Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

You said this - So to those who are willing to fire shots at fellow writers: You are not writers, and you never will be. Real writers stand on their own merits, and don't need to force artificial circumstances to prove themselves. Real writers support their peers, cheering and applauding their success. Real writers look at success and celebrate, knowing that emulating and admiring those with it will create it for themselves.

I have to say I totally agree with you :)

You are completely right. Glad you brought this to our attention.

Adam Santo
Temperature: Dead and Rising

Patti wrote: "You said this - So to those who are willing to fire shots at fellow writers: You are not writers, and you never will be. Real writers stand on their own merits, and don't need to force artificial c..."

Aw c'mon Patti. You've certainly described being nice, but I don't think any of us has the experience or is in a position to define what a real writer is. Your definition deals only with politeness rather than the quality of their writing.
There are any number of writers who could be considered surly, as well as hugely famous writers who likely were not the friendliest people around. Think about Edgar Allan Poe who was orphaned as a child, moved from his native Boston to Virginia where he was placed with a foster family, but never adopted and later distanced himself from them. He also was a failed West Point cadet. Had a wife who died just a few years after they married. Then Poe died at 40 before his amazing writing achievements became widely known. Most likely a surly, bitter, unhappy man as can easily be seen in pictures. Then there was F. Scott Fitzgerald who also had his ups and downs, including being tossed out of school, constantly in debt and a severe alcoholic.
Sorry, but I doubt if either was particularly upbeat and friendly toward others, including other writers. Just my thoughts, but being a good writer has nothing to do with being a friendly person.

Larry wrote: "Patti wrote: "You said this - So to those who are willing to fire shots at fellow writers: You are not writers, and you never will be. Real writers stand on their own merits, and don't need to forc..."

Actually, no, i didn't, but I certainly agreed with Beth, who did. I am sure there are a ton of very successful and not so successful writers out there that a not so "nice", but who needs them here on goodreads? :)

Beth wrote: "Please read this blog post and comments. Help Goodreads authors and report known malicious reviews. Bogus reviews to bring down ratings and sales will not be tolerated and will prevent us from givi..."

I am so glad that Beth put this on GR. I found that I had my first two-star review on Amazon. The individual did not read the book and made some fairly strong comments. My husband went in and looked and saw that her other reviews were mostly single star reviews and all given from an ebook preview for new writers. After the fact, I said maybe I should be pleased that I got two stars, but now after reading this I'm wondering if I should report her? Anybody have any thoughts?

Beth wrote: "Please read this blog post and comments. Help Goodreads authors and report known malicious reviews. Bogus reviews to bring down ratings and sales will not be tolerated and will prevent us from givi..."

Oh and Beth, I did try to post a comment on the blog with my Google account, but it wouldn't post :(

Collette wrote: "Beth wrote: "Please read this blog post and comments. Help Goodreads authors and report known malicious reviews. Bogus reviews to bring down ratings and sales will not be tolerated and will prevent..."

Patti wrote: "Larry wrote: "Patti wrote: "You said this - So to those who are willing to fire shots at fellow writers: You are not writers, and you never will be. Real writers stand on their own merits, and don'..."

Patti, gee, we must have different screens. Nowhere in the posting do I see Beth saying what you claim. I didn't realize this was supposed to be a private club for selected "writers" only. Who gets to decide who's selected? You? Me? Somebody who doesn't like either of us? The alternatives are pretty distasteful don't you think?

Collette wrote: "Beth wrote: "Please read this blog post and comments. Help Goodreads authors and report known malicious reviews. Bogus reviews to bring down ratings and sales will not be tolerated and will prevent..."

It depends on what was said. If it was an attack on you, then reporting might be a good idea. If she said she didn't like the book and listed reasons, then absolutely not. A reviewer is entitled to their opinion - otherwise reviews become meaningless. At least that's my take on the situation.

Larry wrote: "Collette wrote: "Beth wrote: "Please read this blog post and comments. Help Goodreads authors and report known malicious reviews. Bogus reviews to bring down ratings and sales will not be tolerated..."

Hi Larry,

Thank you so much for your input. I agree with you completly. When I read books, I do read reviews - both the good and the bad - to help me decide. I believe that a writer should be proud of their work and allow it to stand on its own without using underhanded tactics that hurt others. If someone is writing reviews for their own personal gain, it will catch up to them (e.g. Smashwords) and discredit will follow.

