Terminalcoffee discussion

Authors, critics, and editors on "great books" that aren't all that great.

http://www.slate.com/id/2301312/

Definitely worth reading.

Interesting. I like that the perspective is from authors. I have to admit that the only book on this list I've read all the way through is Ulysses. I want to read Gravity's Rainbow someday. However, I'll have to be in jail or something because I doubt my attention span will be able to do it.

I found this article as a link on yours. Interesting.
http://www.slate.com/id/2301512/

I can't believe that guy who thought The Alexandria Quartet was overrated after reading 2 pages. Possibly it is, but how does he know?

i often can ascertain things from a brief exposure. roma tomatos? overrated. silly band bracelets? overrated. using two r's back to back in a word? overated.

I don't believe that is so. I think it takes time to arrive at a decision like that.

Daniel Mendelsohn's put-down of Ulysses was quite interesting.

Overeaten.

Thomas Hardy is the father of modern novel. He was great! Who are these idiots?

Thomas Hardy is not. James Joyce, Ulysses, or maybe even DH Lawrence are.

Tess of the D'Urbervilles and Jude the Obscure are both mentioned in the book I'm currently reading Alone in the Classroom. I've read neither Hardy books. Tess is also mentioned in A Prayer for Owen Meany and I'm beginning to think it's required reading.

Kevin "El Liso Grande" wrote: "i often can ascertain things from a brief exposure. roma tomatos? overrated. silly band bracelets? overrated. using two r's back to back in a word? overated."

Roma tomatoes have fewer seeds and less liquid inside, so I'm going to have to disagree and say underrated. :p

Any one who has read my profile knows that I agree with most of that page.

I remember talking about this a long time ago, but I think the idea fits here...if you're reading something that's supposed to be great, but after maybe 25 pages it feels like work, you probably can put that fucker down and breathe a sigh of relief. Unless you're in an English class or something, in which case I suggest you go straight to Wikipedia.

God, I wish Wikipedia existed when I was in school.

::fails RA::

So true, RA. Wikipedia is like breast milk to today's students. Necessary for success, but embarrassing to admit using it.

RandomAnthony wrote: "I remember talking about this a long time ago, but I think the idea fits here...if you're reading something that's supposed to be great, but after maybe 25 pages it feels like work, you probably ca..."

I smell laziness. 25 pp?

I just finished a Scottish novel of 1826. There was a lot of Scots dialect in it, so much that the book had a glossary. Getting through the dialect was labor intensive. But there was also a lot of regular English, and the book was full of completely hilarious passages. I was really glad I stuck with it.

Sally-- Hardy came before J.J and D.H. He was the last of the Victorians and was the Bridge to the modern era. Tess was executed for killing her abusive husband who would no doubt have killed her. How modern is that?

Tess is overrated. It could have been truly excellent, had Hardy not decided that the ending was the most important part of the story. The events of the ending were pulled from the headlines, and they don't fit with the rest of the book, or Tess as a character. In my humble opinion, anyway.

Kenneth Two wrote: "Sally-- Hardy came before J.J and D.H. He was the last of the Victorians and was the Bridge to the modern era. Tess was executed for killing her abusive husband who would no doubt have killed her..."

Kenneth, you need to learn how to insert spoiler HTML into your posts. Click on "some html is ok" to learn spoiler formatting.

Lobstergirl wrote: "RandomAnthony wrote: "I remember talking about this a long time ago, but I think the idea fits here...if you're reading something that's supposed to be great, but after maybe 25 pages it feels like..."

How many pages should one read, then, before making this call?

Wait, I'll make that a separate thread. Hold on.

Thank you LG. I'll use it in the future. Did the Moby Dick discussion disappear?

Kenneth Two, no, that thread didn't disappear, but it's been bumped out of view because nobody's posted in there for a bit. Here it is: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/6...

Ethan Frome is overrated. It's well written and psychologically insightful but (view spoiler)[ running a sled into a tree is one of the stupidest ways to commit suicide I have ever heard of (hide spoiler)].

That does sound pretty stupid.

