Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone discussion

This may be odd to some people.. but this movie came out just a couple months after 9/11 happened, in 2001.

Is anyone else as grateful as I am to have had this series to escape to while the world felt like it was falling apart?

I hear you and understand. I think hollywood was scared about what to put out; especially comedies. HP had a little of everything and helped with escaping harsh realities. Being a military wife and having small children at that time, HP was a wonderful escape for my kids and gave us something to enjoy. Nothing wrong with trying to be happy when the world is falling apart. As long as we remember and never forget. SO WATCH IT@!!! :D

Ok, this was not intended to turn into a political debate.

I was in 7th grade when the towers fell, and that's how it felt; that the world was falling apart. I am just noting that it was a very opportune time for Harry Potter to come into my life, and wondering if people were feeling the same.

Goran wrote: "World falling apart??? Harsh realities??? What was the number of casualties, 3000 or so?
I'd be happy to inform you that USA caused much much more innocent casualties around the globe with their "i..."

It is unfair to assume that all americans are ignorant, and also as a child at that time I was terrified of what might happen next and any kid who's country is attacked would feel like that, so anything (including a movie or book) that helps is much appreciated and I think thats what Chelseabelle meant.

Goran wrote: "World falling apart??? Harsh realities??? What was the number of casualties, 3000 or so?
I'd be happy to inform you that USA caused much much more innocent casualties around the globe with their "i..."

Speaking of ignorant!
No one said the US has never done a thing wrong. But that SO isn't what this is about.
Besides that, 9/11 was an unprovoked attack on civilians - there were preschools in those buildings for crying out loud! Not to mention, it wasn't only American lives that were lost.
You have no idea what it was like to live so close to the terror attacks. I do. Many people lost loved ones that day. Your remarks are callous and to use your own wording extremely ignorant.
Keep your arrogant and thoughtless comments to yourself.

Linda wrote: "Goran wrote: "World falling apart??? Harsh realities??? What was the number of casualties, 3000 or so?
I'd be happy to inform you that USA caused much much more innocent casualties around the glob..."

Thank you, Linda. The fantasy of being wisked away to Wizarding school was a loverly getaway. :)

Goran wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Goran wrote: "World falling apart??? Harsh realities??? What was the number of casualties, 3000 or so?
I'd be happy to inform you that USA caused much much more innocent casualties ..."

Um, no. In case you don't understand the difference, that's not the same thing at all.
We weren't at war. War is not the same thing as a terror attack. In war casualties are expected and the targets are generally military targets. In terror attacks, the violence is not expected and the targets could be anyone.

I'm sorry that you've had to live through war, but please tell me one event that you've seen that compares to the magnitude of 9/11. One that was unprovoked and completely unexpected. One where citizens from over 100 nations were murdered. One where the targets were business men and women, children, and anyone else who happened to get in the way (in fact, in that case, the more people they murdered, the better for their cause). One that was purely an act of terrorism. And one that was the first of it's kind in the nation.

"Oh yes sorry, and USA is provoked by pursuit of oil and imperialism."

That's completely ridiculous. So those people had it coming, did they? They deserved to die?
And by the way, terrorism isn't about politics. It's about world domination. No provocation necessary.
Like I said, you sound ignorant to the extreme.

Nothing the US has done in the past has ever called for something like that. Or since, by the way.

As a child who was 11 almost 12 living in Ohio near chemical plants. It definitely felt like the world was coming to an end and I didn't understand it. I was worried about family in the new york area and the children who no longer had parents. I feel it's encouraged many in my generation to join the service. I have a cousin in the marine corps and friends in various branches.

so sad for the people who died on that tragedy. those people were true heroes.

Goran wrote: ""Um, no. In case you don't understand the difference, that's not the same thing at all.
We weren't at war. War is not the same thing as a terror attack. In war casualties are expected and the targe..."

I know plenty of facts. I'm not some naive kid who's just repeating the things I've heard. You, however, continue to show your ignorance and callousness.

Why exactly are you throwing statistics at me? Yes, I know war is bad and that innocent people die. I was pointing out that there is a very big difference between war and terrorism. Something that is obviously beyond your comprehension.
9/11 was not an act of war by any definition. It was purely terrorism and therefore not comparable to what happens in war.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me one event that compares to 9/11.
I'm not talking total death or damage over a span of a war. Obviously there's destruction in war. I was asking for something actually comparable. I'd be willing to bet that you cannot, because nothing of that magnitude has happened since.
And no, I'm not talking "media attention". I mean factual instances of terrorism that fit the qualifications I listed above and resulted in as many deaths.

