SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Importance of promoting yourself
If you’re going to get bigger cash advances you have to prove to the publishing world, agents, editors, publishers, distributors, booksellers and book buyers that your manuscripts are worthy. That LOTS of people will buy them. Not hundreds of people or even thousands, but tens of thousands. That’s when publishers will sit up and take notice.
Other arguments I frequently see are: I’ve done the hard stuff, the writing, now it’s the publisher’s turn to print and promote my masterpiece; Even if my first book doesn’t do that well, there’s always a second book and other publishers. Besides, I already have the cash advance.
If you sit back and wait for the publisher to promote your pending masterpiece, it’s virtually guaranteed to go nowhere in sales, perhaps not even breaking 100 copies sold. If that happens, your publisher won’t even consider a second book. After all, if you were a publisher, would you consider a writer on whom you’ve already lost a bundle of money? I doubt I would. Of course, that leads to the third part of the vicious cycle I described, that of no further advances. Excerpt from Self-Promotion for Authors

Very important consideration for new authors, Larry.

New authors should realize that ad budgets are being squeezed down to almost nothing. Even the big NY houses can't afford to promote new authors unless they're "big names", such as popular (or controversial) politicians, sports stars, Hollyweird types, etc.

They'll do what they can to get your books on the shelves (and to the online stores), but they all expect YOU to do the work to get those books OFF the shelves via the cashier.

If you want to be more than a one-book "author", you'd better not be afraid of promotion. Instead, learn everything you can about it (you'll have to come out of your shell which may be uncomfortable).

I was waiting for a plane in Lexington and struck up a conversation with an author I'd never heard of (this was before I got into publishing). She was a romance writer and when I mentioned that my wife loved romances, she dragged out a mass-market paperback copy of her latest book (she carries a supply wherever she goes), autographed it to my wife, and gave it to me. Turned out she was Linda Lael Miller and has dozens of books and is a best-selling author. My wife read the book and eventually acquired a shelf full of the lady's work. That's an example of being ready to promote your work wherever you are. No, she wasn't pushy, just responded to an opportunity when the conversation got around to that point.

Al wrote: "Very important consideration for new authors, Larry.

New authors should realize that ad budgets are being squeezed down to almost nothing. Even the big NY houses can't afford to promote new author..."

Controversial politician books drive me crazy. I know that the publisher's interest is in making money, but I think this practice detracts from the theory that publishing house books represent an endorsement of quality that self-published books lack.

I have heard over and over again that social networking is highly necessary for all authors. That sounds like a really sweet interaction with a best-selling author. I could easily see an autographed gift copy leading me to be a fan for life. I wonder how many books she totes around.

Evelyn wrote: "Al wrote: "Very important consideration for new authors, Larry.

New authors should realize that ad budgets are being squeezed down to almost nothing. Even the big NY houses can't afford to promote..."

It's all about return on the dollar. A "big name" can insure sales (although Hillary's book bombed) and advertising has more leverage with such a book.

Even then, the "big names" still hit the interview circuit to promote their books if they want it to sell (which may be why Hillary's failed). The advantage they have is that your local morning news is more likely to give them some time on their show because of their "newsworthiness". Local authors with a newsworthy book can sometimes get face time as well, but not on the national market the "big names" command.

This has nothing to do with Indi vs published. It has to do with the realization that if you're a regular person with a first or second book, you're going to end up being a part-time marketer and you'd better get used to (and comfortable with) the idea. If you can't live with that, print up a few copies and give them to your close friends and relatives as gifts and forget about being a "real" author.

There IS another "out". You can hire someone to promote your book, but be ready to shell out some big bucks that you may never recover (it's always a gamble and has to do with public taste which is unpredictable).

As long as author wanna-be's keep publishing lousy books, the Indi market is going to suffer the perception of doubtful quality. This reflects on the Indi authors who do it right (get professional editing help and put out a quality product). This is sad because there is truly some good stuff out there.

As a legitimate eBook publisher, we see a lot of "edited" material submitted that has other problems (poor plot, big opening "info-dumps", etc.). Of the good stuff, we've yet to see ANY manuscript that didn't need in-house editing. This points out a problem with professional editing; just because someone charges for editing doesn't mean they know what they're doing. So use care in selecting an editor for your Indi work. You'll need a minimum of two edits: a story edit first and then a copy edit, best done by two different people. After that, someone will have to whip the product into shape for production to make sure the final product is visually appealing and correctly formatted (with all the parts present -- like a copyright page).

Al wrote: "It has to do with the realization that if you're a regular person with a first or second book, you're going to end up being a part-time marketer and you'd better get used to (and comfortable with) the idea.

As long as author wanna-be's keep publishing lousy books, the Indi market is going to suffer the perception of doubtful quality. This reflects on the Indi authors who do it right (get professional editing help and put out a quality product). This is sad because there is truly some good stuff out there."

I know it's an uphill battle to connect your book with readers regardless of Indie/traditional path. I am interested in the marketing angle and am having a blast reading the vast range of articles clamoring with advice on the matter. The (fairly obvious) realization that publishing houses put most of their promotional energy into big names has encouraged me to sample the indie approach, and so far it's fun.

