeah, I believe musicians CAN age gracefully.

1: Come to grips with the fact that you're not 25 anymore.

2: Start dressing like it.

3: Don't resort to rapping or using samples. If you're that desperate, you're well past your sell-by date.

4: If you need a teleprompter and/or backstage oxygen, you're done like dinner.

5: Celebrity duets or all-covers albums? - see #3 or #4.

6: If you can now slot "Sir" in front of your name, pack it in.

7: Playing half-time at the Super Bowl does not a legend make.

8: Retirement is more noble than reinvention. Can you hear me, Rod Stewart and David "Buster Poindexter" Johansen?

9. I have no problem with reunions, even for purposes of topping off band members' pension funds but it should only be done with all original members unless one or more are dirt napping. Then and only then is it permissible to bring in ringers. Case in point: that Eno-less Roxy Music reunion back in '03 was one of the best shows I've ever been to despite Bryan Ferry moving around like he was either handling a poisonous spider or having his back scratched by a supermodel. Nothing but class.

Argh!

This is a great place to correct your punctuation, grammar, critical thinking skills, etc.

Will I ever get a gold star? How about if I correct my own mistake? It's Bee Gees, not BeeGees.

**sending myself off to the Ficus - not Fiscus as I was corrected earlier**

RandomAnthony wrote: "Today I thought of Clark because my newspaper informed me that Bun E Carlos, Cheap Trick's drummer (although I don't think he always tours with them anymore) is SIXTY years old today."

This makes me feel old but if anyone deserves hardy birthday wishes it's Bun E. It couldn't have been easy all of those years staring at the skinny asses of Robin Zander and Tom Petersson or sitting around waiting while Rick Nielsen changed guitars every goddamned song.

He's a hell of a drummer.

This is probably a good thread to mention that the news this morning says Clarence Clemons had a stroke. I read his autobiography last week, and the overwhelming message was "You should be amazed that this guy is still on the road."

Clark wrote, Celebrity duets or all-covers albums? - see #3 or #4.

That all depends on the artist. The new Booker T. Jones album, produced by the Roots' Questlove, is quite terrific, and chock full of guest appearances, but ultimately it's about Booker T. Jones's music, not him trying desperately to sound relevant in the 21st Century.

In other words, as long as you're not Engelbert Humperdinck trying to sing some Justin Bieber track, then stay true to yourself if you're doing a covers album. Otherwise, go belt out "After the Loving" at Harrah's Casino in Cherokee, NC.

As long as you can still bring it onstage and not look like some desperate jackass trying to reclaim some semblance of youth, then I say rock on until you've dropped dead.

Springsteen is, what, 62? And he's onstage for approximately 3 1/2?

Youth is wasted on the young, anyhow.

Springsteen and co. are a great example of aging gracefully.

Anybody hear Tom Jones's Reload album a few years ago? That was fantastic. Inspired covers done with other bands.

The Big Man's been quite ill for some time. I hate hearing this. I sure hope he makes a speedy recovery.

Tom Jones did a very nice gospel/blues covers album - I forget the name. His voice lends itself quite nicely to the hardscrabble nature of some of the songs.

Gus wrote: "Clark wrote, Celebrity duets or all-covers albums? - see #3 or #4.

That all depends on the artist. The new Booker T. Jones album, produced by the Roots' Questlove, is quite terrific, and chock fu..."

If it's not immediately obvious, you're much more tolerant than me. I prefer my heroes within the friendly confines of a rut. I don't want to hear the New York Dolls wax philosophic about current affairs and I sure as hell don't want to listen to the sound of Bruce Springsteen's overworked psyche grinding gears about life in a post-911 world.

Gus wrote: "The Big Man's been quite ill for some time. I hate hearing this. I sure hope he makes a speedy recovery.
"

He had both knees replaced and a spinal fusion. I think both hips as well. There was a mild heart attack somewhere in there. He has doctors and personal massage therapists backstage piecing him together before and after every show. And I root for him to keep dragging himself on stage. I think losing Danny was a big blow, but I can't imagine the band continuing on without him. Maybe, maybe, maybe with his nephew.

Losing Danny Federici was one thing, but for the E Street Band to lose the Big Man would be too much of a massive blow to endure. Plus, I couldn't imagine Springsteen going onstage without him.

Kaput wrote: "I didn't think they were meant to age gracefully.

Although I'm not sure it's strictly rock and roll when most of the oldies are now drinking peppermint tea and doing yoga before going on stage :/"

Well, it was their choice to stick around or do a thousand reunion tours rather than flame out and disappear.
In my opinion, the bands that age gracefully are the ones that manage to continue putting out relevant music, not multiple best-of packages and new songs with their classic riffs played backwards.
Bruce puts out new albums with new songs. They try new things in concert. The Who, on the other hand has more Best Of albums than real albums at this point.

Yes, that too!
I mean, going back to Clarence: the man doesn't need the money. What motivates you to drag yourself onto the stage for three and a half hours every night in pain? Not the money. Music.
I was there for the last night of the last tour. The way they put their arms around each other at the end was as real an explanation as anything I've ever seen.

Sarah Pi wrote: "The Who, on the other hand has more Best Of albums than real albums at this point."

Depending on my mood, there are days when I think they just may be the greatest band to ever draw air (and I'll fight anyone who says different), but they haven't put out a real album since Keith Moon went tits up.

Have you heard Roger Daltrey attempt that scream near the end of "Won't Get Fooled Again" lately? I cried big tears.

