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Should authors review each other?
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Jim wrote: "I always make it crystal clear that all I ask for is an honest review. I do not ask that they only publish four or five star reviews."The problem here, Jim, is that *most* people have a problem being that candid in a review, no matter how often or how many different ways you tell them to be completely honest. Most don't get it that bad reviews are sometimes more helpful to sales than good ones.
What I failed to mention previously about my own experiment was that not one author served as my beta reader. So no, I wasn't responsible for helping to create the problem. All my readers who did offer reviews were just that: readers, so I did trust them since they had no ulterior motives.
Larry wrote: >Shawn, While many aspiring Goodreads authors don't realize it, "self-serving" is becoming the motto of EBooks. I somehow hope the voices of fellow pros will reverse that trend.
My five ebooks in the RAKER CHRONICLES series are "the digital version" of my hardback thriller TERMINAL POLICY...these somewhat-edited ebooks are for those who choose to read digitally, shorter, and at less cost each... seems to work for me...it's a legit form of authorship!
My five ebooks in the RAKER CHRONICLES series are "the digital version" of my hardback thriller TERMINAL POLICY...these somewhat-edited ebooks are for those who choose to read digitally, shorter, and at less cost each... seems to work for me...it's a legit form of authorship!
Liam wrote: "Larry wrote: >Shawn, While many aspiring Goodreads authors don't realize it, "self-serving" is becoming the motto of EBooks. I somehow hope the voices of fellow pros will reverse that trend. "I think you completely missed the point.
Hi Carla,Your point is well taken. Best selling author Michael Palmer tells me that he does not read or write reviews for the reasons you state. I gave him a five star rating and because we have a lot of things in common I sent him an autographed copy of my book and told him I just wanted him to enjoy it. I have only a couple of authors who have reviewed my book. The rest are just regular readers including one in the Amazon top 10 reviewers. Those reviews mean more than others. To me at least. I also have some good reviews from some established review sites including Kirkus. I keep trying, since publishing your book is not really enough.
Jim
Jim,Interesting twist on reviewing. Am I understanding this correctly, that for $10 a book you put authors together for reviews?
Elizabeth wrote: "Authors are people first. I have reviewed books on Amazon that I enjoyed, but did not put the tagline "Author of" at the end of the review. I don't feel right about it, but that's a personal decisi..."Agree.
Larry, chill out. I understand and respect your opinions. Please allow the rest of us to have our opinions too.
Larry wrote: "Jim,Interesting twist on reviewing. Am I understanding this correctly, that for $10 a book you put authors together for reviews?"
Larry,
Not me. The company Reviews 4 Reviews does that. It's Reviews4Reviews.com. This company just facilitates the meeting of two authors for the purpose of reviewing each other's books. What I do on a personal level is read someone's book and post a review on Amazon. Then, if possible, I contact the author to tell him/her how much I enjoyed the book. I include the link to my book trailer on YouTube adding that if they like the trailer and would be interested in reading and reviewing my book that I would be happy to mail them a signed copy. This is only a small part of my review campaign. Right now what I do is when I review a book on Amazon I look at the other reviews and pick out one that is listed as a top 500 or 100 Amazon reviewer whose review is very similar to my own. If possible, I contact the reviewer and compliment them on their review. Then I offer to send them my book for their reading enjoyment. I always tell them that they are under no obligation to review it, but I'd be honored if they would if their schedule permits.
Like I said, reviewing is an art. I look at a lot of reviews from apparently angry readers who say things like, "Don't waste your money! I only read 23 pages and threw the book in the trash." Personally, if I didn't read the book cover to cover I don't waste time reviewing it. I review for a couple of review websites and I do read those books cover-to-cover even if they are really bad. When I accept a book for review I consider it a contract between me and the author and as an author I would appreciate someone pointing out my mistakes. I write for my readers not myself. Nothing I write is carved in stone. But that's just me.