"Do you truly believe that crazed suicide bomber thinks about world domination?"

Really? Do you know nothing about Islamic extremists???
Again, I point out the ignorance in your statement.
Yes, suicide bombers are indeed interested in world domination if they are Islamic extremists.
If you know anything about the deep beliefs of Islam - the ones the terrorists are following, you'd know that they believe that they must destroy the infidel. Or anyone who does not believe as they do. They believe that their death is a noble sacrifice that will be rewarded because the spread of their religion is more important than their physical bodies are right now. They are trying to take over the world. What do you think they are doing??? Are you actually naive enough to think it's about oil? Really?
Do your homework please. Study the Quran and what it says about the "infidel".
http://www.bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm

And since you seem to think that I don't know my facts and that we are hypocritical. Take a look in the mirror. You've shown you know nothing about the people who actually carried out the acts of 9/11.

I've talked to several people from other countries on here, and whenever they decide to spout their "knowledge" on the evils of the US, they ALWAYs wind up sounding like ignorant fools. You, my friend, are no exception. I don't know where you get your information from, but I assure you, you are lacking plenty of it.
You cannot generalize all Americans because all Americans differ in their thinking. If you'd research it a little bit instead of believing what you've been told, you'd learn that plenty of Americans aren't even interested in other countries' oil because we have our own. You'd also learn that the government, particularly the present one in power, often acts contrary to what the people actually want. So before you start spouting about how America deserved what happened, as you told me, "at least know some basic facts".

By the way, this thread wasn't about your twisted views of 9/11 it was about relating to those who have experienced the same feelings as a result of what happened. And being that you are not an American, you cannot relate.
Your comments about the 'triviality' of the number of deaths of 9/11 is highly disrespectful of those who lost their lives and makes me sick.

You can reply if you want. I'm done responding to you, though.

Chelseabelle wrote: "This may be odd to some people.. but this movie came out just a couple months after 9/11 happened, in 2001.

Is anyone else as grateful as I am to have had this series to escape to while the wor..."

Well, I wasn't going to post on this thread, since I didn't get into HP until a few years ago, but since I've already posted....*sigh*

No, I wasn't reading this series then, but I certainly know how you feel about having an escape from the scary reality of 9/11.

@ Goran I am not sure how old you are or were when the attacks happened on 9/11. As the original poster stated above she was in the 7th grade a child and HP proved to be an escape for her at a time in her childhood when she was scared.

She was commenting on her coping mechanism not on the right or wrong of war itself. There are many things right and wrong our country and others have done in the name of war. If you want to argue about atrocities we have done, then let's start a comment thread on the novel Hiroshima by John Hersey.

But by arguing with the memory of someone when they were in 7th grade you are essentially fighting with a child.....so grow up. You just want to argue, go start a fight on another thread.

I escaped into books after 9/11, but for me it was Tolkien instead of Potter. I started reading Lord of the Rings for the first time a few weeks after it happened.

It seems to me that some people have completely missed the point of this thread.

Goran wrote: ""I was pointing out that there is a very big difference between war and terrorism. Something that is obviously beyond your comprehension.
9/11 was not an act of war by any definition. It was purely..."

ok, I lied. There is one thing I can't help but correct, even though the rest of what you said is ridiculous and it's obvious that you are still totally missing the point.

Your link to "Christianity" is grossly misrepresented. I'd be happy to show anyone any 'example' on that warped website of the 'evils' of Christianity, why what they say is COMPLETELY wrong. Can you do that with the stuff on the Islamic website that I gave? I don't think so.

Goran wrote: "No I can't, cause I don't know the kuran, but then I don't know the bible either, would you care to show me why they are wrong?"

I wouldn't mind a bit. But considering that every single thing on that website is taken out of context and just plain lied about, it would take a very very long time. Care to pick something?

But I assure you, nothing in the Bible can be called 'evil'.

Well, first off, if you want to know what the Bible says, you've got to be using the correct Bible - the KJV. All other English versions are inaccurate.

That said, have you ever heard of laws? You break the law, you pay the consequence. Those are both examples of consequence.

Today, the government regulates the law for us. At least here on earth.
You murder someone, you either go to jail or are put to death, if the justice system is fair.
In Bible times, God was the law and is nothing but fair. He gave commandments and if those commandments were broken, He dealt out judgment. Sometimes in the form of stoning or an army wiping out a nation.
There's nothing 'evil' in that. It's simple physics, actions have consequences.

