YA LGBT Books discussion

Jase sent me the link to this article about two co-authors shopping their YA fantasy book, which features a gay couple and a lesbian couple, to agents. One agent came right out and said that if they removed the POV, or the character entirely, of the gay male character, they would represent them. They refused and are now bringing to light the prejudices that still exist in the publishing world.

How do you feel about this and what do you think can be done to let the publishers and agents know that excluding LGBT characters is both wrong and unacceptable?

Authors Say Agents Try to “Straighten” Gay Characters in YA

As both an author and an editor, I find that highly unacceptable. First of all, giving story advice isn't an agent's place. They're there to sell your book and get you the best damned deal possible. Suggesting changes is what editors get paid to do.

Second, even an editor shouldn't make a suggestion like this without a damned good reason. Our job is to improve the manuscript and help the author perfect it - not rewrite it and change the author's vision.

But things are a lot different in traditional publishing, Ralph, as this article illustrates:

http://accordingtohoyt.com/2011/08/31...

An agent is free to tell the author what changes would need to be made in order for them to accept the work.

And Ralph, you are speaking from the POV of gay friendly publishing houses so I think your knowledge is limited.

Chris wrote: "But things are a lot different in traditional publishing, Ralph, as this article illustrates:

http://accordingtohoyt.com/2011/08/31..."

And that is why the Big 6 are going under.

This is highly absurd though.
Y/A books should help people accept what they are and be happy about it, I don't see how this can be the case when the characters have to look less gay.
It's the same for books with characters with autistic traits, either they are portrayed as disable or they don't seem to exist.

Vladimir diversity is missing quite a lot these days.

The Mary Sue covers this and provides an overview of the last few years of YA publishing:

http://www.themarysue.com/ya-publishi...

And a rebuttal post from the agent in question:

http://theswivet.blogspot.com/2011/09...

Diversity? Are you serious when it's like pulling teeth to just get books about people of color on the shelves (unless they're that wretched "thug lit" which seems to have no problems at all). Think of all the epic cover fail that the big publishers commit time and again. Sorry to say this kind of thing just doesn't shock me in the least.

Vixenne wrote: "Diversity? Are you serious when it's like pulling teeth to just get books about people of color on the shelves (unless they're that wretched "thug lit" which seems to have no problems at all). Th..."

Urban fiction seems to be the only niche where you can find black characters. There've been a few scandals in YA land in the past years where cover artists whitewashed main characters who were obviously either Latino or black. Justine Larbalestier specializes in ethnic minorities, and one of her black characters was turned Caucasian by her publisher's art department.

In those cases, a lot of hollering from the authors' fans as well as fellow YA writers made the publishers backtrack and change the covers to more appropriate ones.

I blogged about those incidences, but I'm too tired from today's writing to be arsed to look for the old links at my blog.

Suffice it to say, the reason why I always throw my weight and support behind small and micro presses (and indie authors) is because they constantly fill a necessary gap that the Big Six refuse to address for profit reasons.

That's exactly why the Big Six are in such trouble. They refuse to address the changing demographics of the world and just like the music industry, will die a well-deserved death.

And here's a great article to tear your hair over. It was posted over a week ago, and I've done my ranting over at my blog, but I thought I'd share this with everyone here with a part of my angry response.

* * * * *

But the real issue remains: Where are all the gay vampires, werewolves, witches and just plain ordinary kids-in-a-story (as opposed to kids-with-a-story)?

As my young readers grow up, I want them to stumble on books that show not just the dramatic coming-of-age side of sexuality, but the matter-of-fact, even-lesbians-sometimes-have-to-battle-to-the-death side. Sometimes the fact that you’re a boy with a boyfriend is the story, sometimes it’s not. Graphic explanations aren’t necessary. But a girl who’s about to be expelled from her village into the outer wilds ought to be able to grab her girlfriend’s hand. Read more

I registered for an account with the NYT just to post a couple of comments in response to the article as well as one of the commenters who said, "Sounds like an niche market business opportunity just waiting to be exploited ..."

In my comments, I specifically noted that there are niche publishers already tackling the situation, and they've been doing it for a few years now. I even specified which publishers do it, but my comments never got posted by the moderator.

Wow. Unless they never went through to begin with, I'll admit to not being surprised at all that they never showed up.

Why, why, why, why, why can't people look beyond those short-sighted Big Six presses who follow the money trail and not literature and the needs of the reading masses? The Big Six are the only game in town, really? Does someone else have to spoon feed people information about small presses who've been doing way more than mainstream presses in expanding and enriching literature by risking works that will never guarantee the Big Six people millions in sales?

Hayden wrote: "Where are all the gay vampires, werewolves, witches and just plain ordinary kids-in-a-story (as opposed to kids-with-a-story)?
"

ahhhhhhhhhhh Thankyou thankyou thankyou... that line just covers what I keep trying to say about story's involving LGBT characters... {not that I mind kids with a story - just that a story is a story and different types of people need to come together to create the story, instead of the homoginised stuff that is the majority!)

ahhhhhhhhhhh Thankyou thankyou thankyou... that line..."

