Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

FELLOW AUTHORS!! There has been a new author community started for those who have their books available on amazon.com! This group is for authors to tag each others books on amazon & increase visibility!! Here is the link: http://www.facebook.com/groups/279571...

Thanks, John.

MG Wells
Light Masters: Number 13

Thanks for the info John, will definitely join! Love to help fellow authors and myself as well :)

Thanks! Me too, probably!

Authors tag their own books as to applicable reading interests. The only advantage to multiple taggings is to bite the hand of the very bookseller that's advancing the cause of EBooks, while also circumventing the bookseller's online marketing systems.

In addition, such tactics are an attempt to "rig" search results in favor of a particular author. I feel that's improper on (at least) two counts. First, despite the vernacular used on social websites, authors aren't automatically "friends." We're competing for the limited discretionary spending of readers. Writing is a business rather than just a recreational activity. Why would anyone wish to help someone else succeed at their own expense?
Secondly, it's unethical. It's cheating and is similar to the scratch my back, quid-pro-quo reviews that result in reader reviews being perceived as meaningless. The New York Times recently cited such behavior as being one of the biggest problems with EBook publishing.
Wannabee Authors need to become more professional rather than simply taking an ego trip at the expense of the many talented professional writers in the business.

Larry, I agree with you about tagging. It's important to list the right tags for your books so readers can find the type of books they want. Beyond this, tagging to promote is a no, no. I don't agree with you about helping other authors in other ways, particularly Indies. There will never be too many good books available. While i want to compete for sales, I'm also a reader and want more good books.

As a reader, I have to disagree with Larry about competing for readership. I can finish a good book in a day or two..and then what? Unless that author has an unlimited supply of books waiting for me to buy, I need to move on to the next one. I love getting recommendations from authors because I feel they are closest to knowing what constitutes a well developed character and smart plots, etc.

No matter how much I love an author, I still need to find others that I can read while I'm waiting for my faves to publish the next book. There will never be a point where I can only choose one book over the other...I want them all!

Larry, I have actually found some great books through tagging my friends. I actually purchased many and I wouldn't have even know they were available had I not seen their tags. It was the tags that sold those books. Authors are also readers and this way we can help each other as well as find book that we actually like to read. I don't purchase any books I don't feel I would read. I've now found some great authors that I will follow and buy their books. I also recommend some of those books to my family and friends.

Kris wrote: "As a reader, I have to disagree with Larry about competing for readership. I can finish a good book in a day or two..and then what? Unless that author has an unlimited supply of books waiting for m..."

Kris, you are an author's dream!! You'll find several wonderful writers on the Amazon forums also. Try "The Spinning Wheel", "The Kindle Comfort Inn", and "The Writer's Corner". I can give you links if you need them. These threads are in the "Meet the Authors" forum, and have a wide variety of authors/readers who participate in conversations about anything and everything. I've found so many wonderful books there because once I get to know the people, read excerpts from their books, and like their personality, I figure I'll like what they've written too! And it's so true. Come visit!

Hmmmm! I agree with Larry #5 message. From a reader's perspective, I want the tag to have integrity just as I want the back cover blurb to accurately suggest the narrative and the reviews to be accurate and honest. I've a preference for articulate reader reviews which demonstrate insight into writing rather than the BIG REVIEWERS. Do the latter get paid?

Seriously, how many times have you read a REVIEW by a big name only to find the story didn't live up to it.

Kris wrote: "As a reader, I have to disagree with Larry about competing for readership. I can finish a good book in a day or two..and then what? Unless that author has an unlimited supply of books waiting for m..."

As an author, I would have to disagree with Larry as well, about competing for a reader following (not to mention the very condescending comments he made about other authors). First thing, the world is actually very big, and as a matter of fact, it's not an ocean and readers are not fish and authors are not fishermen. I am afraid that authors are today becoming primarily business people/fishermen!

The literary world is fast forgetting what literature and books and writing books, is all about. It is a love for paper and ink, a love for telling stories, a love for hearing stories being told, and a love to stack those memories away on a shelf only to be re-discovered and re-ignited in the future. Now that's what literature is about. That's what it's really about.

I am an author and I do my own thing and I have no time to join forums very often and promote and market myself very often and even this message I'm writing right now, I had to think first if I should set aside the time to write this! This is my personal choice to put standing up and living my life first and foremost before sitting down and writing. I want my writing to come from my living, not my living from my writing. But, that doesn't mean that I look down upon authors who do write to live or who dedicate so much of their time to promotions and marketing.

I think in the big picture, people are losing site of the subject. Writing is about heart and soul, and authors are beginning to see readers as fish in the sea and readers are beginning to see authors as people who need to make money off of them, all of this saddens me. And...the rotten cherry on top of this diseased sundae, is that authors are actually hurting other authors by saying condescending things, by going off in highschool-ish cliches and saying "We are the professionals and they aren't" or whatever form of overgrown immaturity from middle school that didn't disintegrate after puberty... sighs... enough already.

Let us read and let us be read, with no antagonism and no resentment and no competition, let us remember what literature is all about.

Larry wrote: "Authors tag their own books as to applicable reading interests. The only advantage to multiple taggings is to bite the hand of the very bookseller that's advancing the cause of EBooks, while also ..."

If you think that professional book reviewers can't be and never are corrupted, then you are very naive.

