Goodreads Ireland discussion

This is the discussion for The Brothers' Lot by Kevin Holohan. I hope you all thoroughly enjoy this book.

I am in the middle of The Brothers’ Lot. It is a very powerful book. I highly recommend it. There is lots of black humor as well as sadness. I am leaving a link to an excellent review.This link should contain the complete text of the review.

http://thebrotherslot.wordpress.com/

I'm still reading the monthly read, but I nominated this fir the QIR. I have high hopes for it. I'm glad to hear that you rate it so highly.

I just finished reading the book and read it in two days. That should tell you how captivated I was. Check out this excellent review:
http://thebrotherslot.wordpress.com/
The book was full of sadness, anger and black humor. There was even a bit of compassion for the abusive, deranged brothers. The brothers were that way for a reason. Most had been through a similar experience themselves. This experience warped them. They would not have been able to act out their experiences if the hierarchy of the Church had put a stop to it. etc etc. It is all very sad especially the experience of the young people. The impact just doesn't stop. I also think of the good and sane priests, brothers and nuns who are now somehow tainted.

I'll be starting it later today. I have to say, you've really whetted my appetite for this book.

Laura wrote: "I just finished reading the book and read it in two days. That should tell you how captivated I was. Check out this excellent review:
http://thebrotherslot.wordpress.com/
The book was full of sad..."

I finally got stuck into this today. I can see how you were captivated by it. The boys are very interesting and each of them seem familiar too me and so do the teachers. Their miens remind me of certain teachers I had growing up.

I kind of see what you mean about the brothers. I find them pathetic and pitiable, but I haven't felt any compassion for them just yet, but I'm only half way through. Maybe when Boland's arrival at the order is elaborated on I might feel differently. But I've loved it thus far.

I finished reading it on Friday. I really enjoyed this book. It reminded me so much of when I was at school, there were a lot of familiar faces among the characters; the pupils, brothers and lay teachers.

I particularly enjoyed the celebrations that were held for Saorseach O'Rahilly. While I was in primary school in the late eighties there were celebrations held for Edmund Ignatius Rice, (the real founder of the Christian Brothers). I still have no idea why the celebrations were held, and I no longer have enough curiosity to find out. We just showed up, shut up and said our prayers.

I still didn't feel much sympathy for the brothers by the end. Except maybe Br Boland. It's hard to justify that kind of behaviour however it's presented.

I agree. There is no justification but I always attempt to find what is behind something atrocious. Abuse tend to beget more abuse unless there is some kind of positive intervention and support. I'm lucky in that I got the good side of Catholic education and didn't experience anything like the Christian brothers. I don't know if it was my imagination or what but I think there was a hint of a book to come involving the nuns.

I think he enjoyed writing about the Convent orders, (view spoiler)[but I don't think there'll be another novel. By the end of the novel he had pretty much destroyed the Catholic institutions of Ireland (hide spoiler)]. For me he didn't leave himself the option of writing a sequel.

This book hooked me quickly as well. I loved the dark humor. Sometimes I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. terrific read!

I enjoyed it from start to finish. There were so many things that I liked about it. I especially liked the reaction of Finbar's father to the tally sticks. It was the actions of the previous generation who had grown up in the oppressive schooling of the CC. Kevin Holohan captured so any important aspects of the era.

I really enjoyed the dark humour,too. The boys' additions to the brothers' custard really tickled me.

Just had this book arrive for me, looking forward to the read!

I really enjoyed it.It's great satire. Very funny with dirty fingernails.

Just started this, and i am in stitches already, it reminds me of my convent days, but maybe a little more swearing.....

It could have been my class in Francis Street CBS.

A great read, funny, accurate, and probably cathartic for those who suffered in lower school at the hands of nuns or "Fr"s. It made me recall being in a state spelling competition ( USA ) as a child and some children who had Sisters (nuns) practically beating them on the spot if they'd missed a word.

Though this novel does seem to be on the waning end of a literary trend to denounce the Church as if it had done nothing right for centuries... Hmmm.

Well, I certainly like denouncing the church. Especially the CC. It's to feel any sympathy for an ultra-rich organization that that goes to the poorest countries in Africa and Asia and demonise birth control when there is a massive HIV epidemic. When I was growing up gays and single mothers where vilified and damned to hell. Anti-semitism was was fuelled and Jews had to live on the fringe of European society.

I have very mixed memories about the CC. Most of the Priests, nuns and brothers that I met as a child were good people who joined out of a desire to do real good in the world. I did come across the occasional masochist who loved the power that the collar or habit bestowed upon them, and later I heard stories of pederasty. Thankfully the were very rare. So the public face of the church that I remember was very pleasant and warm. The handling of the various sex scandals were handle abhorrently.

I hope you don't take this personally, J.S. but this is a sore point for me. I've been holding this in since we read the book and your message just gave me the opportunity to vent.

I feel so strongly about this that I'd gladly give up the renaissance and it's religious masterpieces for the disappearance of the Vatican.

@ Declan, Not a'tall. Vent away!

In terms of either the literature or real life in 21st century Ireland, now that the CC has been deposed what entity is there to replace the unholy trinity of : priest, schoolmaster, doctor, to control the village hearts and minds? Who will be the new shamans -- The local TD? The banksters? I read a fair amount of sociology while living there; no one seemed to have an answer for how to fill the vacuum in a meaningful way.