If God did not bring about judgment on these people He would not only be unfair, He would be a liar.
It would be like a human judge who knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that the accused was guilty but lets him go free after saying he wouldn't do that. He would be completely unjust and a liar.

Yes, they did put people to death for adultery.
Exodus 20:14 "Thou shalt not commit adultery."

That's one of the 10 commandments - a 'big sin', if you will. Just because people think nothing of it today, doesn't mean God thinks that way.

The 'kill the sons of sinners' "quote" is not a general statement. It's talking specifically about the decedents of Babylon - an extremely wicked people whom God decided that it was time for their judgment.
The Bible is full of such judgment. The Old Testament at certain parts is pretty bloody. Because God allows people a free will and to sin if they choose to. But that doesn't mean they won't be judged for those sins.
Today, we will still be judged for our sins the way those people were judged for theirs. God is just much more patient with us today. And He works in different ways than He did then.

But those areas are not instructions for us to follow today. Those instances were specific commands for a specific people at a specific time. Not a plan of action for the future.

Islam on the other hand says "when you meet the unbelievers, smite them at their necks" Surah 47:4
"Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem." Qur'an 9:5
"Take not the Jews and Christians as friends....Slay the idolaters [non-Muslims] wherever ye find them.... Fight against such...as believe not in Allah..." Surah 5:51; 9:5

According to these 'verses' and a bunch of others in the Quran, the terrorists were only acting out their faith.
There's not a verse in the Bible that would justify us taking part in anything like that.

So no, you could not say the same of Christianity and the Bible.

I'd highly recommend looking at that website. It has direct links to the quran and is extremely educational.

As far as I can tell, this conversation can be boiled down to 'who's imaginary friend is better?'..People have been killing each other for thousands of years and using religion to justify it. In every case it is evil. But in any case, this thread is about finding solace in books, not debating politics or religion.

huh. I didn't know we had guidelines.

And please show me where anyone said one was "better".
All I've done was point out what the Bible and the Quran say.
Besides faith in God is not 'religion'.

It's interesting that you haven't gotten involved to stop the rabbit trailing until now.

I hope this thread gets locked or deleted by administrators. The intent of the OP has been totally derailed. This is not a religion or political discussion forum.

If you were to watch the video of the towers collapsing you would understand that is was our own government that did this. Towers that were hit by a plane that far up would not fall straight down. No building falls straight down.

The day before the attack all the gold that was in the basement of the twin towers were removed. The bombs were planted at each level. They were planned to go off at a certain time. If you watch really close to the actually live video on what happen you can see each level one by one being set off by bombs.

If you knew the history of the United States you would understand it a lot more. If you haven't noticed, everytime the government goes into a crisis, they will find a way to get money. If it means attacking your government they will. It has happened. It will continue to happen. We are now number 5 in the World Power rankings. From 1 to 5. It's pretty sad.

This war is not even ours. It was just the government sending them out to hide the fact that is was our own government that attacked the Twin Towers.

That's just plain ridiculous.

The "bombs" on each level couldn't possibly be the structure of the building collapsing, could it?
Why don't buildings fall straight down? I didn't know there was a set angle they are supposed to fall at. And what exactly do you have to compare that to?
Did the government also plant bombs in part of the Pentagon? Why not the whole thing?
What about flight 93?
Where would they have found suicide bombers?
How exactly did the government gain money from 9/11? War isn't cheap.
And finally, what in history indicates any of your government conspiracy theory?

Honestly.

umm-waznt this supposed 2 b about harry potter AND 9/11?!this iz of topic

Kristen wrote: "That's just plain ridiculous.

The "bombs" on each level couldn't possibly be the structure of the building collapsing, could it?
Why don't buildings fall straight down? I didn't know there was a s..."

It's the truth. People hide the truth just to make themselves feel better.

But yes, buildings don't fall straight down unless their base had been exploded. The Twin Towers for example. Every single building falls at an angle.

I would gather the truth before you start talking.

Goran wrote: "@ Kirsten

If you truly think that way, I feel sorry for you, and your God!

You are obviously beyond any help. Have a nice day!"

That's just pitiful. People generally try to refute things they think are wrong. The one's who can't say things like this. And if you'll pay attention to the bottom of that post, you'll realize that the only reason I did it was to show you that what you said was wrong about being able to say that about Christianity.
But honestly, if you were just gonna cop out why did you even bring it up?

Taylor wrote: "It's the truth. People hide the truth just to make themselves feel better.

But yes, buildings don't fall straight down unless their base had been exploded. The Twin Towers for example. Every single building falls at an angle.

