Discovering Russian Literature discussion

Ok you know the drill. Use this thread is for all the discussions, questions etc. New readers: there will be spoilers in this thread.

If you're reading for the first time or need to go through the text again, for more sites please check the following link.

http://etext.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/...

actually I've found that site on the web, it was where I read the book. loved it. have you read it yet?

I just finished reading it. I really needed to share this pic because it reminded me of the little boy in the story.

We should've read it in December. It's a tale of Christmas, peace, love and redemption. I don't feel it is a social criticism or anything of that sort. Reminded me of The Little Match Girl by Hans Christian AndersenHans Christian Andersen's The Little Match Girl . It's good to have a such tale like this after a more serious story like "The Death of Ivan Ilych." What's the famine mentioned here? Was there really a famine during this time?

Wow, what a story!

Shanez, Russian routinely experienced famines, as most purely agricultural societies did from time to time.

Dostoevsky writes with moral intent - he means to teach through his work. I agree that the work is about peace, love, and redemption, but it is also a strong critique of society at the time.

How could a family enjoying their Christmas celebration not open their doors (and their hearts) to this little boy? A policeman averts his eyes? Another boy steals his cap, and nothing happens. Dostoevsky is calling on us to open our hearts to the suffering of those less fortunate.

Only in heaven will people like this nameless boy find a joyful life without suffering, reunited with their parents. Tolstoy's stories are often preceeded by a Bible verse, and I feel that Matthew 25:40 ('I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.') would be appropriate here.

I am interested in what others think - thank you for the great suggestion!

Shanez wrote: "We should've read it in December. It's a tale of Christmas, peace, love and redemption. I don't feel it is a social criticism or anything of that sort. Reminded me of The Little Match Girl by Hans ..."

I thought the same on The Little Match girl.

I read this story in a matter of minutes, and went through so many different emotions! I was so upset for the little orphan at the beginning when he had to strike out for himself, yet I felt his joy when he looked in the store windows. It was a heartbreaking ending, but so full of joy at the same time. Great pick!

Bradley wrote: "Wow, what a story!

Shanez, Russian routinely experienced famines, as most purely agricultural societies did from time to time.

Dostoevsky writes with moral intent - he means to teach through ..."
you just put into words what i was thinking inside my head thank you!!!

Thanks for the pic Shanez! Who's the artist? I also thought of The Little Match girl.

Bradley wrote: "I agree that the work is about peace, love, and redemption, but it is also a strong critique of society at the time. ..."

I knew it had to be something like a social critique. It's like reading poems of William Blake's "Songs Of Innocence". Reminded me of the poem "The Chimney Sweeper" the child there is like here is still not exposed to the experiences of the world so the thoughts are still innocent. Then the image of Jesus / The Lamb of God. ( but I'm not sure if the Orthodox Church use the same symbols???) Blake emphasizes that Christ had qualities of innocence and mildness such as a child or a lamb possesses.

I don't know if this is correct but I think the Christmas tree of Jesus is a symbol for Crucifixion? not only of Jesus but the crucifixion of all the innocents like the little boy?


*****************************************

The Chimney Sweeper by William Blake

When my mother died I was very young,
And my father sold me while yet my tongue,
Could scarcely cry weep weep weep weep,
So your chimneys I sweep & in soot I sleep.

Theres little Tom Dacre, who cried when his head
That curled like a lambs back was shav'd, so I said.
Hush Tom never mind it, for when your head's bare,
You know that the soot cannot spoil your white hair

And so he was quiet. & that very night.
As Tom was a sleeping he had such a sight
That thousands of sweepers Dick, Joe, Ned, & Jack
Were all of them lock'd up in coffins of black,

And by came an Angel who had a bright key
And he open'd the coffins & set them all free.
Then down a green plain leaping laughing they run
And wash in a river and shine in the Sun.

Then naked & white, all their bags left behind.
They rise upon clouds, and sport in the wind.
And the Angel told Tom, if he'd be a good boy,
He'd have God for his father & never want joy.

And so Tom awoke and we rose in the dark
And got with our bags & our brushes to work.
Tho' the morning was cold, Tom was happy & warm
So if all do their duty, they need not fear harm.

Amalie wrote: "Thanks for the pic Shanez! Who's the artist? I also thought of The Little Match girl.

Thank you for the idea of innocence. I hadn't noticed it before, but you are certainly right! The boy doesn't think to steal anything, he just wants to look at the dolls, to have something to eat.

The poem speaks to the same problem, and unfortunatly reaches the same conclusion - rewards will come in an afterlife.

I didn't get the sense of the tree being a symbol of crucifixtion, more that it was symbol of plenty for orphans who never experienced plenty before.

Does anyone else think Dostoevsky was harsh in judging the other parents of orphans as "sinful"?

Bradley wrote: "Amalie wrote: "I didn't get the sense of the tree being a symbol of crucifixtion, more that it was symbol of plenty for orphans who never experienced plenty before.
..."

I guess it depends on whether we read the end happy or sad. If the 'death' here is sad then the tree like in the Christmas song, "12 days of Christmas" "a partridge in a pear tree" is a symbol of Jesus and his sacrifice, I'm thinking may be Amalie is reading the tree here like that?? well then yes, perhaps it, is a symbol of being crucified/suffering, but I don't know if the end emphasizes that.

Your idea of symbol of plenty for the poor fits better with the end because they are happy forever. Both are interesting ideas.

Is this the same story as "Poor People," published by Hesperus Press? Just a different translation? Hard to tell from comments here so far ...
The plot blurb in Hesperus edition describes it as story of petty clerk who, in his obsessive love for young girl, pushes himself into poverty by trying to buy her happiness.
Haven't had a chance to read it yet, and might not make the deadline, but wanted to check first.

No, "Poor People" is a different story - longer, and probably somewhat better known. There is a link to an online version of the "Little Orphan" posted above. It should only take half an hour to read!

Shanez wrote: "Bradley wrote: "Amalie wrote: "I didn't get the sense of the tree being a symbol of crucifixtion, more that it was symbol of plenty for orphans who never experienced plenty before.
..."

I guess i..."

Yes, you are I guess I was reading too much into symbols. It doesn't connect. Thanks for pointing it out. Good discussion for a shorter short story.

For those who are interested, here's Blake's companion piece for the "The Chimney Sweeper" from the Songs of Experience. Here, apparently the adult speaker encounters a child chimney sweeper abandoned in the snow while his parents are at church or possibly even suffered death where church is referring to being with God.

The Chimney Sweeper (SONGS OF EXPERIENCE)

A little black thing in the snow,
Crying "weep! weep!" in notes of woe!
"Where are thy father and mother? Say!"--
"They are both gone up to the church to pray.

"Because I was happy upon the heath,
And smiled among the winter's snow,
They clothed me in the clothes of death,
And taught me to sing the notes of woe.

"And because I am happy and dance and sing,
They think they have done me no injury,
And are gone to praise God and his priest and king,
Who make up a heaven of our misery."

Ah, good to know, thanks, Bradley.

well when I read the book Ive found it amazing yet sad. it touches you; and honestly I think its a critic to society, of that time and sadly even though all this time have passed by and this same thing still happens, there are hundreds of children who dies because of this. I think what I loved the most about him it was the fact that he lived in a completely different time of all of us, a different country but he was able to touch me, i mean his words because he wrote about universal things, things that happens anywhere and everywhere. universal things. something that caught my attention of all these comments was that rewards will come in after life. I totally agree.