Jim
Sorry, must have misread your entry late at night. Liked your last paragraph. It shows the kind of professional attitude that's needed by authors.Best,
Jim wrote: "This is only a small part of my review campaign. Right now what I do is when I review a book on Amazon I look at the other reviews and pick out one that is listed as a top 500 or 100 Amazon reviewer whose review is very similar to my own. If possible, I contact the reviewer and compliment them on their review. Then I offer to send them my book for their reading enjoyment. I always tell them that they are under no obligation to review it, but I'd be honored if they would if their schedule permits."I don't know about anyone else, but if someone, anyone, contacted me in this manner for the explicit purpose of reviewing his book, I'd be enraged and he'd get nothing short of a blistering reply.
This is EXACTLY the manner in which those of us who reviewed Konrath's book were SPAMMED, and yes, it is spam. The ensuing e-mail carried benign, seemingly empathetic language in it, saying things like, "Because you liked his book, you'll love this one," but we were contacted without permission. Call it a campaign or even a religion, but contacting anyone without their permission to do so and then mentioning your book to ask something of them concerning it is spam. The entire reason Authonomy is tanking right now is because people can't seem to stop spamming everyone else with their pleas for a read. They don't give one cat's ass about whether you want them to contact you, they're just so hungry for the editor's desk and eventual sales that they do it relentlessly and it's turning a lot of ethical authors away. The site wasn't set up that way.
Just like I don't believe the publishing system was set up this way. This is EXACTLY what gets up my nose so much--people doing this very thing.
I'm sorry, Jim, it's nothing personal, but don't you ever consider the feelings of that person you're mercilessly spamming before you do it? What happened to expectation of privacy? When I post to Amazon (before I was an author), I had a right to expect that I would not be bombarded by writers hoping to gain a platform for themselves. I do NOT believe spamming people on public forums is the way to do this. What if one-hundred other authors were pulling the same stunt and contacting this person, too? Wouldn't YOU want to be left alone?
See what I mean? People are abusing the privilege. Your intentions may be honourable (you sound benign enough), but the fact is, it's an abuse of the system. You're taking full advantage of a freedom that's in place for monetary gain, and I disagree with it so much I'd need pie charts.
Carla,Sorry you feel that way. The replies to my queries have all been friendly. I offer a free copy of my book with no strings attached. Some post reviews and some do not. By and large people review books because they love to read. Every review on Amazon has a comment button where anyone who reads the review can comment. Also in the reviewer's profile many reviewers clearly state "in their own words" that they do not do unsolicited reviews. I don't bother these reviewers with a request to review my book. Although, Amazon and the First Amendment gives me permission to comment on the essence of the review. I have over 28 years of service in our Armed Forces and I have sworn--several times--an oath to defend the Constitution with my very life if called upon to do so. I meant every word of it. My brothers and sisters in arms are being killed and maimed all over this world in defense of the Constitution to give you the right to express your opinion in public--the operative word is public--forums.In as much as the First Amendment protects us both, we will just have to agree to disagree.
Jim
Jim wrote: "Carla,Sorry you feel that way. The replies to my queries have all been friendly. I offer a free copy of my book with no strings attached. Some post reviews and some do not. By and large people re..."
I think we just established above, with you fully agreeing, that there are no deals where strings aren't expected or attached, no matter how much you say so.
Don't you DARE boil this down to maimed limbs and the First Amendment, and THEN paint me as someone who is against it! How DARE YOU! That was a cheap, low blow and completely uncalled for. You have NO IDEA what my views on free speech or the military are, so you have NO RIGHT to judge that and then create a strawman argument out of it I could never win.
I don't care if you comment on reviews. If you'll lay your Howitzer to the side for a moment and brush up on your reading comprehension skills, you'll see I NEVER said anything about free speech, or comments, or killed soldiers. Don't you dare dump that shit into a discussion about BOOK REVIEWS and then not expect to be skewered for it. Congratulations: You've just taken the hard work the military does and all those dead soldiers, and cheapened them by equating them with book reviews.
