College Students! discussion

Careless and light and fun for us; but what about the younger girls (who granted shouldn't be reading it) who are falling in love with characters who are too perfect to be true, hating characters that make mistakes, and looking up to a girl who takes herself out of the world when her boyfriend leaves her? She literally cannot function without him, and does not get over, not really, it in any way, shape or form. I just have a lot of issues with this series in general... I'm worried what it's doing to the minds of the girls reading it, and what they'll expect from romance/how they'll react to it when they're too young to fully understand these things. *sigh* sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now...

Those same girls who are wearing full make-up at age 8, dieting, and wearing skimpy clothes, you mean? The same girls whose mothers allow them to these unrealistic expectations?

That's not a fallback on the series, it's a fallback on the family. You said it yourself: they shouldn't be reading it. That falls onto the parents, and parental supervision ... or lack thereof.

Sucks. All around. But it's not something to pin on the books.

Not all the girls are doing all that. I hear what you're saying, and I know there are a lot of girls out there who are growing up too fast, but there is so much hype behind this series that way more girls are going out looking for them than would have originally, some even reading it behind their parents' backs. And I wasn't pinning all of that behavior on the books, all I was saying was that they're getting more bad than good from them. That's all. And that's why I don't like them.

Ugh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean for this to turn into a fight... I wasn't trying to offend anyone. I'm really sorry if I did.

It's okay. It's not really a fight. Everybody has their own opinion. It is sad to me though that parents are letting their 8 year old daughters read it. If a customer asks me if Twilight is okay for that age, I'm like "definitely not!" Some parents just don't care what their kids read...

I read all the series in the summer. One right after another because it's a really light read like Harry Potter. I've read those too. They are a bit childish, but in my opinion, I miss being childish sometimes. Haha. I have to admit... I'm getting tired of seeing 30 year old wearing Twilight shirts and everyone saying "I love Edward". These are just easy, fun books to read and then put down. They don't require any after thought like classics or even recent books that are destined to be classics. In my opinion, these books are fine, but they should be taken as what they are... young adult books about teenage vampires.

I see how this could take its tole on young girls, but these girls have parents who bought these books for their children. If they feel they shouldn't be reading them, then they won't. It's parenting that affects children. Not the books.

I did enjoy these books, but I'd never reread them again because they aren't thought-provoking. Just fun like chick lit.

I still haven't seen the movie yet either. I'm waiting for a good copy to download or just until the dvd comes out. I HAVE to watch all the movies that I've read the books to. I just love seeing how the characters are protrayed from what I imagined they would be while reading the book.

SBG (is it okay if I call you that?), thank you for sharing that. I do have to agree with you, a lot of younger kids are reading things behind their parents' backs and taking them out from the libraries and everything, so it's not always the parenting, though much of the time it is. And I know what you mean about things getting stuck in your head, it's like that with me for movies. Once I started watching Air Force One and saw the part where a woman named Melanie was executed, and I couldn't stop thinking about it for days, it bothered me so much. I also started to cry after I saw it--I was 19 years old too haha.

So, I bought Twilight in an airport book store for something mindless to read on the plane. I figured that I would finish it over the weekend and be done with it.

It's written cinematically. And truly, for anyone who says it's childish writing and they're above it, if you're ever read a Jodi Picoult novel and loved it: it's the same type of writing.

The big question I went into these books with were: why do these teenage girls love Edward so much? What's he got that regular teenage kids don't. And beyond his good looks it's really one thing: he loves Bella totally and completely for little to no reason. He says she's amazing and doesn't really go into it. That's what my problem is with these books. It deals with issues troubling teenage girls, but not really dealing with them. Bella thinks she's not good enough. And all she's got is a vampire telling her she is without searching as to WHY she doesn't think she's good enough.

Sorry, I'm sure this has all come up in the posts before mine, but I didn't read them all. Bad poster, I know.

With all the things I've said above in mind: I like this series. I've bought the next book within 5 hours of finishing the one before it, and I'll keep reading until I'm done. (I live in Boston and these books are great to read on public transportation.)

