SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

I love books with an occult or fantasy element to them, whether that be full on epic fantasy, tales of Victorian vampires in Paris centuries ago, or demons haunting people in modern day London. I fell in love with Anne Rice's vampire chronicles about a year and a half ago and I would like to read more books like these (or books starring other similar creatures). I love these books for many reasons, but mostly because they are about what I call REAL vampires, but at the same time these ruthless creatures can express such beautiful human emotion.
When I reveal to people (mostly girls) that I love vampire novel in this day and age, it's automatically assumed that I like the Twilight series or all of it's contemporaries. I read the first 2 books of the Twilight series because of all the hype. I only read the second book because everyone I knew, romantics or die-hard bookworms were telling me it was amazing and so good. This was years ago, before the movies. I hated those books. I'd shied away from Y.A novels aimed at girls since the age of 13 because I found them unbearable. I hated The Princess Diaries series, all that girly sappy stuff. I detest chick-lit and romance/sex novels. It seems like books aimed at that demographic (Y.A girls) are filled with unrequited love and lust.
I know so many girls like that but because of all this Twilight craziness and the huge let down I got from the series, I've ignored any book I come across which sounds even vaguely similar.
Every time I walk into a book shop, in the fantasy/sci-fi/horror section I see all these dark coloured books with some attractive, usually goth, girl on the front with some sort of rose or whatever. They all look the same to me. It seems they are trying to sell the naughty lustful idea of forbidden love rather than an original or quality story. Am I being prejudice?
I've ignored so many bestselling books because of what I've deemed the "Twilight curse" XD hahahaha. I have friends who hate Twilight but who love The Vampire Diaries and True Blood (on T.V that is). I've watched the shows a few times but they all seem to be the same at the end of the day - some girl feeling oddly drawn to some vampire guy and then maybe she gets torn between him and another guy. They like to have sex a lot. The girl is depicted as submissive/a loner/needy etc. with the guy being totally hot blah blah blah. The end.
When I read Rice's Vampire Chronicles, I did find Lestat very attractive and to my surprise I wanted to see him get a little bit of action, (I've only read the first 2.5 books so far btw!) so I'm wondering if maybe I should try out these new Y.A vampire novels. But I don't ever read romance as a genre of it's own. I've leafed through a few pages in these books before and thought immediately that they were written in quite basic English (this could just be me being prejudice of Y.A novels in general!), with more emphasis being given to the girl repeatedly gushing over the vampire boy or constantly talking about his appeal.

The popular books I've repeatedly ignored:
-Charlaine Harris's Sookie Stackhouse series
-Richelle Mead's Vampire Academy series
-Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake Vampire Hunter series
-L.J Smith Vampire Diaries series (I know they pre-date Twilight!)
-Ellen Schreiber's Vampire Kisses series
-Rachel Caine's Morganville Vampires series
-Jenna Black's Morgan Kingsley series
-Alyson Noel's The Immortals series
-L.J Smith's Nightworld series

etc.

So? Am I wrong? I just feel that these books were written to feed the minds of young teens who have yet to experience a real relationship or kiss a boy or whatever. I know Anne Rice has come under criticism for her writing before but to be brutally honest, I just don't see these as serious or proper "novels". Harsh and snobby, I know, but I'd love for all of you to try and sway my judgment in favour of these books!

Well, the Charlaine Harris books are pretty fluffy and absolutely have a strong romance component. They're pretty fun though, and a lot more stuff happens than simply insipid romance.

The first 4-5 of the Anita Blake books are awesome and are more about her kicking butt then anything. After that... they become all about Blake sleeping with as many men as humanly possible. It's incredibly disappointing.

I would not say the Blake books are for teenagers though. They can be pretty dark. There's a better argument the Sookie Stackhouse books are, but I enjoy them anyway. It's not genius literature, but it's entertaining.

The others I know naught about.

I am a older teen/young adult, so I don't know that I really have the kind of perspective that you are looking for with this question. My experience with teen vampire books is limited to The House of Night series by P.C. Cast and the first two (or maybe 3?) of the Vampire Academy series.

Judging from your post, I would guess that you would not like the House of Night books. The characters are often little more than cardboard - we have the sassy gay boy, the shopping obsessed girls, etc. These books a strange mixture of grown up and child. Characters have sex, but they regularly say words like "bullpoopie" or gossip like they are in sixth grade. These might be nice books to read and make fun of, but other than that, I would suggest that you skip them.

About Vampire academies, I cannot say much about because I only read a few of them. In my opinion, they were much better than House of Night, and the main female character is a strong one. She is some kind of half-vampire warrior who is training at the academy to protect the other vampires.

I have never read The Silver Kiss, but someone recommended it to me as a teen vampire book that was written several years before Twilight. This person implied strongly that Twilight was just a dumbed-down version of this book, but I cannot confirm/deny this.

So I guess that my overall answer to your question about potentially missing out is that most of them can be skipped but that there might be some hidden gems. I hope that you can find the good and ignore the bad.