Something very similar worked for Sonny Bono.

The key difference is that his worked.

Amber, it may be the best literary suicide ever. What does he say, "We're gonna fetch it?!" Something like that. Damn, Amber, it's true love.

Amber wrote: "Ethan Frome is overrated. It's well written and psychologically insightful but [spoilers removed]."

I'm not sure why that would make it overrated. It adds to the theme of Ethan not getting his life right, (view spoiler)[failure (hide spoiler)]. I don't think the book is overrated. I re-read it this year and loved it, whereas in 9th grade I had only liked it.

I read it in high school, and again right after college. I like the writing and the sort of hopelessness Wharton captures (she's one of my favorite writers actually), but that one element always drove me crazy.

I saw the movie with Liam Neeson before reading the book. I remember watching Liam limping painfully through hip-high snow thinking, Jesus what happened to that poor guy? Ah, love is what happened. (view spoiler)[ Scuze me while I kiss a tree..... (hide spoiler)]

I read this book so long ago. Two things I remember are the sled scene and that the book was depressing. I think I'll give it another go, though, because I like Wharton. Didn't know about the movie and never would have pictured Neeson as Frome.

I've always thought Vonnegut was overrated.

Hmm. I might have to agree. I don't know that I would say Vonnegut is wildly overrated, but maybe mildly overrated.

I love Vonnegut, especially his short stories.

Lobstergirl wrote: "Hmm. I might have to agree. I don't know that I would say Vonnegut is wildly overrated, but maybe mildly overrated."

Wildly overrated. I read everything including The Sirens of Titan and Breakfast of Champions: A Novel which he promised would be his last book. I believed him and never read anything else he wrote.

Also I'm not crazy about John Irving and Tom Robbins or Richard Brautigan and Bukowski C. If you read one, you've read them all.

Cheri wrote: "Also I'm not crazy about John Irving and Tom Robbins or Richard Brautigan and Bukowski C. If you read one, you've read them all. "

I have never read any of these authors. Yeah. What little I know of them didn't make me want to know more, I guess.

John Irving wrote three or four books that I absolutely adored.
I hate questions of overrated. Mostly this is a way for people to say they are somehow smarter than other people for somehow seeing through something the others enjoyed. It's all subjective.

Cheri wrote: "Lobstergirl wrote: "Hmm. I might have to agree. I don't know that I would say Vonnegut is wildly overrated, but maybe mildly overrated."

Wildly overrated. I read everything including The Sirens ..."

I adore John Irving and Tom Robbins. Their early works are like candy to me. Can't stop reading and re-reading them in times of difficulty.

Sarah Pi wrote: "John Irving wrote three or four books that I absolutely adored.
I hate questions of overrated. Mostly this is a way for people to say they are somehow smarter than other people for somehow seeing ..."

So basically...declaring things overrated is overrated?;):)

The question of potential subjectivity is also highly subjective. Or, at least that's what I think.

I have either really liked or disliked the John Irving books I have read. Sometimes he hits it, others not so much. The same with Vonnegut.

Sarah Pi wrote: "John Irving wrote three or four books that I absolutely adored.
I hate questions of overrated. Mostly this is a way for people to say they are somehow smarter than other people for somehow seeing ..."

I thought it was just an opinion. Nothing more.

I was just feeling like there isn't really a way to comment in this thread without it sounded like an attack. Obviously, I commented, so I'm not against it or policing it or anything. I was just thinking about how by its nature this thread is kind of a chance to hate on things that other people really like. A thread called "authors I can't stand" implies that others might still like the person. "Overrated" implies that even though others like the person and value their writing highly, you thik their opinion is without merit.
Again, not policing. Just observing.

I've never thought just the term by itself was an attack on a person holding the opposite view. I think of it as something that is utterly subjective. I mean, it's not like anyone in this thread is Harold Bloom, issuing judgments from Mount Olympus. We're just readers with opinions. Nothing more, nothing less.

Right. And my opinion is that Jane Austen is overrated.

I hated Tess of the d'Ubervilles.