Yes, unfortunately, the mainstream publishing houses refuse to address this (it's all about high school coming out fiction for them), and everyone else (check out the comments and the article itself) refuse to acknowledge or are completely ignorant (willfully ignorant?) of the role that small presses play in tackling the issue.

That's the biggest beef that I have - to too many people, the only books worth talking or reading are those from mainstream houses.

I have one story in the pipeline that's going to be a coming out story, only because the character appears in another book and it's hinted that he's gay but hasn't come out yet, and my editor asked me to write the character's story.

Mostly, though, I want to write stories exactly like the article's asking for. Not a story about a kid being GLBT, but a story about a GLBT kid who... (saves the world, has to deal with his mother abandoning the family, becomes a werewolf...) My daughter is bisexual. Her BFF is gay and has a boyfriend, who is also good friends with my daughter. She has another friend who's lesbian. Those kids tell me that they want to read about kids like them--not about the "Uh oh, I'm GLBT, how do I tell my parents" stuff, but about kids, living their lives, who just happen to be GLBT.

It's interesting how readers sometimes pick up on things the author misses, on a related note...I have a 30-book YA series which is being published (books 1 and 2 are out; 3 comes out in January, I think), and it occurred to me that I only identify one character in the entire series as gay. I decided that wasn't enough and told my daughter and a friend of mine who has read most of the first drafts that I was thinking of having one of the major secondary characters turn out to be bisexual.

Both of them said, "He IS bisexual. Didn't you know that?"

The biggest reason I'm taking Sherwood Smith's word for what happened here is she's a pretty well-known author in the fantasy genre. She has a following, which means her fanbaase will read whatever she writes. They won't care if the character(s) is gay. Most hardcore fantasy fans usually DON'T.

I've seen this type of nonsense when it comes to PoC's. The big publishing houses won't touch anything that doesn't fit their ideas of what these diverse groups want to read. There are a LOT of science-fiction/fantasy fans in these groups and yet the big publishers don't want to see them reflected in books.

What are the big six?

Pearson(penguin), Random, Allen & Unwin,... Ummm hehe I only left the book industry on Friday and I've forgotten..

Allen & Unwin isn't one of the Big 6, they're a Australian publisher.

Penguin, Random House, Harper Collins, Hachette, Macmillan, and Simon & Schuster are the current Big 6 houses. They're all housed in New York and are some of the biggest publishers in the world.

I didn't have this problem when my first novel 'Outtakes of A Walking Mistake' was presented to the big publishers. The main problem was they seemed to want more of a gay boy after straight boy love story, and I really wanted gay kids to have a love story that was more attainable. There was also the suggestion to change the main character to a zombie, which I refused. I really wanted to keep my book like a 16 Candles for gay teens. I'm happy that I held to my initial thoughts on the story. :)

haha Ta Ralph.. I just couldn't think of anyone when I stupidly wrote that message.. O_o

Anthony, did they say why they wanted to change your MC to a zombie? That seems like an odd request. o.O

Yes, one publisher felt it would be a more marketable story due to the 'Twilight' fad. I refused, stating it would change the whole story. I think each publisher had a different request though. One wanted the main love interest to be straight, another wanted the main character to be a zombie. It was always something. The main issue was that they felt it was a 'niche' book that would be a hard sale if there wasn't a 'hook'.

Ahhh, that makes sense. This is why I'm glad I self pubbed my book. I cringed thinking of any changes a publisher would want just to market the book.

I had no problem with minor changes that my agent had made, like add more scenes with certain characters and add some more setting details, but asking to change the sexual orientation of a character, that was too much for me. My point for writing my first book was to give readers a fun gay romance that wasn't based on sex. I wanted there to be an edge to the story, but based on other factors. I'm happy with the result, and people seem to be responding. :)

Yeah, I can deal with minor changes because they tend to help strengthen the story. I could never fathom changing the sexual orientation of any of my characters.

Anthony wrote: "Yes, one publisher felt it would be a more marketable story due to the 'Twilight' fad. I refused, stating it would change the whole story. I think each publisher had a different request though. One..."

Seriously Anthony--had they read the book?? I can't even imagine a zombie--truly I can't imagine your book any differently--thank you form a happy reader who is thrilled you stuck to your guns and went with your gut!

Wow, thanks so much sammy. Yes, it's easy to be led in a different direction from the original thought when hearing the opinions of different publishers. The whole matter was confusing to say the least, but I'm happy with my decision. I'm a romantic at heart, so that's what I wanted for others when it came to the story. xo

Anthony wrote: "Wow, thanks so much sammy. Yes, it's easy to be led in a different direction from the original thought when hearing the opinions of different publishers. The whole matter was confusing to say the l..."

Makes me glad I publish with a small writer-centric press. Maybe they don't edit me enough, but at least they would never suggest warping a book out of recognition like that!

And that shows why large presses really turn me off. It's always the same old, same old. Knockoffs of knockoffs of knockoffs, as I call many of the YA books they publish. Like Kaje, I'm glad I'm published with small presses. I've worked with three so far, and they've all respected my "vision" (yeah, yeah, sounds rather pretentious, but, hey - true enough, right?).