Huh.

I haven't read any of those. Most I've never even heard of.

So... I'm useless. Sorry :P

Samantha wrote: "Well, the Charlaine Harris books are pretty fluffy and absolutely have a strong romance component. They're pretty fun though, and a lot more stuff happens than simply insipid romance.

The first 4-5 of the Anita Blake books are awesome and are more about her kicking butt then anything. After that... they become all about Blake sleeping with as many men as humanly possible. It's incredibly disappointing.
..."

I agree with Pia's comment above.

I also read the first one of Caine's Morganville Vampires; based on your post, I don't think you would like that series.

I've recently discovered Tanith Lee. Many of her novels are about vampires, ghosts, werewolves, etc., but they are not at all like the current day "teen fantasy" vampire novels. I'd recommend them to you.... but be aware, Tanith Lee can be very dark and disturbing in her novels.

ditto Samantha & Deedee. Charlaine Harris' novels are really fun...but unfortunately the quality does crash after a handful of them. definitely not teenage angsty stuff, but nowhere near as adult angsty as 'interview'.

LKH's books likewise absolutely smashing for the first half-dozen, but STOP before book 9 or so, since you say you don't like the sex/romance.

vampire diaries are utter crap, and i made it through all 4 of those twilight books. haven't read the rest of the series you mention, but several of them i'm avoiding for the same reason - i don't want everything i read to be basically the same thing constantly rehashed, so i'm pretty much done with the teen lust/angst version of vampirism.

the Tanith Lee suggestion is very nice - but she tends to be a love-it-or-hate-it author. many of her heroines are passively trapped in some pit of despair, so if you require fast-paced action, she may not be for you. but her worldbuilding and her characters are lyrical and lovely, even when they're hideous. she has a vampire trilogy (starts with Dark Dance), but it's quite different than your traditional vampire novel.

i'll toss out Kim Newman's vampire books, which start with Anno Dracula. no teen angst in there at all. for a more modern take on the vicious sort of vampires rather than sparkly ones, Charlie Huston's Joe Pitt books are good.

I don't think you're wrong -- I've been avoiding most of those series like the plague, too (though I've heard good things about Mead's VA books, and having read another one of her series, she can be quite good when she wants to be!). But if you're curious, you can check out reviews for some of them and see what the consensus is/check them out from your local library/etc.

As far as vampire novels go, I really liked Sunshine by Robin McKinley, Peeps/The Last Days by Scott Westerfeld, and Let the Right One in by John Ajvide Lindqvist. No teenage romantic fluff, no sparkles.

Deedee wrote: "I've recently discovered Tanith Lee. Many of her novels are about vampires, ghosts, werewolves, etc., but they are not at all like the current day "teen fantasy" vampire novels. I'd recommend them to you.... but be aware, Tanith Lee can be very dark and disturbing in her novels. "

I read Tanith Lee avidly when I was younger. I stopped, i think, because there was a run of disappointing ones and then i had trouble getting hold of the last two Secret Books of Paradys. I really must seek her out again.

As for Mairead's original question, there's so many books out there a preference has to be made. I like to consider myself pretty eclectic in my reading, and would usually claim that I don't dismiss anything out of hand (although I've never read Twilight). Personally, if a book doesn't appeal to me for whatever reason it will probably take a recommendation from a friend or a review stating that it isn't the book it's being marketed as.

(I also have an quirk that if something is hugely popular I'll often avoid it, at least until the hype has died down and it's had time to settle. For instance, I had had The Da Vinci Code recommended to me before it became huge, and never quite got around to it. Some months later I was travelling by train and I counted more than ten people in the same carriage reading it and shuddered at the thought of being part of the crowd.)

Poppy Z Brite's Lost Souls is a slightly older, darker vampire story. I also liked Let the Right One In and George RR Martin's Fevre Dream, as well as Sheridan Le Fanu's Carmilla.

Not vampires, but similar in tone to Rice and PZB are Storm Constantine's Grigori trilogy (and her Wraeththu series for that matter, but I prefer the Grigori trilogy), starting with Stalking Tender Prey.

Now, all of these books contain sex (and love of some kind, I suppose), but they're books for adults and a far cry from Twilight-esque romance.

Michelle wrote: "ditto Samantha & Deedee. Charlaine Harris' novels are really fun...but unfortunately the quality does crash after a handful of them. definitely not teenage angsty stuff, but nowhere near as adult..."

Wow thanks so much Michelle! Your suggestions sound great! Haha I'd assumed Kim Newman would be a woman! XD but he seems quirky in appearance which is usually a good sign I've found! Haha. Anno Dracula sounds really interesting!! Something fresh! It isn't too "historical fiction" is it? I thought I would like that genre and I think I have in kids and Y.A books years ago, when I was less picky, but recently I tried out 'The Dreamthief's Daughter: A Tale of the Albino' by Michael Moorcock, which seemed really promising but it just failed to draw me in. I understand that it's in the early 20th century in Germany and the narrator is a German aristocrat by my God it felt like I was more so in a German history lesson and learning more about Adolf Hitler than the story! It seemed to go on for pages and it felt like the author was just trying to show off his knowledge. That was my first time reading something by that author!

and you suggested Tanitha Lee as well! Hmmm worth a try I think!

