Pride and Prejudice discussion

And vice-versa?

To me, Darcy´s first signs were given at Lucas Lodge, were Sir William Lucas almost pushed Darcy to dance with Lizzy and she refused: i could see the start of at least an interest, an "a-ha" moment.

For Lizzy, i would have to say that i was all the way from the 1st time they met, at the town ball, when the Bingley´s and him arrived at town - she was so persistently "careless" about his opinion on her, but she insisted on talking about it, about HIM, and the "i promise you never to dance with Mr. Darcy" was so giving away her interest in him.

For Mr Darcy... I think it was when Lizzy visited Jane in Netherfield when she was sick. Caroline critised her but I think Darcy felt in his inside a "wow, interesting stubborn young lady" :)
haha!!

About Lizzie... Humm... I have to meditate about it. I agree with Maria's words, but was Lizzy truly in love back then? I don't know, she felt hurt and that was her way to hide it... but did love exist back then? :)

I believe it began when he first saw her at Lucas Lodge

I don´t think that love existed back then - but i think that question was the very first signs of falling in love - not existing it already.....

I believe Darcy was interested from the beginning, when he refused to dance with anyone. He recognized that she was 'beneath' his interest, so refused to act upon the attraction. It wasn't until he kept running into her again and again, learning more about her personality and quirkiness, that he decided to break with tradition and pursue her.

As for Lizzie, I don't think she loved him until the letter. She was too busy hating him up to that point, and we all know how closely love and hate are connected. Once she realized how idiotic she'd been, she had no choice but to face her feelings.

I have to agree. Not love, perhaps, but Lizzy caught his eye and sparked his attention - and no woman had done that for Darcy so he was more than a bit confused.

IUHoosier wrote: "I believe Darcy was interested from the beginning, when he refused to dance with anyone. He recognized that she was 'beneath' his interest, so refused to act upon the attraction. It wasn't until ..."

Ah yes, after the letter, I have to agree :)

Yes, yes - she said that her eyes were brighten by the exercize, while the Bingley sisters were bashing her and her appearance.
And at that time he got to be with her a lot, in the same house and i remember the one time that he was taking a bath and saw her playing with his dog, on the yard and his face was like "she is no ordinary girl, not like the others, with all the airs and graces - refreshing".

For me Darcy fell in love with Lizzy when she visited Jane in Netherfeild.
I'm not quite sure when Elizabeth started having feelings for him, though.

I think that Darcy was always attracted to Elizabeth, though he tried to hide it. But I think he first loved her when she visited Jane at Netherfeild.

As for Elizabeth, I'm not so sure. I think that maybe it was after the letter, once she had cleared her head a bit, that the feeling of love started. And when she learned of what he'd done for Lydia and Wickham, then she truly loved him.

I think it's when Darcy and bigly are talking about how Darcy should dance (this is at their first assemble) and Darcy says Lizzy is tolerable. She walks past him and starts talking to Charlotte and laughing at him (that is in the BBC version at least). I think he starts to like her fine eyes and then he starts to like her character and spunk. It grows form there.

I think when she stood up to him at the ball and didn't hold back. I'm sure no one had ever dared speak to him in such manner. All of a sudden he saw a strong and intelligent woman who had dignity and class.

In my opinion the first time Darcy started seeing Elizabeth in a different light is when they were at the ball and they start to argue about poetry and how Elizabeth doesnt agree that poetry is an instrument of love. Elizabeth I also thinks become intigued with him at that point as well. I woouldn't say that thats when they fell in love becasue to me they didnt have that love at first sight type of love.

IUHoosier wrote: "I believe Darcy was interested from the beginning, when he refused to dance with anyone. He recognized that she was 'beneath' his interest, so refused to act upon the attraction. It wasn't until ..."

Well said. I agree. As for Elizabeth, she said herself that it was when she first saw Pemberly! Really, I think it was when she saw the change in Darcy, but his letter helped, too.

I think when Lizzie went to visit Jane on Netherfield park.when miss Bingley suggest to Lizzie they walk around the living room and Mr. Darcy looks at the corner of his eyes to see Lizzie:)

When he first admitted she had fine eyes.. :)

I don't think Lizzy loved Darcy after she read the letter. I believe she was upset with herself for being so wrong about him and Wickham. Lizzy prided herself on her observations and character assessment.
I think Lizzy's feelings turned towards love when she met Darcy at the Inn after receiving news of Lydia's elopement - this is when she realizes that because of this scandal he is lost to her. It is that loss that opens her eyes to how much her meant to her.
I think that is also when Darcy realizes the depth of his love for Elizabeth - he takes action to repair the damage Lydia and Wickham have done soley to save Lizzy from despair. However, one might argue he truly fell deeply in love with her when he saw her at Pemberley, a vision of 'what might have been' made flesh.
IUHoosier wrote: "I believe Darcy was interested from the beginning, when he refused to dance with anyone. He recognized that she was 'beneath' his interest, so refused to act upon the attraction. It wasn't until ..."