I dunno, I don't think these books are harming anyone or making anyone mindless, I think as functioning humans we understand what is real and what is not. After watching True Blood on HBO I had fantasies about vampires, but it's not like I'm going to ask my boyfriend to bite me. I know what is real and what is not, I think in a way, we all do. Not anymore than aforementioned Jodi Picoult novels are making people mindless and have ridiculous fears. It's entertainment. It's pop culture. It's just....fun.

i wont judge the books because i havent read them.. but i also REFUSE to read them. im not down with the love story bleeding heart ga-ga b.s.
..but thats just me!

i am totally down, however, with stephen king! ^^

I can't believe all the people saying that STEPHEN KING IS JUST JELOUS! What? Excuuuuse me. That's Stephen EFFING King. He has absolutely no reason to be jealous of some books that are very poorly written and popular because corporate-America picked them up and planned up their success.

Stephen King was writing good literature before Meyer and the movies made from his books aren't only deep-breathing and intense eye contact. Not to mention done under a saturated lens.

It might be entertaining, but it's not good.
-- and that's completely without me panicking over America's youth forgetting what actual literature is....

Not meaning to burst anyone's bubble here, but I did.

Haha I totally agree with you. I just think it's funny. Stephen King, jealous?

Me too! :)

I'm glad. Knowing is half the battle, guys! Strength in Unity!

Wow, it's awesome to see the debate. I'm writing a paper for my women's studies class on the inherent anti-feminism of Twilight, focusing on points such as Bella finds value only through a man (Edward then Jacob then Edward); Domestic abuse is normalized ("I do it because I love you so much"; Breaking Dawn when she contemplates covering her bruises).
I mean when I take my "Feminist googles" off, I suppose I can see the appeal. Truthfully, I'd rather have Roland (Wizards and Glass anyone?) over Edward Cullen any day.

Ok so I'm reading the fourth book now (accidentally skipped the third) and seriously I've heard how younger girls shouldn't read it because its sexual! And there is SEX! Frankly, I can see why these people react the way they do because they obviously aren't ready for sex. Breaking Dawn has a few sex spots but they just elude to sex. No there is no question if they do or don't, but frankly most young people have a starting grasp on sex by ten, at least. Before that the books have been G rated. The fourth is barely PG-13.

What I fear and have already had some problems with are people who begin claiming a love for the paranormal (especially preternatural with emphasis on romance) because they read this series. The books are G. Plus, they have only read one series. I can't tell you how many series I've read and they've all been X compared to Twilight and I don't mean that in they all have explicit kinky sex (some did hee hee), but they are grown up books. I will allow my kids to read twilight from birth, skipping the sex till they are over 5 most likely (I'd be reading them probably and why bother with it, its only filler). But even then most kids who don't understand sex would simply skip over those parts and just nod. I think it would be fine for them to read it.

Bella is a shell, but one thing parents need to teach their kids is books aren't real. I'm not very fond of the Meyer's for making Bella so shell-ish, but I think it was really her failure to make the point of how in love with Edward she is. Instead she also gets a character who's way to dramatic and highly annoying. All of why Stephen King probably said she can't write.

My biggest thing with her is she really can't build suspense....

alright well I finished Breaking Dawn last night. I basically agree with a lot of what has been said already. The books are great light reads but definitely not wonderful works of literature. They were also horribly hyped but I don't watch TV or work with tweens so I've been fairly safe from that. Bella is a horrible role model for girls (so glad someone else mentioned it) and she can't cook, seriously it take more than half an hour to put a stroganoff together. I think the debate about children reading them too young is the same debate as children's music or movies...except that children are reading which is a good thing they just need to read something better.

I enjoyed Twilight as a "fluff" book, and while I see how people could comment about Bella's unrealistic infatuation and the over-the-top love in it, I have to say that it's a fantastical love story. This book shouldn't be taken so seriously, especially when the author did not intend for it to be analyzed as much as it is. Criticism is one thing, but do you really think while she was writing this book (for YA, nonetheless) that she was thinking of feminism and domestic abuse?
If that's the case, any book read for pleasure can be ripped apart and analyzed to fit your view point, and I just think that we should give her a break. Clearly she is a first time author who just wrote what she dreamt one night. I'm not at all refuting people who did not like the book- I'm all for personal taste, but to shred through it and dissect it (or any book for that reason) takes away the fun of reading!
As for Stephen King... I'm a part-time fan, and I believe that he should have kept his comments to himself, especially since his recent books have been a stretch; you can tell he's been fishing for new material and it's getting harder to maintain originality and interest.
Also, putting the blame on the series for misbehaving children is complete BS. First of all, I read all sorts of books when I was a child and while I loved getting caught up in them, I was also grounded enough to know that they were JUST BOOKS. As far as parents complaining that this will taint their children, it comes down to just using this particular book as a scapegoat. There are other books out there (and movies/music/tv shows)that are worse and I think it's up to the parents to sit their kids down and make sure they know the difference between reality and fantasy before letting them come in contact with that media. If parents still feel strongly opposed to something, then restrict your kids from reading/watching it, but in the end that only harms your children by sheltering them and making them want to do it even more.
I mean, if you've ever read Farenheit 451 and you thought what they were doing was ludicrous, then this is going down the same path: Restricting people from expanding their horizons (fantasy or otherwise) simply out of fear of the unknown. Sounds crazy, huh?