The only way I could have described the post on my book was 'angry'. Since she didn't read the entire story, I let it go and figured the people who have read it enjoyed it and that's all that matters to me!
But my husband had said that there was one writer in there who had two books. She gave both single stars. The second book only has her review, once again based off the sample. I have to say right now that I haven't looked myself or read any of the books she reviewed, so I can't say for sure that she's way off base. I think I would do that before saying anything to anyone. I'm really hesitant to say anything but wonder if it's the right thing to do! :)

Thanks again Larry!

What a timely comment! I just received a one-star review from a reader who won my book in a Goodreads contest. Although I have 11-5 stars on Amazon and a 4 star from Big Al, this person's rating makes my book look horrible. If you read her review, she doesn't recognize it is a memoir. She doesn't have anything to say about the quality of the book, just that she didn't like 'the main character'!

Collette wrote: "Larry wrote: "Collette wrote: "Beth wrote: "Please read this blog post and comments. Help Goodreads authors and report known malicious reviews. Bogus reviews to bring down ratings and sales will no..."

In this new EBook age where anyone can become an "author" without any editing oversight, selection of reviewers can also prove difficult. After all, if one isn't yet a skilled writer, how can they honestly evaluate someone else's work. I recently was put into a situation that I hope to never encounter again. An author was seeking "honest" reviews so I agreed to review the book in return for having my new mystery reviewed. We were to post reviews without discussion or consultation. My book received four stars, for which I was quite thankful (After being a writer for more than 45 years I still get worried about critical comment). When I read the author's work I was dismayed at the end product and faced a dilemma: my honest appraisal or ducking the issue, being polite and giving multiple stars. I pondered for three days before providing a very poor rating. It was honest, but I felt like a louse. I'm at the point where I'm unable to decide whether to solicit reviews from any source other than traditional media outlets. As to what's the "right" thing to do, I can't answer that other than to advise you let your conscience be your guide. Don't let yourself listen to that little ego devil that sits on all our shoulders. Hope that helps. :-)

Carol wrote: "What a timely comment! I just received a one-star review from a reader who won my book in a Goodreads contest. Although I have 11-5 stars on Amazon and a 4 star from Big Al, this person's rating ..."

Carol wrote: "What a timely comment! I just received a one-star review from a reader who won my book in a Goodreads contest. Although I have 11-5 stars on Amazon and a 4 star from Big Al, this person's rating ..."

My opinion on your post is that you may want to trust those who read the reviews. If it's clearly a memoir and she didn't like the main character, then I suspect others will grasp her lack of comprehension and react accordingly. That's my take, but it's your book and your decision. Best,

Well said Beth. Thanks for sharing this on Goodreads.

I think it's very difficult for authors to exchange reviews, and is something I no longer do. I expect honest reviews (and I feel all the reviews I've received thus far have been honest), but I don't want to put someone in a position where they feel lousy for giving me a poor rating after I've given them a fine rating...or vice versa. But to give poor ratings without having read the book (ie., based off the sample only) is not ethical in my opinion.

I'm new to the writing and reviewing world. My first book was published in April of this year, with my second coming out this fall. When I first got started, I found some other Indie authors and asked for reviews.

All of the reviews were very honest and all 4 and 5 stars. One reviewer sent me a personal e-mail and said she just couldn't get into it and did not want to review it and give me any bad reviews just because she didn't like it didn't mean that other wouldn't like it. I sincerely appreciated her honesty on that.

I have in turn reviewed some books that I could just not either get into or understand. Instead of giving them bad reviews, I sent them personal e-mails and told them what I liked and didn't like about the stories. I always try to be fair.

Those people who just read the sneak preview of the first chapters and then give bad reviews should be reported and not be allowed to enter reviews.

Stacy,
I agree with your approach. I think a private email with honest appraisal is best, if you don't feel a good review is justified.
When seeking reviewers it is great if you can find one who likes the genre and/or similar style.

Larry, I'm trusting Goodreads readers to make their own judgements, too. Thanks!

Dale wrote: "I think it's very difficult for authors to exchange reviews, and is something I no longer do. I expect honest reviews (and I feel all the reviews I've received thus far have been honest), but I don..."

