SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Ruby wrote: "Also Terry Brooks and Terry Goodkind and Stephen Donaldson and David Gemmell are on my mental list of authors too dull to read."

Hmm, I'm just about to try David Gemmell's Troy trilogy. I can consider myself warned, anyway.

The Naked Empire by Goodkind is bad really bad, if there is one book that should have been burnt before publishing, it is this one.

Pick any Piers Anthony Series.

Read the first book and marvel at it's cleverness, innovation, and tight plotting.

Read the second and savor how well it meshes with the first.

Read the third and think it's an okay book.

Read the fourth and recognize the slide into boredom with the concept ...

Read the fifth (and later) and know that you are wishing as much as Piers is that it would just be over, but the contract was for X number of books, each over Y number of words, and by Hades, that's exactly how many you're going to get, even if there has to be a pointless and unfunny essay on process in the back of the book.

Shomeret wrote: "I adored Doc Smith when I was ten years old which is when I read the Lensman series. Now I couldn't stomach it."

I have that series in my permanent collection. I know what you mean. The writing is definitely NOT up to modern standards, so when I revisit the series, it takes me about 1/4 the first book to get back into the mental state necessary to enjoy it again.

But once there, I get lost again in the universe he created.

There's an old saying that a good story can survive bad writing. This is (depending upon your own tastes) one of those things.

Rusty wrote: "Interesting discussion. I haven't read many of the mentioned books and I don't think I will. However, I do like Ursula LeGuin. Try not to let an author's politics and/or beliefs color my reactio..."

I read ONE of LeGuin's books and never picked up another. (Lesson for authors: don't ever let a bad book get published with your name on it.)

Ravenheart by Gemmell was the sort of terrible star-crossed-lovers-rapists-Highland-Scottish-clan-blood-feud spew that could only get by in the romance section.

Anything by Piers Anthony qualifies as my worst Sci-Fi/Fantasy ever. I have never been able to finish a book of his that I started reading and it's happened more than once. His author voice always sounds like "Comic Book Guy" from the Simpsons.

Machavelli wrote: "The Naked Empire by Goodkind is bad really bad, if there is one book that should have been burnt before publishing, it is this one."

I guess most people don't like or care for the political undertone of the book.

Shomeret wrote: "I adored Doc Smith when I was ten years old which is when I read the Lensman series. Now I couldn't stomach it."

Oh I could. I love the series which I've read multiple times at various ages. It gives me starlust.

Does thought provoking reading and entertaining reading have to be the same thing? Doc Smith comes to mind. for poor writing, even for the era , how about Doc Savage. stormhawk's Piers Anthony comments are spot on!

stormhawk, re. Piers Anthony - very well said! completely agree. fertile imagination, terrible follow-through on series.

some of his standalones are interesting. Macroscope for example.

Tamara wrote: "Runelords by David Farland. Worst ever published epic fantasy (well, that i've had the misfortune to read.) A mediocrity in all things combined with the most offensive (lack of) morality i've ever ..."

Agreed. David Farland made it onto my "never again" list based on The Runelords: The Sum of All Men alone.

There's also some really bizarre stuff going on in Anne Bishop's Black Jewels trilogy. It kept me reading at the time, but I was also going "bwuh?" at the names (Saetan, Lucivar) and the magic....

Anne Bishop is also on my "never again" list. Agree with you about the black jewels trilogy.

And, permanently on my "never again" list: Robert A. Heinlein

Friday by Robert A. Heinlein - rape is good
Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. Heinlein - women like being treated as sex objects
Starship Troopers by Robert A. Heinlein - war is good
Time Enough for Love by Robert A. Heinlein - incest is good
why is his stuff still in print? (though I'll grant the possibility -- just the possibility -- that his juvenile novels are not vile)

Al wrote: "I read ONE of LeGuin's books and never picked up another. (Lesson for authors: don't ever let a bad book get published with your name on it.) "

Out of interest: Which book? I've yet to read a truly bad LeGuin book (I've read about half her works so far). I wasn't overwhelmed by The Beginning Place, but would give it 3/5, so it still wouldn't make an All Time Worst-list. Whether you hate her views or not, I think it's a clear difference in stylistic and literary merit between her novels and say Terry Brooks. And I'm not even sure Brooks qualifies for an All Time Worst-list, even if I never liked anything I read by him.