( Having fake druids do fake rituals at Tara a few times a year doesn't seem to do the job. )

I often think about that question related to the States. I feel there is a vacuum of sorts and that the values that have influenced us in recent years are not OK with me. I don't know what the answer is -certainly not the mega churches so common here or the value of greed and materialism. I was brought up Catholic and it was a good vehicle for teaching positive altruist values. On the other hand I became disenfranchised/disillusioned a long time ago. So it is a good question -who/what influences us now.

The roll of religion has changed over the years, as people challenge its dogma. If Christian-Judeo followers (or secular people those heritages) were to follow the bible literally they wouldn't eat pork or shellfish, get tattooed, have premarital sex, would believe the moon was a light in the sky and stone adulterers to death. Some Islamic countries still hold to most of the these Abrahamic laws but I believe that all of that will change as education increases.

People will begin to take responsibility for their own actions and claim domain over their own hearts minds. The greatest realization that people will make is that religion does not equal morality.

Declan, I knew I liked you before I read that tirade ;-) As a Jew, of course, I have no words of defense for what the Irish Catholic Church or the Roman Catholic Church has done but I do want to point out -- from the perspective of an outsider who has been a deliberate and specific target of the two entities -- that they are not exactly the same Evil Incarnate. They are, however, both what I call "Church as Institution," which ironically, if you actually read the message of the Christian Bible, The New Testament, is precisely what Jesus (a Jew at the time according to the Christian Bible) preached AGAINST to his fellow Jews (again, acording to the Christian Bible) Jews don't believe the concept of Jesus presented in the Christian Bible actually existed. Some of us (not all) believe someone who was very learned and charismatic may have existed and preached along the lines depicted in the Christian Bible but there's no way, no how, to reconcile that possible man/prophet with the Jewish concept of our One G*d. The trinity concept of Christianity is direct contradiction to the Jewish concept of monotheism....and the two shall never see eye to eye.

Oh and Declan, you probably meant sadist, not masochist, since masochists are the ones who enjoy RECEIVING (not giving) pain and torment.

One correction also to your second remark, the Jewish Bible does not call the moon a "light in the sky"; I think you're confusing the statement of separating light from dark, heaven from earth, which if read in the Hebrew without a thousand Latin (Roman) to Greek to Middle English to various other English translations contorting and reinterpreting it actually says heavens (plural) and soil (not Earth the planet but earthen the dirt) Hebrew is a language of subtle nuances and if you "interpret" it freely you canmake it say just about anything without even having to change the words...which of course is what Christians (and esp. The Church(es)) did over the years, as it suited their needs politically.

I don't recall, Declan, did you read my Jewish Inspirational or just follow me b/c u liked my attitude and snarky remarks? :) I think you'd really enjoy the faith walk--Dicky struggles/battles against it every last step of the way. I'm a secular person. I don't leap into faith easily...but I do eventually leap (as does Dicky...a little leap) Dicky's Story, I'm told by readers who know me, is more of a journey of self-discovery. I have one friend who's read it and never reads anything but murder mysteries. He's read Dicky's Story something like eight times. He keeps forgetting he's already read it and reads it again and each time, it speaks to something different in him that is "seeking." I think that's the best wayto describe it rather than calling it a faith walk, but saying it's a book that speaks to those who are seeking answers sounds weird (grin) Plus it's a Romantic Comedy so that kind of moves it further from "self-help" unless you call making a joke out of love helping oneself *hee hee*

@SarahTWgW

I actually did mean sadist in that previous post, when I vent I can lose the plot a little. I'm surprised that it's intelligible. Although we do have a few masochists that can whip their own backs like champs. You might have read about Matt Talbot, who became famous after his death when the extent his corporal mortification became known.

I stand by the light remark, though.

Genesis 1:16 "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night." That translation is widely accepted and I've never heard it corrected. It makes no distinction between the two.

Isaiah 13:10: "[T]he sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine." Suggesting the moon has its own.

BTW, can you PM me a link to Dicky's story. I'll be travelling at the weekend and I'd appreciate the reading matter.

Declan wrote: [...]BTW, can you PM me a link to Dicky's story. I'll be travelling at the weekend and I'd appreciate the reading matter.

Will do! And if you'll agree to do a review for me :) I'll even give you a coupon code to get it free. I seriously cannot believe you missed the free giveaway. It went on for 3-1/2 weeks!

I've been busy with college. I barely touched a book that that wasn't purely academic. I miss my fiction.

.....and if you want a review, you've got it.

You've got mail, and I want an honest review. The book is what it is--a Jewish Inspirational / Romantic Comedy--it is not a Christian Inspirational nor is it an action/adventure story and it is definitely not any kind of mystery :-) He not only "finds G*d" in the end, he also get the girl. See? no mystery. LOL I've never had anyone complain about its transparency but you never know. I got my first "bad" rating (3 stars) by someone who likes Christian Inspirational and Christian Thrillers and they really didn't like this book. Since they didn't review it I cannot say if it was the Jewishness or the fact it's definitely a romance novel that made them rate it a 3 but looking at the other books they enjoy (and the fact they are from the Amazon UK group) I'd guess it was the romance novel aspect and my American English.

Warning, Declan, Coming Home (Dicky's Story) is a fun read but it's a LONG book. Once you get into it, you won't want to put it down, but if you're busy with college studies, it could prove to be dangerous to your academic standing ;-) Then again, I've had more than one reader fly through it in 3 days. It's an easy read, just a lot of it.

-sry

Thank you very much, Sarah. :)

you're very welcome, Declan!