Whew! Sorry... What a rant. :) Dont hate me!

http://www.bookstove.com/Fantasy/Why-...

I think this is hilarious.

Anastasia wrote: "I enjoyed Twilight as a "fluff" book, and while I see how people could comment about Bella's unrealistic infatuation and the over-the-top love in it, I have to say that it's a fantastical love stor..."

I don't hate you, it's just if you take an upper-division literary theory class, that is what you do, you take a form of literary theory (for me it's feminist theory) and you apply that lens to a work of "literature." Now, I'm not for banning books or anything, but for having open discussions, especially with people who are very impressionable.

Oh and Tahleen, my favorite part of that list:
93. Harry Potter could beat Edward any day with his magic powers.

hahaha

I enjoyed Bella + Edward = Bedward haha.

I see where you're coming from, April. I've taken literature courses before and an upside that was also a downside was having to always criticize something and dissect it... It made reading "pleasure" books awful! lol, I couldn't pick anything up without analyzing it.

Tahleen thank you... That does bring up her clumsiness... That really bothers me...

Anastasia I agree largely, but I also find it fun to rip the book a part just because so many people make it seem like a god. That bothers me. It bothers me more that there might be more emo-tastics as I call them running around because they love Edward... Ew! And I know I'm wrongfully grouping them with emo's, but I dislike them about as much.

lol, hey, just because I enjoyed the books doesn't mean I get a stick up my butt when someone doesn't like it or pokes fun at it... Lol, emo-tastics.. thats hilarious, but sadly, I know what you mean... Did anyone ever see the South Park episode where they made fun of Twilight? Lol the goth kids were getting clumped with the "vamps" and they got offended by it!

Oh my god I must watch that episode immediately. I love South Park.

OMG, Tahleen, that list had me busting up laughing!

My favorites were:
*(if you haven't read the books and are still planning on reading them some of these might be considered spoilers)*

59. She had only been in Forks for a month when Edward had been watching her sleep for two months. (Seriously, that is laugh-out-loud-funny)

65. The reason Edward can't read Bella's mind is because she doesn't have one. (Ah ha, that's right, we said it)

Some of the real reasons why the book(s) were bad are:

16. Lack of character development. (MmmHmm)

40. Stephanie Meyer creates some interesting characters, ie: Jasper and Alice. She then ignores them, and gives them no development. (Such a shame)

45. Bella. (even the filmmakers knew they had to rewrite Bella's character. Sad.)

54. There's far too little actual conflict in the story. But this probably stems from having a flawless main character. (Yeah, they were VAMPIRE stories, right?)

56. They only love each other because she smells good and he's hot. There's no other given reason why. (Oh yeah, and his voice is sooo velvety...and his eyes...his hair...)

That was a funny list, Tahleen. Thanks for the laugh.

Emo-tastics aren't goths. I like goths. They aren't attention whores. Emo-tastics are any of those people who go running around who aren't that atypical I hate my life. Like this whole 'new-age' punk shit. I'm sorry, but half of the 'punks' today don't even know the old punk bands are. They listen to my chemical romance, and a lot of emo music. Punk is NOT emo! UGH! Its disgusting... Don't think I have anything against my chemical romance. I'm just very into groups like that and don't think any one has to stick to just one group, but its fun to look at it like that sometimes. I usually refer to myself as a goth. <3 Voltaire <3

Haha I'm glad it was appreciated! Just FYI I didn't make the list, my professor and I found it via Google. And I didn't even notice the one about Edward watching her for two months when she had only been there for one! I also loved the ones that were spoilers and afterward the writer was like, "SPOILER."

Also, check out my site I'm currently working on for my independent project: http://sites.google.com/site/teenvamp...