I've been in the writing biz for 45 years and I just don't understand why anyone would want or do a review based just on a "sample." We're not talking a chic wine tasting here folks where you try six or eight wines. and then buy one bottle (maybe). We're talking something someone has poured their life into for months or years. Even if a book is awful it deserves to be read through or until the reviewer can no longer bear anymore. Even then, it should be spot read to ensure the work is consistently bad. Also, if a book is a poor offering, reviewers should should point out where and why the book goes astray. No writer can improve if he/she is writing in a vacuum. That's my take on it anyway.

Dale wrote: "I think it's very difficult for authors to exchange reviews, and is something I no longer do. I expect honest reviews (and I feel all the reviews I've received thus far have been honest), but I don..."

I kind of shy away from it. I prefer to read books by Authors that I don't know. Plus I have very little time to read let alone review (very grateful to those that do!!! - huge hugs!)

I will promote other Authors books though on my site in a small way of being able to give back. http://paradox-theangelsarehere.blogs...

Larry wrote: "Patti wrote: "You said this - So to those who are willing to fire shots at fellow writers: You are not writers, and you never will be. Real writers stand on their own merits, and don't need to forc..."

I think you have a point Larry. What you do to others in no way affects your talent for writing and your ability to produce a well written and enjoyable novel. It does however reflect upon your professionalism and well what kind of person you are. If you're not careful one will affect the other. Meaning you read too many bad things about what a person has done no matter how much talent they have you probably aren't going to want to support their work.

For example the article by the writers of the Magnolia League insulting all writers and readers of the young adult genre pretty much clenched that I wouldn't pick up their work if it landed on my doorstep free of charge. I'd actually be more likely to throw it in the trash than give it to charity. That's not a reflection of their talent, that a reflection on their attitude toward their peers and fans. I have no idea whether they're talented or not. I just know that I take offense to adult readers of YA being compared to child predators and therefore would never support their work.

Just thought I'd note, I wouldn't rate the book poorly without having read it, I just wouldn't read it on principle.

Stacy wrote: "I'm new to the writing and reviewing world. My first book was published in April of this year, with my second coming out this fall. When I first got started, I found some other Indie authors and as..."

To Larry and Stacy,

Yes, honesty is definitely best! If we are to grow we should take the good with the bad. Sometimes the bad is the best advice given - if it is given honestly!

I am so glad that Beth put this on GR. I found that I had my first two-star review on Amazon. The individual did not read the book and made some fairly strong comments. My husband went in and looked and saw that her other reviews were mostly single star reviews and all given from an ebook preview for new writers. After the fact, I said maybe I should be pleased that I got two stars, but now after reading this I'm wondering if I should report her? Anybody have any thoughts?

I like how these two guys put it: (They’re opinions on bad reviews...) And they're two of the most successful indies out there so I think their opinions carry a lot of weight.

http://donovancreed.com/2011/03/bad-r...
http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2011/07...

I have had someone go out and hit “no” on all of my positive reviews. It sure seems malicious, but who knows... I’ve also had people give a bad review without actually reading the book, they admit to that in the review. I don’t think that’s very nice, but what can you do about it? Let’s face it, they pretty much discredit themselves when they do that. If your book goes viral...then the haters seem to come out of the woodwork.

In response to this topic...I am an author who listed a book give away on Goodreads, and two young individuals posted 1 star reviews -one said there lacked description, while the other said there was too much description- the second didn't even complete reading the book! and by the way, posted the review the same day I shipped the book out to her in Australia!!

I had other reviews by authors and readers on Amazon who indicated my writing was very good, so I guess I will chalk this up to immature and uninformed readers...I wish their reviews could be flagged....


I am currently hosting two book giveaways on my website http://www.fantasyromanceoccult.com Hope those receiving the hard copies of my title decide to post their comments AFTER reading the title in its entirety! Thanks for letting me share...Tina

Collette wrote: "Stacy wrote: "I'm new to the writing and reviewing world. My first book was published in April of this year, with my second coming out this fall. When I first got started, I found some other Indie ..."

Thanks Staci and good luck with your new book.

Dantalion of the Goetia wrote: "In response to this topic...I am an author who listed a book give away on Goodreads, and two young individuals posted 1 star reviews -one said there lacked description, while the other said there w..."