I would gather the truth before you start talking."


Oh, I'm well aware that people ignore/hide the truth sometimes, but what you're saying is completely ludicrous.
Where exactly am I supposed to gather this 'truth'? If it's the truth, the evidence should exist other than your obscure interpretation of the video footage.

Have you seen alot of buildings collapse? Because if you haven't, you can't accurately say something like 'building's don't fall straight down', because you have no idea how they would or would not fall. You're just guessing.

And how about the answer to those other questions. Because if you really believe that, you should have an answer for them.

Natalie wrote: "umm-waznt this supposed 2 b about harry potter AND 9/11?!this iz of topic"

By all means, stay on topic. These things always get off topic. But someone can always post after that and get it back on track.

Goran wrote: ""But honestly, if you were just gonna cop out why did you even bring it up?"


What's the point? You ignore my arguments, and I sure can't see any sense in yours. And besides, I've long ago gave up..."

If by 'ignoring your arguments' you are referring to the post where i said i was done responding, then yes, i did. Because there was so much wrong with what you said, i really dont even know where to start. And as i said before, your comments about 9/11 are disrespectful and make me sick.

However you presented no other arguments to anything else I said. You merely sited a ridiculous website which i can and have easily refuted.
And since you "gave up arguing with people who take the Bible seriously" I again ask, why did you even bring it up? And why then, did you ask me to explain what you did?

My personal feelings on the Bible and Islam have no relevance to what I said.
And since you seem to think it does, you've obviously missed the point.
It's called knowing "some basic facts". Something you seemed quite interested in before.

And really? Twilight? Can you think of no better insult?
That's sad.
Harry potter is really not all that much different in quality and substance. Yet here you are on a HP discussion board.

Anyway, I apologize to Chelseabelle.
I know this isn't what you had in mind when you started this thread. And while I don't see anything wrong with diverting from the topic, I admit this has turned into a bit of a circus. I have a bad habit of getting drawn into these kinds of discussions.
I won't be helping to derail this one any longer.

Back to the topic :)

That is why 'I' did not respond, because He started commenting rudely about my comments. This is called 'Goodreads' not lashing out and getting on a political kick. There are some groups on here that don't care, but I do. I enjoy reading and enjoy opinions on books. Many people tried to find escape after 9/11 and with comediennes and hollywood treading lightly, when HP came out; i believe the country was ready and willing.

I know. Like I said, bad habit. I don't get mad from what people say on here very often, but every once in a while you find one of these people and I just can't seem to help myself...
Anyway, like I said before, I wasn't reading HP then. Actually I didn't read much of anything at that time. I didn't really enjoy it then, but I wish I was. It would have been great to have it as an escape.

Kristen wrote: "Anyway, I apologize to Chelseabelle.
I know this isn't what you had in mind when you started this thread. And while I don't see anything wrong with diverting from the topic, I admit this has turne..."

It's okay. I am usually the type to let someone get under my skin, but you were doing so well that I decided to sit it out. *shrugs* I appreciate your passion. :)

It was just an interesting moment to me.. to realize that Harry Potter, which has shaped me so much as a reader and a moviegoer, and a nerd in general (and I use that term with fondness), came into my life at the same time as 9/11. I am part of a generation that has simultaneously witnessd the rebirth of LOTR, the world-domination of Harry Potter (and the subsequent Fantasy YA reading EXPLOSION), and I think it is owed in part to 9/11. As a kid, I felt I could relate to the threat of Voldemort, and Sauron, and even the White Witch (narnia), beacuse of what was going on in the world.

Not sure where I am "going," with this. Just an observation.

Chelseabelle wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Anyway, I apologize to Chelseabelle.
I know this isn't what you had in mind when you started this thread. And while I don't see anything wrong with diverting from the topic, I adm..."

lol, thanks.
I never thought about it, but it makes alot of sense actually. That the explosion of fantasy obsession in our country really got going at a time when reality was so blatantly...unpleasant. Interesting.

Kimberly LoVe wrote: "Oh my goodness, no! This movie made everything worse, sorry!"

That's unfortunate that you feel that the Harry Potter books and movies made it more difficult for you to deal with what was going on when 9/11 happened.

Because that's what this topic is about. How Harry Potter helped people cope with world events.

If you legitimately think Harry made YOUR LIFE more difficult aroudn the time of 9/11, then go ahead and share your thoughts and feelings, but if you're here to randomly tell people why you think harry potter is evil or terrible, then I'd suggest you do it on a topic that is meant for that purpose.

Just stumbled across this thread today...