Editing is a vital stage in creating a book, and it is very necessary to have others' eyes on every document. If you edit your own stuff, word omissions are likely. The more familiar you are with the content, the fewer fixation points your eyes need to make per line to construct meaning. For my first project, I used three different editors who were all very helpful. Of course, I am not sure what Indie authors can do to assure people that their books are not brimming with typos. Just claiming "I promise it was edited!" naturally sounds suspect.

Covers can certainly be another problem for indie projects. Not every writer has a lot of artistic and design sense. But covers are one of the fun parts, I think.

Evelyn wrote: "Al wrote: "It has to do with the realization that if you're a regular person with a first or second book, you're going to end up being a part-time marketer and you'd better get used to (and comfort..."

Evelyn, some excellent observations. I totally agree that books should be edited. If not by a professional book editor, then perhaps by a college level English major or even a local NEWSPAPER editor. I stress newspaper because neither radio nor television news staffers usually have the skill level necessary for book publishing. College students and newspaper editors can always use some extra income. Their pay is often far below other professions, even teachers. Hope that helps.

Al wrote: "Very important consideration for new authors, Larry.

New authors should realize that ad budgets are being squeezed down to almost nothing. Even the big NY houses can't afford to promote new author..."

Al, Sounds like an author who's really on the ball. Promotion is something every author should be thinking about.

I agree that good editing (and proofing) is crucial for all authors, and especially so for those of us going indie. I find typos and mistakes in books, magazines, and newspapers all the time! So, there is no shortage of work for good editors/proof readers!

Unfortunately, the budget is not always there for a new author to hire pros to do this. So, I ask as many writer/reader friends as I can to help me proof my work. It's been pretty successful so far. Often my beta readers will catch things I've missed.

But, sometimes mistakes still slip through. It bothers me when I find a typo in an ebook I've already launched! Of course, I correct it and upload a new version ASAP, but I can't take back the disappointment from my paying readers who find a mistake.

One idea I've implemented is to ask my readers to let me know about any typos they find in my ebooks, and then I'll make the corrections and send them an updated version. My goal is to send out as few revised copies as possible!

Great information! I am a new soon-to-be- author. I have an agent sending my work out to publishers right now and for the last six months I have been working very hard to build an on-line presence so that when my book does come out, I have several platforms to promote it. I have also been debating whether to plan a tour with or without the Publisher. Any thoughts on this, for a new author? Some have said that book tours aren't worth the cost?
I'd love your thoughts on it!

Nice job of sliding this one in, Larry. Now can you please either move it to or at least, in the future, restrain yourself to posting this sort of thing in the Author's folder where it belongs?

Denae wrote: "Nice job of sliding this one in, Larry. Now can you please either move it to or at least, in the future, restrain yourself to posting this sort of thing in the Author's folder where it belongs?"

Maybe I'll just slide out of this group. I really resent being a member of multiple groups and having each group with obscure, petty little rules. The topic was posted a week ago an only now are you wanting it moved? I'm not only an author, I'm a reader who was reading Heinlein before you were born and chatting in person with Isaac Asimov while you were probably still learning to read. Go back to your knitting and I'll go back to my writing books.

My apologies to everyone for inadvertently killing this discussion, or at least that part which depended upon Larry and his excerpts. I did not expect either his petty attack or rage-quitting, particularly as I have no standing in this group beyond that of member. Anyway, I apologize for derailing the conversation. Carry on.

Woah, what the hell kind of attitude is that, Larry?

"Go back to your knitting"? Really? Can the sexist bullshit man.

I don't care if you spoke with Asimov, lived with Heinlein or circle-jerked with Plato himself. You don't speak to members like that.

Maybe it's best you do leave. Or, if you prefer, I've got a size 12 boot right here...

Denae wrote: "Nice job of sliding this one in, Larry. Now can you please either move it to or at least, in the future, restrain yourself to posting this sort of thing in the Author's folder where it belongs?"

Denae,

I do not agree with Larry's rant against you, but I don't understand why it was wrong for him to post this in the members discussion section? I guess so many of us authors ride the line between "promoter" and book fan that we may do things without meaning to break the rules. Especially as Larry pointed out, every groups rules are different. I thought the heading of the discussion was pretty straightforward. I didn't realize he was promoting his own work (if he even was) which I understood was the big no-no here.

"Knitting" isn't sexist. I know (and know of) several guys who knit (and quite well too). One of them is a professional wrestler (and not a bit effeminate) and the other who started knitting to help out his wife with a Christmas project, then decided he liked it and kept it up.

The phrase is an old one and was NEVER sexist, equally applied to men and women alike who were sticking their noses in where it didn't belong. Since Larry is from that era, I presume he uses the phrase in its old-fashioned sense (as do I since I'm older than dirt -- in fact, I was was on the D.I.R.T. project).

In any case, Larry's post got a good subject rolling until the personal attacks were interjected. Can we get back to what is a very important part of an author's life (assuming you write to get published and make an income)?

I assume that subject is allowable here?????? If not, we need to move it where it IS germane.

Subject matter works here, as far as I'm concerned.