Sofia wrote: "For Mr Darcy... I think it was when Lizzy visited Jane in Netherfield when she was sick. ..." That was my opinion as well. By contrast, Lizzy was something vital and alive and thinking and acting for herself. Very unlike the other females that Darcy was surrounded with.

When he compliments her fine eyes. :) and in the movie 2009 version when he helps her up into he carriage :)

I haven't read the book, but I just watched the 1980 movie and it was really hard to tell when Mr. Darcy fell in love; he was as wooden as can be throughout the movie! But in the 2009 movie his first interest perked up the first time he saw her at Lucas Lodge. Then there were little things like when he helped her into the carriage, etc. that gave you clues as to how he was slowing falling in love.

I think for both of them, the interest starts at the town ball specially when they talked about poetry which in her opinion drives away love and she said that "Dancing" encourages affection,, but I guess they truly fell with each others when Elizabeth visited Jane in Netherfield park when she was ill.

Sofia wrote: "For Mr Darcy... I think it was when Lizzy visited Jane in Netherfield when she was sick. Caroline critised her but I think Darcy felt in his inside a "wow, interesting stubborn young lady" :)
haha!..."

Definitely agree with the part with Mr.Darcy!

As said above, it was at Lucas Lodge. From Chapter 6:

Occupied in observing Mr. Bingley's attentions to her sister, Elizabeth was far from suspecting that she was herself becoming an object of some interest in the eyes of his friend. Mr. Darcy had at first scarcely allowed her to be pretty; he had looked at her without admiration at the ball; and when they next met, he looked at her only to criticise. But no sooner had he made it clear to himself and his friends that she had hardly a good feature in her face, than he began to find it was rendered uncommonly intelligent by the beautiful expression of her dark eyes. To this discovery succeeded some others equally mortifying. Though he had detected with a critical eye more than one failure of perfect symmetry in her form, he was forced to acknowledge her figure to be light and pleasing; and in spite of his asserting that her manners were not those of the fashionable world, he was caught by their easy playfulness. Of this she was perfectly unaware; -- to her he was only the man who made himself agreeable nowhere, and who had not thought her handsome enough to dance with.

He began to wish to know more of her, and as a step towards conversing with her himself, attended to her conversation with others. His doing so drew her notice. It was at Sir William Lucas's, where a large party were assembled.

IUHoosier wrote: "As for Lizzie, I don't think she loved him until the letter. "

I agree with IUHoosier. George Wickham had been in Lizzy's head until she read Darcy's letter.

For Lizzie, after the letter. For Darcy, since Lucas Lodge.

For Darcy, I always felt it was at Lucas Lodge when he first became attracted to her, and then while Lizzie was staying with the Bingley's during Jane's illness he really started to fall for her and deeply admire her. Every chance he got to interact with her further increased his admiration and love for her.

There's a quote from Lizzie (I regret not marking it in my book!) where she admits that she is not in love with Wickham because she was able to think of him without anger or spite in her heart. When you look at her relationship/feelings concerning Darcy, that is all she feels. While Lizzie didn't come to understand Darcy's personality until later in the novel, I feel she always loved him in a small way from the start, but didn't truly fall in love with him until after she read his letter and saw Pemberley.

I wouldn't say he fell in love so quickly. Love is patient and something that grows. So I will say that she did spark his interest when refusing to dance with him and she was unnerved when he called her anything but handsome and was so caught up by her pride and prejudice-;)-towards him that her feelings were suppressed and she knew not of them. Later when visiting Jane, I believe him to be awestruck with her and admiring of her character and upon hearing of his familys dislike of her he maybe started to like her. Then when they were discussing Bingley and the manner of requests and friendships this sparked in Darcy a confirmation of a rare and interesting woman and his fondness grew.
Later his attraction became too confusing for him as he liked a woman of such "inferior" status that he began to show up everyday at the Collins and magically appear whenever Elizabeth went for a walk. By this point I would say he really really liked her and his attraction to her was so great that he felt he had to confess-in the worst way possible-and then after he wrote the letter and changed his countenance is around the time that I believe him to have truly fallen in love with her.