The worst fantasy I had the misfortune to read was by a Swedish author called Eric Leijonhufvud. That's one of the few books I've never managed to finish. Crappy writing, crappy plot, fantastically sexist. Luckily enough I don't think he was ever translated, so most of the world is spared. ;)

Tamara wrote: "Runelords by David Farland. Worst ever published epic fantasy (well, that i've had the misfortune to read.) A mediocrity in all things combined with the most offensive (lack of) morality i've ever ..."

I'l second the Runelords condemnation. Great concept, but horrible execution - it read like a really bad role playing game, without the roll of the dice to make it at least halfway interesting. I gave it 2 books, just to see if he'd find his style once the novelty wore off . . . but it just got worse.

I LOVELOVELOVE Heinlein and I really enjoyed the Black Jewels Trilogy too, although after that the author dumbed it down with too many weaker sequels.

Deedee wrote: "Tamara wrote: "Runelords by David Farland. Worst ever published epic fantasy (well, that i've had the misfortune to read.) A mediocrity in all things combined with the most offensive (lack of) mora..."

The same with me. I spend three hours early one morning read the book, hate it, a waste of time.

To me, Le Guin is a master of fantasy storytelling. Her science fiction is totally passable and uninspiring.

Kevin wrote: "Deedee wrote: "Tamara wrote: "Runelords by David Farland. Worst ever published epic fantasy (well, that i've had the misfortune to read.) A mediocrity in all things combined with the most offensive..."

Several have said this and I have the entire series unread on a bookshelf. Should I just pack them away and make more room or give them a try?

I would recommend to just keep the first book to see if you like it then make room for the rest of the series.

Heyo! New to the group, but couldn't resist adding my 2 cents. I read Piers Anthony when I was younger. The book of his that had me thinking of throwing it in the trash was Firefly. That is shudderable stuff. Just . . .ick ick ick. Personally I can't stand Simon Green's writing style. I have yet to be able to get past chapter 2 in any of his books, yet I have friends who enjoy his work.

To be honest though, I used to be an editor before I became a librarian. At one time I got to read through some of the unsolicited submissions of fantasy stories that we recieved. And . . . well, I have to tell you, very little could be as bad as that!! To have a "prehistorical fantasy" where folks said things like "Zounds! What liest over yon hill there?" made me appreciate even such writers as Green, even if I can't read him.

I wish I'd ever gotten to edit some decent fantasy and SF stuff. But we mostly did romance.

I read a book recently, and although I finished it, the writing was definitely some of the worst I have come across in a published work. The Summoner

A fairly recent fantasy work I found really terrible was Midwinter. The beginning was good, and some of the characters had potential, but it went nowhere fast. The plot was unsavable in my opinion.

Pardon this blog if he's already been mentioned, but David Eddings Belgariad. I think I could have written that one myself. While I was still in high school.

I actually enjoy his Elenium and Tamuli trilogies despite the sexism and homophobia, but could not bear to read any of the Belgariad.

I read the Belgariad in high school... I think it was only my relative inexperience that got me through it. But after I was done I was without any desire to read anything by him again.

One of the worst books I've read is:

Quag Keep:


It's not even a long book. I just couldn't finish it at all. The characters spent all their time wandering in the desert for over half the book. It was awful to me.

Stephanie wrote: "To me, Le Guin is a master of fantasy storytelling. Her science fiction is totally passable and uninspiring."

To me, Le Guin is a master of Sci-Fi storytelling. Her Fantasy is totally passable and uninspiring (except Wizard of Earthsea . Go figure. But the worst ever is RA Salvatore's Drizzt books. Crap on an epic scale, and I hate it even more because it is so beloved.

Kevin wrote: "I guess most people don't like or care for the political undertone of the book...."

I gave up when the goat started behaving like a dog.

I just finished reading The Ringworld Throne. I found it very poorly written, with bland dialogue and characters and a disjointed plot. Horrible book, I probably will not be reading anymore Larry Niven due to this book.

The above suggestion of David Eddingsis a good (bad?) one as well. Reading any one of his series is a somewhat mediocre read. Read another series and you'll see him recycle plots and the oh so lame jokes. Read a third and you'll think "wow, didn't I already read this twice?"
I've seen a lot of people here slamming Goodkind (with good reason) but I'd re-read the entire Sword of Truth series twice before picking up a book by Eddings.