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer this question! (:

Paul 'Pezter' wrote: "Deedee wrote: "I've recently discovered Tanith Lee. Many of her novels are about vampires, ghosts, werewolves, etc., but they are not at all like the current day "teen fantasy" vampire novels. I'd ..."

Haha Paul I'm the EXACT same as you in that sense! I'll avoid popular books like you said, (with the Harry Potter series being an exception, but I WAS a kid! haha) even classics sometimes! But I usually feel the need to read them then when I find out a film version will be released soon (that's why I ended up reading Twilight! My best friend really wanted to go to the movie!). It annoys me when people harp on about a great movie that they apparently love so much and then I ask them what they thought about the book and they're like "huh?" XD. This has actually happened to me about twice in the past with the Harry Potter movies! Honestly! Haha and these weren't even kids! Haha

Deedee wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Well, the Charlaine Harris books are pretty fluffy and absolutely have a strong romance component. They're pretty fun though, and a lot more stuff happens than simply insipid roman..."

Hmmm Tanitha Lee seems popular!!
Is that her real name? Her name gives me a feeling of deja vu....but I know I've never seen her on the shelves before in a bookshop or library while browsing! Maybe her name just rings a bell because of the Edgar Allan Poe poem Annabel Lee!? Hmmm.

and Deedee what do you mean exactly by "can be very dark and disturbing in her novels" ??
Because the Anne Rice vampire books are said to be "exotic" and classified as horror, I enjoyed them, but I would not call them either of these things! I just read the novel Spanky by Christopher Fowler, which I did find disturbing to some degree but I still enjoyed it! Do you mean violence or rape etc.? Or that the characters are put into uncomfortable and compromising situations that are uncomfortable to read? Can you give me an example without revealing the novel?
Because I would hate to miss put on a great read just because I don't want my overactive imagination to make me all jittery when it gets dark! Haha I like to read at night and sometimes into the early hours (it's the only time I have time and quiet to do so!) but while reading Spanky I must admit that my imagination DID run rampant! I was too jittery to leave my bed most nights to even go to the toilet because of that book! Haha I kept thinking that there would be someone waiting for me in the shadows of the corridor on the way to the bathroom. Or ready to jump out at me from the shower or looking over my shoulder with an evil grin when I went to wash my hands at the sink and glimpsed in the mirror! That's a good thing though because it means that the character of the daemon was truly brought to life! And it did not deter me from continuing with the book, as I knew it was just my vivid imagination acting up, it was funny!

I haven't read all of Tanith Lee's novels (yet :0) ) but of the ones I've read the comment "Or that the characters are put into uncomfortable and compromising situations that are uncomfortable to read? " is very descriptive. I've read:
Piratica: Being a Daring Tale of a Singular Girl's Adventure Upon the High Seas
The Silver Metal Lover
Kill the Dead
and in each of them, there is at least one main character whose beliefs about reality are incorrect -- and tragically so. Piratica is filed under (YA) but that's because (1) heroine is a teenaged girl and (2) descriptions are (YA), not blood & gore. Her vampire novels may go the blood and gore route, I don't know as I haven't read them yet. My "sooner rather than later" Tanith Lee books are:
Elephantasm, Electric Forest and The Birthgrave.

Evilynn wrote: "Poppy Z Brite's Lost Souls is a slightly older, darker vampire story. I also liked Let the Right One In and George RR Martin's Fevre Dream, as well as Sher..."

I'd second George RR Martin's Fevre Dream, but then, that man knows how to tell a story. I thought Carmilla was very 19th century and not very horrific for those of us in the jaded 21st century.

Other adult vampire novels: Sunshine by Robin McKinley (which people either love or hate; I love) and Agyar by Steven Brust.

Definitely not missing out on Charlaine Harris. Snub away. I'd be fine with the story if the writing were better.

I've read the Twilight series and found it mostly meh (except New Dawn...that was just wtf). One of the few times when I enjoyed the movies better (but still not very much).

I found Charlaine Harris to be refreshing after the other urban fantasy that I had read as it lacked both teenage angst as well as a super-capable, combat ready heroine. Instead of wearing leather bustiers or frothy ruffles, the heroine shops at Walmart. The series becomes less innocent and less unique as it progresses, but it made a nice break originally.

I loved the Anita Blake novels, but stopped reading after they turned into porn. Definitely worth trying out the first book to see if the style appeals because you have quite a few books before the style change happens.

One series I'll throw out there because it hasn't been mentioned yet is Tanya Huff's Blood series, starting with Blood Price. I loved these books when they came out in the 90s and I don't remember them having the qualities that you detest.