It's nowhere near finished, but any feedback would be appreciated. And any hits would be appreciated haha.

Because of your site, I now want to read all of those books! Have you actually read them all, and are those your reviews? They're really good.

The site looks good so far - I can't wait to see what you add...

Thanks Mandee! That makes me feel really good :) Yes I read them all (except Midnight Predator) and they're all my reviews... I need to do a ton more though haha. I'm glad it made you want to read those books!

the twilight series were okay... it's not that great but it was in a way entertaining... =p

Tahleen, awesome link! My favorites were
#28 Too much face touching. WHAT? And
#55 ...no one falls in love instantly, especially teenagers. UM, I remember being a teenager. I fell in love a LOT!

I am basically in the same boat as mostly everybody else here- my little sister told me that they are great books, but i was wary of the twilight cult that was arising. I ended up breezing through them all in a week, though, a few months ago which led to the momentarily neglect of my studies. I did find her style to be very enthralling, it is such easy language, though that they were very fast reads regardless of the intimidating covers they were in. i mean, really; the most unusual word in the book was "unequivocally." and, it seems to be that the word, "velvet" is really "in" right now. Ha.

haha! those do seem to be frequently used words, Frances. As for "velvet" being 'in' right now, i swear if I hear someone (preteen/teen, mostly) use the word velvet I'm going to roll over and die with laughter!

haha! i'm right there with you. thankfully my little sister hasn't caught on quite yet. I think my final judgment on this book would come from the mouth of one of my english teachers, it's basically a literary potato chip--it sure is "fun" and "easy" to just read, but it really doesn't require thought. so, i basically agree with your stance, Anastasia. it is "very" delicious fluff.

I can see it now "and I touched his velvety cheek..." *all gooey of course* and I will definitely roll over laughing at the accidental insult to the guy's peach fuzz!

There is also a lot of the same words used to describe Edward's eyes (tawny, golden, etc) and his "marble chest" is mentioned more times than anyone would ever need to hear. She tends to use the same words over and over.

Also, one of my greatest personal fears is to be walking down the street or through a mall or public area and here a mother yell, "Renesmee, get back here!" I really hope that name dies with the end of the series.

I really don't like it. Its a horrible and complicated name. And Bella hated the nick name. I like Nessie. I knew a little girl who's nick name was that. Her real name was Vanessa of course though. But children and dogs both need short names. They relate better and for kids it kinda sucks if you can't say your own name right. I think I say Renesmee wrong and a bit different every time.

It's so sad...you know it's gonna happen. Some poor child is gonna have to grow up with the name Renesmee because her mom is obsessed with a book written by a woman who can't pick interesting names for her characters. Just wait...we'll have a bunch of kids named Brangelina or Bennifer, too (said sarcastically cause apparently that's what Meyer thinks is an imaginative way to name your child, and now all the little fangirls are going to believe that too). So sad.

Erin, Nools, Saved by Grace, I completely agree with ye all. I was outraged when I saw a review where it said the Twilight series are as good as LOTR! A book with a pathetic main character and vampires that aren't even cool compared to Tolkiens fantasy masterpiece? It's outrageous!

Twilight...yeah. Gotta admit, when I read it for the first time..was it 2 years ago? I loved it. Can't stand the books now, though. One of the things that most annoys me is the fact that they are SO hyped up, people are obsessed with the series. It doesn't deserve the hype!

I was completely freaked out by the whole Jacob-Renesmee thing in Breaking Dawn. How creepy is that? And Bella is pathetic.

I can deal with the Jacob-Renesmee thing because I read a lot of paranormal stuff and I mean any time a vamp and someone else gets together there is usually a big difference. Were's a lot of times are the same way too.

Erin, Nools, Saved by Grace, I completely agree with ye all. I was outraged when I saw a review where it said the Twilight series are as good as LOTR! A book with a pathetic main character and vampires that aren't even cool compared to Tolkiens fantasy masterpiece? It's outrageous!

Twilight...yeah. Gotta admit, when I read it for the first time..was it 2 years ago? I loved it. Can't stand the books now, though. One of the things that most annoys me is the fact that they are SO hyped up, people are obsessed with the series. It doesn't deserve the hype!

I was completely freaked out by the whole Jacob-Renesmee thing in Breaking Dawn. How creepy is that? And Bella is pathetic.