Lyndon Hardy's Master of the Five Magics.

I have a sentimental attachment to Quag Keep because of my D&D phase, though I'll readily admit it's not one of Norton's best, but it's Tolstoy compared to the sequel - Return to Quag Keep - note Norton didn't actually write it but farmed it out to Jean Rabe.

I didn't even make it half way through Master of the Five Magics. Very mechanical and uninspired.

Craig wrote: "I didn't even make it half way through Master of the Five Magics. Very mechanical and uninspired."

It became a byword among my friends for awfulness.

Well, to be fair, the author made the attempt. More than I'll ever do.

Good point, Craig. Some credit must be do for an author's effort.

As long as we're hating on books -- the only two books I've given one star to, so far, are Eragon and the first Belgariad book. They were both worthy of being thrown into the fire. ;)

Terence wrote: "I have a sentimental attachment to Quag Keep because of my D&D phase, though I'll readily admit it's not one of Norton's best, but it's Tolstoy compared to the sequel - Return to Quag Keep - note Norton didn't actually write it but farmed it out to Jean Rabe.

"Quag Keep" is interesting, but "Return to Quag Keep is beyond awful. Not only uninteresting, but the writer seemed to barely have read the first book.

Agree about Eregon. The Belgariad was good for its time - 5 books IIRC. And I thought better than Shannara back in '82. There was not much epic fantasy to choose from. I did get tired of the long series of trilogies in the same world. Still Silk remains one of my favorite fantasy characters.

Hmm, books in SF/F I actively gave one star to, as opposed to just abandoning the book ... Twilight, The Hallowed Hunt, The Risen Empire, Arrows of the Sun, The Captain's Witch. With the exception of the first and last book, those authors have written things I enjoyed.

About Marion Zimmer Bradley ... there's an element of badfic in there sometimes, I have to admit. But at the same time, I like her Darkover books. Probably because she's pretty good at conflict: inter- and intra-personal as well as inter- and intra-social. And at depicting and describing emotional states. When you're in the mood for something where the angst level is pretty high, Darkover books are usually a good choice, because you get angst and action. Maybe that explains why I like them despite thinking of them as a bit of a guilty pleasure, as Mark put it.

Both MZB and Anne McCaffrey can write good books or bad ones, perhaps depending on how badly they needed money that month? ;)

I tried reading one of McCarthy's Dragon Rider books but I didn't get far with it. Great concept though.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/64...

Worst book I ever tried to read. Horrible.

Chris wrote: "http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/64...

Worst book I ever tried to read. Horrible."

I own that book but haven't read it. You have this cover , which looks like some cheesy scifi. That adds another level of badness. Maybe other genres have this problem, too, but I see some of the worst covers on the scifi and fantasy books when I browse at the used bookstore.

Dragonriders of Pern was the first SF series I fell in love with. (In my defense, if one is needed, I was 10 or 11. ;) The series was a neat concept. (I recently re-read several books.) Eventually, I fell out of love with it, and feel as if I'm relatively aware of both its virtues and flaws at this point. A lot of what I said about MZB could apply to the Pern books too, I suppose.

Steven Barnes' Street Lethal trilogy, a futuristic martial arts fantasy that wasn't badly written, but his negative stereotypes were just blatant reverse racism. At least most of the books described above were attempts at something positive. But Barnes' works were just malicious denigration of a group of people he obviously doesn't like.

Craig, could you be more specific about Streetlethal and its sequels? I did a little digging but (not having read the trilogy) couldn't figure out exactly what/who you meant Barnes doesn't like.

The Shannara books were one of the first fantasy books I read and that was early highschool. They have a special place in my heart but I have t read them since so I can't really comment on those. I did stall out on The Belgariad series though more from personal reasons than anything regarding the book though it was slow going.

I'll probably get drawn and quartered but The Lord of the Rings is probably the worst fantasy I've read. So boring and long winded. That was an exercise in persistence.

You're not going to be drawn and quartered Felina. For slandering LOTR offenders are burned at the stake. Not. Seriously, what you like is for you choose and it's not for anyone to say otherwise.

I reread LOTR every now and again, just to make sure that I really, really don't like it.

I still don't.