Flagging could also be abused. If someone is intelligent enough to read the reviews, hopefully they'll grasp the significance of an abnormal review.

Just a thought to share based on my years as a journalist. Many people have the mistaken idea they can write and so have no comprehension of what it takes to be a good writer in any medium. If a writer is to put themselves out there in their work, he/she must develop a thick skin or the amateurs/dilettantes will drive one crazy.

Cheri wrote: "I am so glad that Beth put this on GR. I found that I had my first two-star review on Amazon. The individual did not read the book and made some fairly strong comments. My husband went in and looke..."

I checked out both of those links, they were great, thank you. Patti

Larry wrote: "Collette wrote: "Stacy wrote: "I'm new to the writing and reviewing world. My first book was published in April of this year, with my second coming out this fall. When I first got started, I found ..."

Thank you Larry...

So...you are an author (as I am) and you got as harsh review...but, it is not just that the review is harsh, it is downright mean...Congrats...you have been slammed.

Here's what I am talking about: I have received numerous e-mails in the last few years from so-called book publicity firms who promise to make an author's book look good by posting (bogus) rave reviews on sites such as Amazon, Library Thing and yes...GoodReads. But, the catch is, when you pay this firm, they not only post reviews that make your book look good, they will ask you for a list of authors you consider competition, and low and behold, the PR firm will then post negative reviews about those authors. And the reviews are sometimes downright mean. And while it is often obvious to readers in the know that the review is bogus, numerous prospective readers will take the bad review to heart... and this does hurt sales.

So...which authors are paying for this type of PR... most likely newbies and self-published authors who simply do not understand the consequences... nor care about them.

I'm a traditional author, neither of my publishers would tolerate such underhanded PR tactics... nor would I ever stoop so low. I agree that all writers should, out of respect for writers, be wary and of such tactics and report/share experience in regard to them. However, when it comes right down to it, the nitty-gritty of stopping this type of behavior is for the Websites to police the reviews. I feel no person should be allowed to post a review if they are not willing to do so under their real name... GoodReads... are you listening?

I have listed several GR Giveawys of my books and I will consider doing so in the future... but, whenever I hold a contest and then I send the winner an ARC copy or an author's copy that is clearly designated it is not the final edition and then I get a review that complains of lack of proofreading... I have to wonder IS THIS WORTH IT?

Elizabeth Eagan-Cox
www.ElizabethEaganCox.net

Well said, Elizabeth! I never talk about proof-reading in reviews... Nor is a reviewer supposed to, especially for an ARC! A reviewer should be reviewing the content as he/she sees it, it should be honest. I try to read a book for review from the point of view of the story. In other words, I involve myself in the story. If proof-reading is a big problem in a final publication, I will mention it only in a separate message to either publisher or author, depending on whether it is self-published by a company which does not offer that option. I am sorry to hear that phoney reviews of that type are out there, and when I finally get published I will certainly be on the lookout for this kind of irresponsible behaviour and hopefully choose wisely. Thanks to Beth, too, for bringing this subject up.

I have one thing more to say. As a reviewer, it bothers me that some authors (very few) try to influence their rating. Fortunately, I have only run into one.

Wow Elizabeth, I honestly didn't know PR companies out there did that. I could not imagine being part of something like that. I had hired a couple review companies to do professional reviews for me. If they turned around and asked me who I wanted to go up against and what they could do to help, I'd tell them to forget about giving me a review. If you can't do it honestly - forget it!

I look at it this way... There are millions of people out there. Some are going to like my book, and some are not. If they don't like it, fine. If you are going to review the book, please tell me what you didn't like about it. Don't just tell me you hate it.

There is no way that I would put a review out or ask someone else to put a review out against another author just to further myself. That in my opinion is just beyond wrong.

Elizabeth wrote: "So...you are an author (as I am) and you got as harsh review...but, it is not just that the review is harsh, it is downright mean...Congrats...you have been slammed.

Here's what I am talking ab..."

Elizabeth, I also confess to being shocked and I consider myself an industry insider, have worked as a book publicist for many years at one of the nation's top public relations firms of the era.