They wrote some of the best rock songs of all time. They completely upstaged the Stones in Rock & Roll Circus.
But -- none of their umpteen reunion tours of the last twenty years did anything to further their legend.
Whereas Bruce and E Street on the last tour taking requests -their own songs and even covers they'd never played before - was living breathing rock and roll.

Agreed, Clark. I'll taint-kick any fool who talks shit about the Who, but they should have hung it up several decades ago.

Still, I won't give 'em shit for carrying on. Who are we to tell our heroes to hang it up. A lot of them still have bills to pay, just like us little people do. Of course, it's bills to pay for docking their yachts on the slip, but, still, it's bills to pay, right?

Sarah Pi wrote: "But -- none of their umpteen reunion tours of the last twenty years did anything to further their legend."


Amen...

Gus wrote: "Still, I won't give 'em shit for carrying on. Who are we to tell our her..."

That's a good point. I mean, presumably they all started playing in bands because they were like Keith, sleeping with a guitar at night to get to know it a little better. They loved making music. It's a rush. I don't care how many times you've been on stage. It's still a rush. If they kept going because they wanted to play music on a stage every night, I say more power to 'em.
But old songs do get a little stale. I'd be more inclined to believe they were doing it for the love if they changed the songs up a little or threw in some new stuff.

I saw Bob Dylan a couple of months ago. Great show, even though it was tough to understand him. He didn't even acknowledge the crowd, he just got on stage played for a little over an hour and left. Love that man.

I'll put it to you this way: I can forgive the Stones for anything they've done post-Tattoo You (and I generally like their supposed comeback album Steel Wheels), because you'd be hard-pressed to find bands that wrote Sticky Fingers or Let it Bleed or Between the Buttons or Exile on Main Street or Beggars' Banquet, I could go on. The fact is, for all the crap records they've done, all the bad will from those crap records will never undermine all those great records I listen to repeatedly.

But to your point about new stuff, I think it's a fine line between mixing it up and having to play it over and over again to please the fans. Springsteen, for example, can mix it up a lot because he never plays the same set list twice. The Stones, on the other hand...if they threw a curveball on, say, Brown Sugar, the fans would give them grief, I think.

Fair enough.

I also do think that there are dozens of bands playing every night that have the potential to make masterpieces - or have already made one - which will never be heard because the labels are willing to take a chance on another Stones album or another Who repackaging but not on a new band.
You can make the album without a label these days, but getting distribution and getting attention in this scattered environment is pretty hard, especially as costs escalate for everyone. When I read the listings for clubs these days, they say "must have a draw of 50 to be considered" - which is well and good if you're local, but not so good if you're trying to get attention in a new town. The clubs can't afford to take a chance on you either.

So the bands packing stadiums are the ones we've seen in stadiums for years.

Terrific comment, Sarah.

Clark wrote: "Sarah Pi wrote: "The Who, on the other hand has more Best Of albums than real albums at this point."

Depending on my mood, there are days when I think they just may be the greatest band to ever..."

I agree with both you and Sarah. I don't think there's another band that can top The Who and I don't think they've done anything in all their different reunion tours that's been noteworthy. And now Daltrey's going on tour doing Tommy.

The Rolling Stones are alright, but as far as R&R is concerned, I wouldn't put them above The Who, Bruce, Neil Youg, the Grateful Dead or the J. Geils Band.

Michael wrote: "Clark wrote: "Sarah Pi wrote: "The Who, on the other hand has more Best Of albums than real albums at this point."

Depending on my mood, there are days when I think they just may be the greates..."

J. Geils Band? You from Detroit?

Gus wrote: "The fact is, for all the crap records they've done, all the bad will from those crap records will never undermine all those great records I listen to repeatedly. "

Same here. I can forgive Jagger for ""Umm, yes, you could be mine. Tonight and every night. I will be your knight in shining armor coming to your emotional rescue." I can even forgive them for this, but just barely:

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Aside from Charlie Watts, Ronnie Wood is the only one of these pensioners who doesn’t look completely ridiculous trying in vain to keep the ferryman at arm’s length with six strings and a prayer, and he only looks SLIGHTLY ridiculous, apparently still dipping from what has to be the biggest bottle of Clairol blue black ever made.

Feh...

Clark wrote: "J. Geils Band? You from Detroit?"

No, I'm just a fan. For pure Rock and Roll, I don't think there's anyone out there who can touch them.

Michael wrote: "Clark wrote: "J. Geils Band? You from Detroit?"

No, I'm just a fan. For pure Rock and Roll, I don't think there's anyone out there who can touch them."


They were huge here in Detroit. They actually sold out the Pontiac Silverdome back in 1977.

Gus wrote: "Losing Danny Federici was one thing, but for the E Street Band to lose the Big Man would be too much of a massive blow to endure. Plus, I couldn't imagine Springsteen going onstage without him."

The Big Man died Saturday. He was 69.

Clarence Clemons: RIP

:(

“I felt like I was supposed to be there. It was a magical moment. He looked at me, and I looked at him, and we fell in love. And that’s still there.”

I think that might also be true for every fan the first time they listened to a Sprinsteen song or saw the band live for the first time.

I don't mean to sound callus when I say that celebrity deaths generally don't bother me, but this one and Jerry Garcia's death, did.

This one bothers me a great deal too. I was at the last show on the last tour, and their embrace at the end of the night felt very much like a farewell. I'd seen them hug at the end of a show but this one was a this-is-it. Very intimate.
When I read his biography I was very much struck by how physically fragile he had become. Still, you hope that anyone with a legend that big finds a way to make another comeback.