The Sword and Laser discussion

does anybody really believe that GRRM can finish this Story in just 2 more Books? I think he needs at least 4…

with 1,000 words plus, yeah, he can do it

At his current pace I agree that it seems unlikely that the series will end in 2 books.

DWD was a pretty slow book in terms of moving the plot and having characters plans move forward. None of the major characters are significant closer to ruling the 7 kingdoms. Several are in trouble but GRRM left their fate ambiguous.

Robert Jordan used to say the same thing. Then a book would have to be cut in half to avoid being 1500 pages ... any of this sound familiar?

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The way GRRM likes to kill off characters you were certain would make it to the end. He could finish in 2 books. I am still shocked that it appears he killed John the end of ADWD. Although it doesn't say he is definitely dead. I think the wounds will be superficial and someone will come save him. Look at Lady Stark. She had her throat cut and I think thrown in a ditch, and she is alive. GRRM will have to step up the plot a bit though, the story progression in ADWD didn't go to far.
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Just remember that ADWD only moved the plot forward in the final 1/3 of the book because the rest was telling the story of everyone that wasn't in a Fest of Crows. So there wasn't going to be much plot movement.

If he keeps his current pace, there's NO WAY he can finish in 2 books. This book didn't end the story of Meereen either! And isn't Dany going to get to Asshai sooner or later? I have a hard time believing that George wouldn't want to explore every part of his world. And Asshai would be 1 book at least.

Martin's got a clear endpoint in Westeros, and when anybody actually does go somewhere, they move pretty quickly, so I think he can wrap things up in two.

It seems many of the characters are in a holding pattern, Dany especially, but once she decides to move things can progress rapidly (as with her first trip through Astapor and Mereen).

After all, look how much happened in the first two books.

Agreed with aldenoneil. (view spoiler)[ADwD seemed very much to be a setting of the stage for me. Now, with Mereen poised on war, and Dany coming into her identity again, the story in the East is on its way out the door. I would anticipate the next two books to move very quickly, with Book 6 bringing everyone back to Westeros, and Book 7 being the final battles. (hide spoiler)]

Fittentrim wrote: "If he keeps his current pace, there's NO WAY he can finish in 2 books. This book didn't end the story of Meereen either! And isn't Dany going to get to Asshai sooner or later? I have a hard time..."

I was at the SL event with GRRM, he asked about Asshai, etc. And said that he did not have any current plans to explore those parts of the world.

I think that there is no way he can contain himself to finish in two books.

aldenoneil wrote: "Martin's got a clear endpoint in Westeros, and when anybody actually does go somewhere, they move pretty quickly, so I think he can wrap things up in two. "

Yes GRRM can choose to move characters quickly, but this isn't always the case. Don't forget, after 1000 pages, Tyrion still didn't meet Dany, a moment I was dying for.

Can he finish the series in 2 books? Well...yes, but not if he continues at this rate of plot development (which I don't think he will.)

Great 12 more years for 2 books.

How old is GRRM?

The question I've been wondering about is what will be the endpoint. Will the books end with Dany (or whoever) becoming queen (or king) and joining Westeros? Or will it end with the coming of spring?
I really can't see 2 books to get Westeros together and defeat the Others.
Maybe I'm just not up on my GRRM news and he's answered this already.

I think I know how it's going to end. ;)
First option: The struggle for the Iron Throne continues till the end of the last book and on the last two pages The Others flood Westeros killing everybody.
Second option: The undead or never really dead Eddard Stark, John Arryn and Robert Baratheon will unite Westeros and use the Dragons to defeat The Others.
If not, there is always the limbo option.

unless this is going to be a reeaally short winter, i dont think we can get to spring in two books

That's why Book 7 is only a Dream of spring.

Didn't Martin once joke that the final book was going to be nothing but descriptions of the wind blowing across desolate, lifeless landscapes?

Keithatc wrote: "Didn't Martin once joke that the final book was going to be nothing but descriptions of the wind blowing across desolate, lifeless landscapes?"

Was that a joke?

Tina wrote: "Keithatc wrote: "Didn't Martin once joke that the final book was going to be nothing but descriptions of the wind blowing across desolate, lifeless landscapes?"

Was that a joke?"

Seriously? You don't know if that is a joke or not?

Martin's back on his old outline again. Which makes me think that yes, two more books and then it's over.

I think he can. I don't I can take 4 more books.

I'm going to agree with the folks who mentioned how quickly the plot can jump forward when GRRM chooses to make it happen. Also, I see the first few books as tying a knot that is pulled tighter as the plot progresses -- characters gain knowledge of each other, cross each other's paths, drop from narrator status to background presence, or die off. The characters that we still have are really developed and complex. If there wasn't the whole war-with-the-others thing to unfold, I would say he could wrap things up in just one book. Well, maybe a really big one . . .

After reading Dance with a Dragon i hope he finishes it in 2 books. The pace of this was was terrible and i was quite often frustated with the the lack of development. I just hope in the next book he kills off a bunch of characters so the story is more focused on letting something happen.

Keep in mind Winter does not need to be over for *this* story to be completed. As long as the war is settled with a new tush on the iron throne,westros is at peace and all the characters are complete with there particular arc of the story; we are complete. Also I would not expect it to end happily for everyone especially the "good guys" and I will not be surprised if we see more novels set in this world after ice and fire is wrapped up. Hell I could see Martin opening it up much like wild-cards!

I hope he can wrap it up in 2 books.

At the rate he has released the last couple, I'm worried that he or I mightn't be around for more than that.

I hear the final book is just a collection of recipes and a study of meals during medieval times

I like the Idea, that the Epilogue of the last Book plays at the Wall and in the last Scene there is a massive amount of Creatures beyond the Wall.

One of the problems of the story telling is that it took ages for characters in the Book to get from one place to another, or even not! Tyrion still didn´t met Dany. If he keeps that speed up at the end of the winds of winter dany is back of her "dragon vacation" and they still didn´t get there behinds to Westeros. I am a huge fan of slow multicharacter maelstrom of destruction and mayham, like with the books of malazan series, near perfectly executed by steven erikson, but with a dance with dragons i had to pull out a mirror and look if the story is still breathing.

I don't know if any of you have been following the TV series, but it has created some interesting areas of debates with regard to the writing of the books.

Not only about the length of time ASOIAF will take to be written vs. the speed that HBO's GOT is produced.. but also, as the series has .. edited .. some of the characters, or at least made certain traits more 'obvious' (this leads to so many other conversations) that GM may edit the characters subtly in the books. One in particular I read about was Osha. (A good interview)

Anyway, trying not to get sidetracked, I remember reading (have been looking for this but can't find it - will post when I do) that Martin has, in case of his death, informed the producers of the HBO series of his planned conclusion. Also, that he intends to finish the writing before the series has caught up with him (will believe it when I see it). And also, and this is the kicker, I definitely read somewhere his response to a question relating to the above that suggested that although he wishes to finish in 7 books, he is not contracted to do a number of books, but to write the story in the amount of books he feels is required. He stresses that at the moment this is 7. (Notice the italics)

Personally, I will be impressed, and relieved, if he finishes this in 2.. but won't be surprised if ASOIAF ends up being 8 books in total. I think 9 is too many.

Also, considering his criticisms of (TV show) Lost's ending.. I hope, really, really hope he gets the ending right.