I SAID, I don't agree with unsolicited contact. YOU, with your agenda, are a huge part of the problem and why Amazon is needing to put the drastic measures into place that it is. Because you can't curb your enthusiasm or greed long enough to THINK through what you're doing in a LOGICAL manner, Amazon and other sites are finding drastic measures to kill the privilege you're ABUSING, flat out. Murray, above, wanted us to deal with each instance as it arose.
Well, here ya go, Murray: Jim, I'd like you to meet Murray. Murray, have at it.
Carla, how dare you defame SPAM! It's a fine product when fried and topped with an egg over easy. :-)Let's call it what it really is, a con job, rather than spam. It's a sign of the growing lack of ethics in the aspiring author levels of publishing and those who would suck out any revenues the author might potentially enjoy. Welcome to the scam-a-minute era.
Jim, I'm not easily confused, but this round robin discussion has accomplished that. Please clarify. Are you in any way affiliated with Reviews4Reviews other than as a customer who paid $10 for a review?
Carla wrote: "Murray, above, wanted us to deal with each instance as it arose.Well, here ya go, Murray: Jim, I'd like you to meet Murray. Murray, have at it. "
lol. I've lost track of the thread so I'm not sure I can comment reliably, but I think I'd side with Carla on this one. I'm surprised that Amazon would let their customers contact one another. I thought that would go against their privacy policies and it's not a social networking site like Goodreads.
On the other hand, I'm not sure that Jim's actually done anything wrong. I don't fully understand the situation at Amazon and I haven't looked at their privacy policies recently, but I assume the channel is there. In that case, as a reviewer, I'd be happy being sent a free book with no real obligation to read or review it. I'd only get upset about 'spam' if I was getting 100 each week and then I'd probably delete my account.
Don't get me wrong - I hate spammers, but it only takes me a moment to delete the few that get through my filters.
Larry wrote: "Jim, I'm not easily confused, but this round robin discussion has accomplished that. Please clarify. Are you in any way affiliated with Reviews4Reviews other than as a customer who paid $10 for a..."Larry, did you read his disclaimer in the first message? He said very clearly that he was not affiliated. 'I just found this and I'm not a member.'
Carla wrote: "Jim wrote: "Carla,Sorry you feel that way. The replies to my queries have all been friendly. I offer a free copy of my book with no strings attached. Some post reviews and some do not. By and lar..."
So?
I guess I'm confused as to what SPAM is. I thought it was obtaining a mailing list, snail mail or e-mail and sending the same form letter to everyone on the list. You know, kind of like John Grisham's publisher is going to send 200 unsolicited copies of his next book and Madison Avenue produced media kit to the top book reviewers in the World starting with the New York Times Book Review. Oh, silly me, that's not SPAM, that's book promotion. Free enterprise, the backbone of the business world.Regarding Amazon reviews. I can't afford to send 200 unsolicited copies of my book to anyone. Thus I rely on the one-on-one networking approach. I do not have a template for this. Each query is drafted to fit the individual that I'm writing to. Below is a good example of an Amazon reviewer's personal profile.
E-mail: [email protected]
In My Own Words:
Question or comments on reviews? Please leave a note under the review and I'll respond as I have the opportunity.
Have a book you'd like me to review? I'm sorry but I'm unable to accept review requests for books as I still have a good stack of my own that I keep buying that I need to get to!
Notice that the reviewer posts his e-mail address. However, while I might leave a comment under the review, I'd never misuse his e-mail address. I only pick reviewers who list their e-mail address and clearly state in their personal profile that they are looking for new books in the suspense/thriller category. I send a personal note to these individuals describing my book and stating that if they are interested I will send them a copy if they provide their snail mail address. If they provide their mailing address,how is this SPAM?
