Reading the Chunksters discussion

Ok, some questions to get you all thinking!


1. Is Moraguse justified in her actions, or is she simply making excuses for her ambitions?

2. Does King Leodegranz seem genuinely concerned for his daugher's wellbeing, or does he have other motives?

3. Why do you think Igraine has changed so much in her beliefs and opinions?

4. What are your thoughts on Arthur's choice of bride. Did he make the right choice?

I have to say that for a feminist writer I was very surprised that Bradley created one of the most unsympathetic versions of Gwen that I have ever come across previously. I loathe the woman and I find almost all the chapters dealing with her to be completely infuriating. I just want someone to strangle her or smack her upside the head.

I also do not quite understand what the author was going for when she made Gwen agoraphobic, that seemed a bit strange to me and I didn't quite get it.

Of all the characters I find Gwen the most unrelatbale and there is never a moment in which I feel the least bit sorry for her.

On the topic of Morgause I love her! She is developing into one of my favorite characters within the book. Yes she is ambitious, and self-serving, and has questionable ethics, but she also represents to me one of the strongest women within the book. She is the one who most knows her own mind and is willing to take action to getting what she wants. She does not accept the rule of anyone else nor does she bend to any one else's will. Even to her husband she is not submissive.

I have sympathy with Morgause too. Her husband compells her to see if something might befall Morgaine's baby and Morgause manages not only to save the infant's life (disobeying her husband's indirect commands), but fosters it under her own care and protection. Granted, the way she behaved wasn't very nice, but for a medieval woman it was ballsy and will possibly ensure Mordred's safety.

Amanda wrote: "I have sympathy with Morgause too. Her husband compells her to see if something might befall Morgaine's baby and Morgause manages not only to save the infant's life (disobeying her husband's indir..."

I did not agree with the way in which she denied Moraine her child, to prevent them from establishing a bond with each other. But at the same time she was unwilling to endanger or sacrifice the life of her sister or the child in the name of her own ambition.

She should not have done what she did, but she is not altogether self-severing, or heartless, she does draw a line to what she is willing to do in the name of fulfilling her own desires.

I did occur to me that should Morgause fail in her mission that something else might befall the child. Denying Morgaine her child seemed heartless, but had Morgause done the right thing and given Morgaine her child so they could bond, would a series of accidents befall the infant like they did Arthur? By turning the baby into something useful for King Lot, she is ensuring his safety.

Amanda wrote: "I did occur to me that should Morgause fail in her mission that something else might befall the child. Denying Morgaine her child seemed heartless, but had Morgause done the right thing and given ..."

Though that may ultimately be true, and while Morgause was unwilling to kill the child out right, I do not know if she truly was so much considering the child's long term safety in her actions. I think that while on the one hand she was not going to commit the infanticide of her nieces child nor put Morgaine's life at risk I think that in taking the child she was motivated by serving her own interests without having to resort to outright murder.

*I realized in my previous post I had forgot for a moment that Morgause was Igraine's sister. In my mind I keep thinking of as Morgaine's sister

1. Morgause is neither a black nor white character; at times I loathe her, while at other times I admire her. But, concerning what she did with Morgaine's child...I simply can't come up with a correct answer. At first, when Lot tells her that they should set it up where Morgaine's baby dies, Morgause is furious. Not only is that baby her relative, but she also realizes that it's just an innocent baby! But, when she contemplates everything, it's as if Lot is repeatedly whispering into her ear, "If the baby lives, then our son won't be an heir to the throne." So, even though she's related to the baby, she's still tempted for her family to acquire power. She partly gave into her dark side--something that clings to us all. Whether or not we act on it helps determine who we are. By not killing the baby, but not letting Morgaine raise it, it's almost as if she's putting her decision on the backburner....This decision gives me torn feelings about Morgause (more negative feelings than good.

2. Although there is no doubt that King Leodegranz loves Gwen, he definitely doesn't care if she's in love with who she is to marry or not (something that occurred almost everytime during this time period). All he's worried about is what's in it for himself. He'd rather Gwen marry the High King because he has the joy of telling everyone his daughter is the wife of the High King. He doesn't care if she loves Lancelet or not; her marrying Lancelet would be beneath them (in his eyes).

I can definitely say though that I absolutely hate Gwen in this novel. I do watch the BBC series Merlin, and love Gwen in it; but in this novel, I find her annoying. I really don't like it that Lancelot loves her back, and that she marries Arthur.

3. I think Igraine changed most of her beliefs and opinions because of her conversion from the Old Relgion to Christianity. In Mists of Avalon, the Old Religion was more accepting of humanity; when Igraine embraced the Old Religion, she spoke her mind more and didn't "go with the flow." But, with Christianity, almost everything is considered a sin. Priests believe that since Adam and Eve (especially since Eve did it first and tempted Adam) fell from the grace of God, that humanity is doomed and that everyone is born inherently evil (I could discuss this topic all day; it's fun to debate about it using Lord of the Flies as support). So, when Igraine converted to Christianity, she sees everything tempting as a sin; she even stops using her Sight (although, she is very tempted to use it). And, Igraine also becomes blind to most things; she couldn't even tell that Morgaine was pregnant. But, she was the first to notice that Gwen loved Lancelet, and that this would jeapordize the marriage between her and Arthur. All I can say is that I miss the old Igraine!

4. Arthur definitely made the wrong choice. With Gwen's heart belonging to Lancelet, she can never truly love Arthur; Arthur and Gwen's "love" is a sham. Even though they've come to care for each other, they don't truly love each other. I feel so sorry for Morgaine because not only does she have to live everyday knowing that she slept with her brother and had his child (and has to keep it secret), but she also have to see Gwen looking into the depths of Lancelet's eyes with love, and Lancelet returning that love to Gwen, not Morgaine.

Brandon wrote: "1. Morgause is neither a black nor white character; at times I loathe her, while at other times I admire her. But, concerning what she did with Morgaine's child...I simply can't come up with a corr..."

"that humanity is doomed and that everyone is born inherently evil (I could discuss this topic all day; it's fun to debate about it using Lord of the Flies as support)" it's also fun using Of Mice and Men as support! :D

Should I start watching Merlin, just one more series I need to get obsessed about...latest obsession, BBC Sherlock...:D

and, i totally agree with EVERYTHING you've said in #4, wow!

Stephanie wrote: Should I start watching Merlin, just one more series I need to get obsessed about...latest obsession, BBC Sherlock...:D

Oh my gosh you totally have to watch it!! Last Christmas break, I stayed up so many nights just to watch the new season on my laptop! It's so good just because the cast is English!! :)

And I never thought about using Of Mice and Men to debate the nature of man! That is such a great idea!!! :D

And how good is the show Sherlock????? Do I need to watch it?