Marketing books is a tough business. Not everyone will be popular. I find it honorable to help others. Kirkus Reviews charges to review a book and if they dislike it your out tons of cash. NY Times Bestseller List is so rigged and I've talked to inside sources about it. I'm happy when other writers succeed. Best wishes to ALL and Enjoy the Journey

M.G. Wells
LightMasters: Number 13

Wow. Larry really stirred the pot on this one. I've been in other tag exchanges and not been impressed with the follow up, but happy to try this one. It's all marketing and I don't see how you could call it cheating. Presumably, people agree with the tags as they go through and check them. Why wouldn't they?

The idea is to get your book in front of prospective readers. Publishers pay for table space at B&N, and there's a lot of quid pro quo in the "real" book review world that is disappearing before our very eyes. This is a new medium in evolution. Rules can come later.

Seems like a splendid idea! Sending in a request to the Facebook group post-haste. I really don't understand the drama end of it, though. I mean, coming up with fake reviews, having droves of people 5 star one another under false pretenses...now that I would let fall under the cheating sort of category...but tagging? Goodness. Tagging is just marking what the book is, helping with search engine optimization and the like. It's not cheating, it's filing.

Chris wrote: "Seems like a splendid idea! I really don't understand the drama end of it, though. I mean, coming up with fake reviews, having droves of people 5 star one another under false pretenses...now that I..."

Very well said, Chris!

Tagging something just helps to make sure it comes up better or higher in searches. It certainly isn't cheating. I can read the description of a book and decide if those tags fit.

I agree with Bridget - and to answer the question, of: "Why would anyone wish to help someone else succeed at their own expense?" gee I don't know, because we are all Authors and isn't the whole Point of this particular site to help one another? Or are you just here for yourself to see what you can get out of the rest of us? I will be happy to tag whatever links you all put up - and not ask for you to do the same for mine. Why would we help anyone, what a horrid attitude to have...

C. wrote: "Kris wrote: "As a reader, I have to disagree with Larry about competing for readership. I can finish a good book in a day or two..and then what? Unless that author has an unlimited supply of books ..."

This is a lovely reply Kris.

I think you have all summed up my reaction to that earlier post.

I'm going outside now, to breathe deeply whilst thinking peaceful thoughts in an effort to rid my mind of the line 'wanna-be authors'.

(There is a preview button. I think it's prudent to re-read a post before putting it up, self-editing and self-monitoring...)

I told family and friends not to put reviews for my book on sites because i thought it was shady practices, but i dont see the problem with tagging.

Christopher wrote: "I told family and friends not to put reviews for my book on sites because i thought it was shady practices, but i dont see the problem with tagging."

I can't see the problem with tagging either, nor the facebook likes swap.

I agree on reviews, they should always be an honest opinion. I did the same with my family and friends (after a friend reviewed a few of my stories without telling me). I posted about it in the creative reviews group under the title: Shiny Little Stars that look Pretty but Feel Fake. It's an interesting thread in terms of the responses and advice.

To avoid it happening again I posted a request on my private facebook profile asking people not to do it in the future (I may have offended but it was a risk I had to take).

But one thing I think worth pointing out. Even if a writer was dishonest enough to call upon friends and family to write a hoard of glowing five star reviews (it does happen, I've seen it. Trace the reviewer back to their profile, when did they join? Have they reviewed other books? Any obvious connection between the places that the reviewers come from (many people from one particular town or city?)) what difference do those glowing stars make if the book is poor, or badly edited, readers will still notice! Those stars don't change the content of the book. They don't improve the quality of the writing or the plot line or the characters.

Also, if I see that a reviewer has given five stars to something I know to be full of spelling and grammatical mistakes (and they haven't mentioned those flaws once in that gushing review) I question the reliability of that person's reviews in the future.

We do all need to stick together and I like it that way, but honest feedback helps a writer. All in all I get more offended at unkind comments about indie writers than I do at the thought of fake stars. In the end a good story is a good story, no matter how many stars or whether it is indie or traditionally published.

Sorry - am new to this. Could someone please define "tagging" for me. Cheers, Cassian

Hey cassian. Its when people search for something using a word or phrase. If u tag your book with those phrases it will help you find the type of product you are looking for. For instance go to amazon and type alternate dimensions and all the books with those tags will show up. You can see a list of the procts tags on the bottom of the product page on amazon. You can select to agree with tags which increases its relevance when searched for.

Thanks Christopher - seems obvious, really. Cheers, Cassian

Thanks, John! I've sent a request to join the group.

That's awesome! I sent a request to join the group as well! :-)

Just sent a request to join.

Request sent. Awesome idea.

I sent a request to join. There's an interesting debate going on here. I believe it deserves a post of it's own.

Since this thread began in October, those who participated initially seem to have fallen out of touch with the ongoing tagging fest. (Notice; there are a total of only eight authors who joined this conversation during the entire month of January.)

Perhaps rather than doing this through Facebook, we can simply post links to our Amazon pages here, and start over?

I find it too difficult to keep up with a tagging thread. If there were some way to use a frequently-updated website, as Women's Literary Cafe does with their Tagging4Authors (using Linky Tools), it might be easier for everyone.

Marcia Quinn wrote: "Since this thread began in October, those who participated initially seem to have fallen out of touch with the ongoing tagging fest. (Notice; there are a total of only eight authors who joined this..."