While I mostly agree with Goran's and Taylor's earlier remarks (however, I do think that it is at least fair to say that those attacks were startling and shocking because they were completely unexpected, which does make it somewhat different from a warzone). Much as I could say, I'll try not to derail too much.

No, HP had nothing to do with 9/11 for me - I never made the connection. To be honest, 9/11 has really bored me, not because I don't recognise that the lives lost were tragic and wasteful, but because it is constantly reiterated as THE cataclysmic event when other equally and more reprehensible things were, and are going on. I am truly exhausted of the before and after 9/11 line that has been drawn, not for Americans (which I understand, because it did change their worldview), but that it is appropriated to the rest of us. I remember reading a Religious Studies textbook where the first paragraph detailed how 9/11 brought to world together in prayer. Rubbish. The majority of people in the world don't even know that it happened because they have no access to outside media. And even if they had seen it, it would be meaningless.

In any case, I do think that when times are terrible fiction can give us an escapism and I am grateful for that.

Edit: Odd wording.

sometimes running away from the truth isnt always a good thing.....just face it, dont let the movie take you from reality.

Kimberly LoVe wrote: "It made me think of witchcraft, which brought me back to the horrible attacks.

It made me think of really bad horrible ever characters, coming back to life..."

That seems like a bit of a leap.

I guess it isn't clear how you got from witchcraft to terrorist attacks, nor bad people coming back to life. What does one have to do with the other? Please explain.

Kimberly LoVe wrote: "Shélah wrote: "I guess it isn't clear how you got from witchcraft to terrorist attacks, nor bad people coming back to life. What does one have to do with the other? Please explain."

Witchcraft..."

I agree with Shelah. That's a stretch. With that kind of logic you could connect anything that has any theme of good v. evil directly to the terrorist attacks and therefore EVERY book or movie or piece of art made the attacks worse for you.

If that's the case, I feel sorry for you because apparently you can't take comfort in anything ever, according to your argument.

Kimberly LoVe wrote: "Chelseabelle wrote: "Kimberly LoVe wrote: "Shélah wrote: "I guess it isn't clear how you got from witchcraft to terrorist attacks, nor bad people coming back to life. What does one have to do with..."

Actually MOST fantasy (and adult fiction, and non-fiction) have villians resurfacing. In fact JRR Tolkien, who most people would agree FATHERED the entire genre of Fantasy, wrote an entire age of books based off of one bad guy and his captain.

When I referenced art before I was not referring to Harry Potter, although I believe what JK Rowling wrote was incredible and trumps a lot of what is out there today. There's a reason why her books have won so many awards, whereas other popular YA series have not.

And BTW.. the assessment that Harry Potter is "low, on the art scale," is an opinion. Not a fact.

There will always be good and evil in the world. I don't know that there was fantasy prior to Tolkien and most fantasy writers have been inspired by Tolkien.

Audra wrote: "There will always be good and evil in the world. I don't know that there was fantasy prior to Tolkien and most fantasy writers have been inspired by Tolkien."

Loads of fantasy prior to JRRT. EG: Lord Dunsany
Post WW1 also saw a blossoming of fantasy...to balance the horrors of the war?

I would think it was to balance things back out. Modern fantasy by most standards started after Tolkien.

Re the solace of HP and LOTR in times of chaos etc, a quote:
“Fairy tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.”
― G.K. Chesterton

Goran wrote: "...I would guess that you're still a bit young for Tolkien, give it a few years and try again..."

Nooooo!
Step away from the JRRT!
Put it down...deep breath...feeling better?
Now where were we?

Kimberly LoVe wrote: "OK?
Don't particurlary admire that one, but ok."

Best stay away from H.P. Lovecraft then.

Kimberly LoVe wrote: "Thanks...I'll watch out for it."

Aye, HPL writes of things that make Voldemort look like a nice old lady that likes kittens...

Kimberly LoVe wrote: "Audra wrote: "There will always be good and evil in the world. I don't know that there was fantasy prior to Tolkien and most fantasy writers have been inspired by Tolkien."

Out of curiousity, do..."

Christopher Paolini and Elizabeth Hayden. If you don't like Fantasy, stop reading it.

What do you consider good fantasy?

I will not tell you, your opinion is wrong. I would consider Twilight to also be young adult. I have enjoyed House of Night books. I however, don't consider Twilight to be very good, the characters are lacking at times for me. I feel Tolkien wrote for older audiences than did Stephanie Meyer. Given comparing, non-vampire based fantasy to fantasy books is like comparing apples to oranges.