Fantasy Book Club discussion

Has this ever happened to you? You’re enjoying a fantasy book on public transportation, or in a waiting room, or a library, and someone interrupts to ask what you’re reading. Then they elevate their nose ten degrees and reply that they only read nonfiction, or books that are “real.”

What can we say to those people? We know the value of fantasy, the wonder it creates in us, but what words can we use to relate to those with little experience in that sort of imaginative play?

I usually ignore them depending on how rude they are & how good the book is. I've heard it all too often & found they're not worth talking to, for the most part. All fiction & a fair amount of 'fact' is fantasy, after all. It's just degrees & elements of the fantastic. Small minds need to take smaller steps.

In the rare cases they might be worth talking to (or they're family & you have no choice), I'll point out some classics that are fantasy; the Iliad, LOTR, Narnia & Frankenstein. The last two are particularly easy ways to point out how the human condition is examined through fantastic elements. I might find out their preferred type of fiction & point out similarities between it & my brand of fantasy novel, while making a case for my fantasy being more entertaining - the difference between riding a roller coaster & a Ferris wheel.

Sometimes, as a last resort, I'll point out fantastic elements in the Bible, compare many of them to fantasy books, & generally mock their religion, whatever it is. ( No, I don't consider their religion any more sacrosanct than my choice of reading material.) Some where along the line even the densest try to get away & leave me to my reading which is much more interesting than arguing with a closed mind.

Jim, I like your Ferris wheel comment about how fantasy is more entertaining. I like to say that a story without fantasy is like a holiday without fireworks.

In some cases, people refuse to read anything unless they can learn "facts" from it. In order to justify something to themselves, it must serve a purpose. I encourage people to treat themselves, to indulge in flights of fancy.

The true secret is, there is nothing more important than pointless activities. Dr. Brown researches play and found that when we deny ourselves it, “our mood darkens. We lose our sense of optimism and we become anhedonic, or incapable of feeling sustained pleasure.” I discuss the playfulness of fantasy at greater lengths here.

Can't say I've really had that happen, but my grandmother is that way. She prefers general fictional or non-fictional books. She used to criticize me for reading fantasy all the time. She believed I read this genre to keep from facing reality. I guess she thought of it as childish. It used to annoy me, but I think that's often expected of older generations. She doesn't bug me about it anymore and I've expanded my genre reading since then. Also when she was recommended a book in the fantasy/sci-fi vein, or she happened to read a book in that genre and didn't like it, she usually hands it over to me.

The problem I have with general fiction books, is that they're often too fanciful. Generally, I like fact sprinkled into my fantasy but not fantasy mixed in with my fact.

Saying you don’t read fantasy is like buying a pack of colored pens then throwing them all away except for blue and black because they’re the most practical.

I moved this to 'General Fantasy Discussions', since it's specifically about fantasy.

All fiction "isn't real" by definition.

A hell of a lot of non-fiction isn't real either. :)

I think my response would be to pat them sympathetically on the hand and say: "I'm SO sorry for you."

I've been around people who don't read any genre of books and I must say they are some of the most closed minded, unimaginative, ignorant, and judgemental people I have ever met. Not all of them. I think reading anything helps you learn to see things from not just your own point of view.
I really don't know what makes fantasy so unique and attractive to me. I just know whenever I get into another genre I always come back. I think partly it's the freedom. In fantasy there are no rules and anything can and does happen.

A.E. wrote: "Has this ever happened to you? You’re enjoying a fantasy book on public transportation, or in a waiting room, or a library, and someone interrupts to ask what you’re reading. Then they elevate thei..."

I've had that happen to me lots of times. In fact I now really hate it when people ask what I'm reading. I hate having to explain that it's a fantasy book and then wait for that little condescending glint that comes into people's eyes. Or hey, maybe I'm being a little oversensitive. And sometimes I can be just as bad as them - I find myself a little contemptuous when I see people reading trashy romance!

I think I like Andrea's response best, "I'm SO sorry for you." That pretty much says it all. It ticks me off enough that comparing their religion to fantasy still holds a lot of pleasure, though. Those who take offense are probably, as Traci said, the most closed-minded & judgmental.

Traci, I love your comment, "I think reading anything helps you learn to see things from not just your own point of view."

Fantasy involves introducing you to otherworldly cultures, with varied world views and values. In my opinion, this gives us perspective on our own world and often-arbitrary ideologies.

Also, regardless of the genre, stories are inner journeys that resonate with outer existence, making life more meaningful.

The SUVUDU newsletter addressed the difference between entertainment & art, general fiction snobs versus genre fiction, in this little write-up. It's short, just 6 paragraphs long. Makes some good points that seem to fit here.

http://www.suvudu.com/enewsletter/

I don't encounter this problem too often, perhaps because as a school librarian people just expect me to read all kinds of stuff. I do like to read a pretty wide variety of fiction and non-fiction. About the only thing I'm not fond of is traditional mysteries or crime stories. I have even enjoyed a few romance novels. Some are quite good. I am fairly new to fantasy. I encounter more problems with adults that are not associated with schools, since they cannot understand why I find pleasure reading kids' books. Usually I can make them understand somewhat by pointing out that within each genre or form of writing there are good books and bad. I like to say things like, "I never read any fantasy until recently. As a child I didn't understand it at all. But I was collecting fairy tales and somehow started reading this book Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell...it's got a bit of fairy tale and a bit of history in it...." Or, if they are non-fiction snobs, I like to point out that that somehow I made a connection between Siddartha, a non-fiction book called Living with the Devil, and Harry Potter's Dumbledore. By then, I have usually convinced them that they can't outtalk me in books. Additionally, I will sometimes admit that some of the books I read are purely for fun. Not everything has to have world-changing meaning. Unless these are people who never watch any form of television, they cannot pretend they do not enjoy "entertainment."