The point made about its not a book for kids to read: I disagree. I mean, yes, absolutely,there are some books that kids should not be allowed read. I read Wideacre A Novel when I was 11- the book has incest in it, and it seriously freaked me out. I don't think the Twilight books are inappropriate for kids. Well not for kids above around 8 anyway.

Roisu, my main concern with the Twilight series for younger girls is that they are holding this relationship as the ideal, when there clearly are some elements of an abusive relationship between Bella and Edward, and unhealthy obsession. Unlike the older audience, they are not able to see that this is going on and thus when they start dating, they might think it's okay and really romantic when their boyfriends start acting like Edward (i.e. being possessive) or when they act like Bella (i.e. changing their lives so it will fit in better with their boyfriends', go completely comatose when their boyfriends leave them). Also in book four they have sex like rabbits and the birth scene is incredibly gory and violent.

Oh...pardon me, Tahleen, I actually agree completely with ya in that respect! I'm sorry. Yeah, it would be horrible to think that another girl would aspire to be like Bella, or idealise the relationship she has with Edward. Bella's relationship with Edward is unhealthy at best, if not downright alarming. She basically has no life beyond him.

It wasn't you with whom I was disagreeing with. It was Saved By Grace. She said "you have to be careful what you put in your mind (meaning watch, listen to, read) because it WILL affect you. " I think thats true to an extent- like if horror books/films scare you, don't read/watch them. But I think it's important to read stuff thats outside your comfort zone sometimes, to challenge yourself and your beliefs. I think thats one of the great things about reading- it makes you question things.

My main concern with the books being written for young girls is that they will look to Bella as a role model when she is completely deplorable. She has no personality, she's completely self absorbed, and selfish doesn't begin to describe her. Her behavior in book 2 after they 'break up' is... I don't even know what would be a sufficient way to tell you how despicably she behaves...

I could probably deal with the other problems with the books if Bella had been written differently (better). Maybe not.

I agree with you guys about the fact that really young girls are going to read what these characters have going on and might think the unhealthy obsession (among other things (on both their parts)) are okay, or really romantic, in their own relationships. I really hope that parents talk to their kids about the things that happen in these books.

Oh Tahleen, just saw the list you posted about the 95 reasons to hate Twilight- its hilarious!!!!!

I'm really glad you guys agree with me in the psychological respect... I hope parents will talk to their daughters too Mandee.

And Roisu glad you though the list was funny! :)

I don't think its that big of a problem with the younger girls because everything in my life would make you think I wouldn't care about guys, but I am horrible with boy friends. I will bend over backwards to give them whatever I think they want. Nothing I read or saw made me this way, its just who I am. I know a lot of what you are like in a relationship goes back to your parents, but it didn't matter in many ways. I do owe my parents that fact that I'm very loyal, but the things that aren't always healthy all come back to me. But then I also just don't worry about this type of thing much. There are plenty of girls out there who are completely retarded about boys and whether its the media or something else I don't know if it will stop until we stop depending on relationships.

Ok so I just watched the movie and have to rant a little.
1. Do high school kids really talk like "bella, homegirl" bleh so glad I'm out of high school
2. I live in a tiny coastal town on the PNW, we do not have that kind of diversity...especially not all in one clique.
3.The LaPush scene was filmed at a beach near me. In the book they go on a sunny day, In the movie they go surfing in the rain. It is a gorgeous beach in the sun...why does it have to be raining?
4.The vampires are not incredibly attractive. They are supposed to be irresistible but I could definitively resist any of those actors.

Anna, I can answer one of your questions: for the LaPush scene it was actually supposed to be sunny but on the day the scheduled it rained instead, so they were forced to switch it up and create the van scene because its really expensive to reschedule shoots for films.
not that that makes up for some of the movie corniness, but at least now you know :)

ps- does anybody else who saw the movie notice how "Bella" always seems like she's having a seizure when she talks to "Edward"? (Instance 1: when they're in class and she goes "youre asking me about the weather" ::shiver:: "I don't like the cold" gag. Instance 2: "your eyes were black, now theyre gold" ::shiver::) UGH! it annoyed me to no end.. I'm like, WTF are you shaking and blinking for? I know she's supposed to be enamored with him but she just comes off as retarded, lol.

I thought Kristen Stewart was terrible. Which is pretty awful considering she didn't do her character justice... let's remember who her character is... a personality-less girl whose life revolves around a vampire.