Jim, it's not. Like a lot of stuff floating around Goodreads, it's initially someone's incorrect perception that's repeated over and over until people start believing it must be true. To be completely acccurate, calling internet activity "Spam" is erroneous. SPAM is a trademarked, manufactured word for a canned meat product introduced by Hormel in 1937. Soldiers learned to hate it after being served meal after meal. However, fried with a couple of eggs, mmm.
Carla wrote: "Jim wrote: "Carla,Sorry you feel that way. The replies to my queries have all been friendly. I offer a free copy of my book with no strings attached. Some post reviews and some do not. By and lar..."
Jim,
None of us agree all the time, but as ex-Army from the Vietnam Era, I also take exception to setting up a frivolous argument. I too took oaths to defend the Constitution, all of it, both in the service and as a sheriff's deputy. Sorry, but I'm with Carla on this point. It was a cheap shot.
Larry wrote: "Jim, it's not. Like a lot of stuff floating around Goodreads, it's initially someone's incorrect perception that's repeated over and over until people start believing it must be true."Not entirely true, Larry. Yes, the original definition of spam originated from the old listservs like Prodigy and Compuserve, but like all other words in the English language, their meaning adjusts, morphs and changes over time. Just check the noun definition on Dictionary.com. I've bolded the relevant portion germane to this conversation:
noun
2.
( lowercase ) disruptive messages, especially commercial messages posted on a computer network or sent as e-mail.
It doesn't matter that the original e-mails begging reviews were sent to a list obtained by paying for it, or one-by-one on a public message board. They're DISRUPTIVE, and thus by definition, still spam. Doesn't ANYONE read a freakin' dictionary anymore??
Carla, sorry, but such morphing takes place primarily when a trademark holder doesn't do enough to enforce their trademark. I've previously been involved in trademark enforcement when I worked in food PR. A prime example of maintaining their trademark is the Roquefort cheese industry from Southern France. Not sure if they still need to, but back in the 1960s and 70s, anyone who used an inferior blue cheese and called it Roquefort received an attorney letter. Repeated violation resulted in lawsuits. Today, I doubt anyone still tries to pirate the word.
Larry wrote: "Carla, sorry, but such morphing takes place primarily when a trademark holder doesn't do enough to enforce their trademark. I've previously been involved in trademark enforcement when I worked in ..."Don't tell me, I didn't write the dictionary, nor did I dictate the rules of etymology for the English language.
From Dictionary.com for Etymology:
the derivation of a word. Synonyms: word origin, word source, derivation, origin.
2.
a chronological account of the birth and development of a particular word or element of a word, often delineating its spread from one language to another and its evolving changes in form and meaning. Synonyms: word history, word lore, historical development.
3.
the study of historical linguistic change, especially as manifested in individual words.
Not one thing mentioned about a TRADEMARK.
You completely missed the point. *sigh*
Okay, I don't really think this thread is serving much of a purpose, beyond providing a place to argue. As such, I'm going to close it. If you have a feeling about the original topic and didn't get to express it here, feel free to start a new thread. But please keep the tone civil and refrain from getting into off-topic arguments. Thanks.
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Getting back on point. Are reviews helpful. A lot of evidence seems to say that they are very helpful, especially on Amazon. I've reviewed the work of other authors who have likewise reviewed mine. I always make it crystal clear that all I ask for is an honest review. I do not ask that they only publish four or five star reviews. Even Dan Brown's books have their share of one star reviews. Writing a good book review is an art, the learning of which is ongoing. At least it is for me. I do sign my reviews as author. I want the person making his/her decision--at least partly--to buy a particular book after reading my review to know that the review was thoughtful, erudite, and written by someone who understands the writer's craft which I am passionate about. So if that makes me a bad person--shoot me. I take my review writing very seriously, I spend a lot of time on them, and my time is valuable. In the end we are left with a quote attributed to Abraham Lincoln, "You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." Honest Abe's quote may then be adapted to our question of authors reviewing other authors as, You can get some authors to agree all of the time and you can get all authors to agree some of the time, but you'll never get all authors to agree all of the time on a question of this complexity.
Jim Gilliam, Author