I would not try to justify fantasy, I would be more likely to use the approach that not everyone can understand fantasy. :)

Jim wrote: "Sometimes, as a last resort, I'll point out fantastic elements in the Bible, compare many of them to fantasy books, & generally mock their religion, whatever it is. ( No, I don't consider their religion any more sacrosanct than my choice of reading material.)"

I have GOT to remember this next time someone gets on my case. Yeah Jesus fed a ton of people with five loaves and two fish, but Kvothe summoned the wind, the Ainur *sang* the world into existence and don't even get me started about the sacrifices Bruce Wayne has made for Gotham City.

Chelsea wrote: "I have GOT to remember this next time someone gets on my case. Yeah Jesus fed a ton of people with five loaves and two fish, but Kvothe summoned the wind, the Ainur *sang* the world into existence and don't even get me started about the sacrifices Bruce Wayne has made for Gotham City. "

LOL

I guess water into wine and conquering the grave just don't cut it in Fantasy Land. :)

I believe you will find the "Cruciatus Curse" a very effective means of sending them in another direction.

On another note - never mock religion to believers.

No good will ever come from that....

Here's how I've handled this issue in the past...

Said to the haughty-nosed inquisitor in a polite tone:
Don't think of fantasy as fairies and elves prancing about in a world that couldn't possibly exist. Think of fantasy as a literary tradition in which we can explore issues of race, politics, religion, family, duty and honor, etc., in such a way that the reader can think about these important issues without having their personal history, upbringing and prejudices getting in the way of their empathy and understanding. It can be a very enlightening experience.

To each their own. I can understand that fantasy isn't everyone's cup of tea. Thank the gods that we are not all similar, with similar taste.

I ignored such reactions, although I haven't encountered them often. Last thing I would do is try to convince someone that fantasy is great. It's great to me, and that's enough.

I come across this problem all the time. I get it because I make my living as a fantasy and sci-fi writer. People look at me like I am not a real writer. I use to get embarrassed when people asked me what type of genre I write. I would get so exited when someone said they loved fantasy, after I told them. Art this point I realize I don't need to prove anything to anyone. They don't have to understand, they are just missing out and thats ok. That is why there are wonderful groups like this!

So sorry to hear that, Elle. I also write in fantasy, both epic and YA Urban, and I've yet to meet anyone that snubbed me for it. Maybe I'm just lucky so far.

It doesn't take much imagination to read a book about an unsolved murder or an unrequited love, but it takes a forest of imagination to read the magic bursting out of the pages of a fantasy novel. It's not hard to visualise a crying widow or a building bombed, we see these sort of things in television shows all the time. It takes a large imagination to be able to visualise a creature whose veins glow with the liquid diamond blood that courses through its body, or a planet where the trees grow green fire instead of leaves.

So, when people ask me why I read fantasy, I just tell them that I'm feeding my imagination because I don't want it to die.

One of the cool things about fantasy is that often it can explore parts of the world by changing just one little thing & cascade that into huge ramifications. Sometimes it's fairly prosaic, like the South won the battle of Gettysburg in the Civil War. Other times it's further out, like in Brain Wave (OK, that's SF, a subset of fantasy?) where the Earth moves out of a galactic field & suddenly almost everyone is twice as smart. What happens to our civilizations & how people react is really, really interesting. It makes me question a lot of 'truths' & look at everything differently. That can be a really good thing.

Thanks for making a great point, Jefferson. I feel the fantasy genre is better equipped to present difficult issues of morality by detaching them from this world and the biases attached to it.

Eden also brought up how reading fantasy flexes your creative muscle. I would like to think that there is not only a correlation between fantasy books and high creativity but also a causation.

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination." - Albert Einstein

As a writer of fantasy, I've got used to the raised eyebrows when the non-cognoscenti think you write THAT sort of fantasy! And I have also got used to readers who don't read fantasy and think it second rate literature and so I just don't engage on the principle at all. It's easier that way.

There are a million arguments about the strength of fantasy and its position as the oldest form of literature (especially in Ann Swinfen's In Defence of Fantasy) but I'd prefer to continue to just read, write and enjoy than have to labour people's heads with my view. It aint worth it, is it!

Yeah. If you actually write sci-fi/fantasy then you can get a lot of strange looks as well. lol. "oh. I see." and a change of subject. All fiction is fantasy to a degree, lol.

Æ wrote: "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination." - Albert Einstein

What I presume are the next lines from this quote -"Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." are what I use as the 'subheading' on my website. Fantasy can subtly make people look at so many aspects of our world without blatantly having to name them. Where people might see it as 'preaching' in any other sort of novel, the world's problems can be woven into a fantasy world and not noticed until the reader starts to really think about it. By taking them out of their own world, the fantasy writer can make readers see it in a different way.

So true. With fantasy you can show people reality without even trying :)