Here's my take on the situation you described:
It's a SERIOUS ethical breach to pay a reviewer to review one's own book. 1. How can any reader trust a review if he/she knows the reviewer charges a fee for the review? From my viewpoint as a journalist and publicist for more than four decades, such activity would constitute conflict of interest, deceptive practices, possibly even consumer fraud, because: 2. If I were to pay for a review, I would expect a damn good one-otherwise why pay for it. There are always people around waiting to criticize a book without charge.

At some levels, conflict of interest is a crime. At most legitimate media outlets (newspapers, magazines, radio and TV stations) undisclosed conflict of interest will get you fired.

If you know the name of the PR agencies involved, suggest you send a letter documenting the situation to any trade associations in which they have membership and also to the top national associations whether or not the agencies are members. Those would include PRSA and Publicity Club of New York. You may also want to consider major newspapers in the area where the agencies are located.

Such behavior is reprehensible.

Hi Larry;

I agree with you in regard to paying anyone to review a book, professionally this is not the way to go. In fact, a long time ago, it would have been called a type of "payola."

The 'offers' from the unethical PR firms (and in most cases, the 'firm' is probably not a real firm, it is one or two people operating as a bogus company) go to my junk mail folder and from there I delete them. I write for a living, I do not have the time to wager a one-writer assault on these firms, especially since they change their names and URLs as easy as you or I pick up a pen. I realize that the majority of the biz of publishing still revolves around the E. Coast...I am in Calif. out of the loop as an individual writer. Both of my publishers are on the E. Coast, but I certainly do not expect them to deal with this problem, they are every bit as busy as I am. In a perfect world and given more the 24 hours in a day, more than 7 days in a week, I would consider your advice, because your advice is sound, though for me, as a working writer, it is unrealistic.

I feel very strongly that the weight of the scam review situation is on the shoulders of review sites (as I previously mentioned). A simple change in policy that insisted (documented) that a person use only their legal name when posting a review would be a solution. Transparency in identification is often a great encouragement to be honest and forthright.

Hi,
I might be an 'indie' but I'm 100% with the comments on here about editing/proof reading etc. Indie or mainstream a manuscript has to be edited as well as proof read if it deserves to be taken seriously and be called a book!
As for paying for a reveiw, yeah-right!! the only reveiws which mean anything at all are those written by a paying customer, ultimately they are the people who matter.
If anyone doesn't like any of my books, that's fine, we can't all like the same thing. It is important though that they say why they did or didn't like something.
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer]

Elizabeth wrote: "Hi Larry;

I agree with you in regard to paying anyone to review a book, professionally this is not the way to go. In fact, a long time ago, it would have been called a type of "payola."

The '..."

Elizabeth, believe me, I'm also a professional writer who runs out of time (daily) but I suspect that's why we writers get targeted. We are solitary in our creative process. Thus we're not well organized. No real union to fight for us.
I must disagree with expecting review sites to police themselves. The old saying about "When hell freezes over" comes to mind. We must remember review sites are NOT the writer's friend. They are seeking readers in order to generate favorable data to enhance advertising sales. Writers are merely a commodity to them, as we are to bookstores. A necessary evil, if you will. Writers need to become more proactive and find the time if we are to thrive.
That's my take for whatever it's worth.

Cheri, that was a great list of posts, thank you for sharing. Wisdom comes from experience and the open-mindedness to learn, and every day there is something new to absorb. Thank you! :)

You're welcome, Collette! :D

Please, don't waste our time with junk like this. It doesn't appear relevant to anything discussed here.

My comment stands.

Larry wrote: I've been in the writing biz for 45 years and I just don't understand why anyone would want or do a review based just on a "sample."

This one I can answer. I reviewed one book on Amazon based on the sample. It was blindingly bad, riddled with grammatical errors and the characters had no internal logic. The writing was junior-high fan fiction quality.

I made sure the review made it clear that I just read the first bit. I commented on what I loathed about the first part. (This wasn't a tiny sample, about 25 pages.) If an author was going to publish crap like that in the first bit of the story, then the rest of it wasn't going to magically get any better.

The other reviews (three of them) were all five stars, oohing and aahing over how fantastic the book was. That's why I read the sample. After having done so, I felt like it was my duty to make sure no one bought that thing without reading the sample first. If it still worked for you, have at it, but I doubt anyone not related to the author felt like this story was worth the time after reading the sample.

Keryl,
Believe me when I say that I know where you're coming from. However, I'm unclear on one point. Is the sample of the finished work or a work in progress?