He was interested from the starting. It wasn't love but interest that gradually converted into love later.

It was sort of started at Lucas Lodge, when Elizabeth refused to dance with him- like he'd realized he'd made a mistake and wanted to "start things over" with this
"incredibly attractive" girl (no I'm not quoting from the book). When she came to nurse her sister was when his interset was really piqued. But I dont think he realised till after he left and saw what he was missing... *sigh*....

Elizabeth- kind of frustrated interest from the very start- if Darcy hadnt have been rude than she probably would never have fallen in love. All that thinking would have certainly made her fall in love with Darcy. Of course the book says she didnt' fall in love until she saw his house but then it was fashionable back then for women to be indifferent and shallow until they are actually married.

Kressel wrote: "As said above, it was at Lucas Lodge. From Chapter 6:

Occupied in observing Mr. Bingley's attentions to her sister, Elizabeth was far from suspecting that she was herself becoming an object of so..."

:)

I think Lizzie's love for Darcy was growing incrementally every time she ran into him. Why would she hate him so vehemently if there wasn't some spark of interest she was trying to smother? It wasn't Pemberley itself that added to her interest, but what happened there. It was there that she saw Darcy's true character and kind nature.Remember the last time she'd seen him he had insulted her and her family unapologetically. To see such a change would have been surprising. Not to mention all the conflicting information she had received from those who knew Darcy, saying he was a kind good man. The events at Pemberley were just one more thing to tip the scales in his favor. Her attraction might have started at the first assembly. Why would she be so incensed that Darcy slighted her? There may have been plenty of other men over the years to do the same, but this time it really affected her. Why? She must have been attracted to him already, even if it was only a little bit.

At the Lucas's Elizabeth realizes Darcy has been eavesdropping on her conversations and when she says 'Keep your breath to cool your porridge'; and I shall keep mine to swell my song.' I think he is smitten!

Interesting about Darcy. I think he was so used to keeping himself under regulation and in check that he glanced over her attractiveness because she was so beneath him. But then as he is acclimating to the area, and they are undoubtedly one of the better families, he allows himself to see her more of an equal and with her continued fire and liveliness, he is more and more intrigued and allows himself to recognize and enjoy the attraction...at the same time that he tries to keep it in check. I think she was attracted to him from the beginning but shut it down immediately when he hurt her pride so badly. Her love for him then was only able to transform from one emotion to another after her great humility in realizing how wrong she was in her assessment of him.

Jen wrote: "Interesting about Darcy. I think he was so used to keeping himself under regulation and in check that he glanced over her attractiveness because she was so beneath him. But then as he is acclimat..."

Yes. Exactly. :)

I think Darcy found it impressive that Lizzie had a backbone to stand up for herself in a witty way to him after she overheard what he said at the ball about her. So after that, I think is when Darcy started taking an interest. Also when Elizabeth visited her sister, Jane, when she was ill - I mean the way he just quickly stood up to greet her, then the little eye glances and then helping her up in the carriage when she was leaving. From then on his feelings grew.

For Elizabeth, I think she liked him when she first saw him but because of the way he was, she sort of pushed her feelings aside. Then at Mr Darcy's Aunt's house when Darcy said he loved her, she was more angry with him so that overpowered her emotions/feelings but at Mr Darcy's house, she studied the bust of his face deeply - I think she was torn between realizing that she too liked/loved him back and hating him because of what Wickham had said. Although trying to hide them, I think her feeling grew more from then on.

I think there was an initial attraction for both of them. Darcy was uncomfortable with this because of her low status so this caused him to deny it vehemently, and Elizabeth immediately replaced any initial attraction with a burning hatred after he insulted her. As for when they actually started to love each other, I think Darcy fell in love with her when she visited Jane in Netherfield. As far as love goes for Elizabeth, I think she started to care for him after the letter but didn't actually fall in love with him until she ran into him with her aunt and uncle.

When they first met (at the ball in Meryton) I don't think there was an attraction on either side. Darcy was too busy despising everyone apart from his own party to actually pay attention to her. He automatically rejected her without seeing much of her or talking to her.
But in the subsequent encounters, starting with the Lucas Lodge party, I believe they both feel the attraction or rather the chemistry, however they would act differently on it. Darcy indulges himself in it (probably because he thinks it's just a safe mild inclination), while Lizzy turns it into a passionate dislike because of the initial rejection.
Darcy falls in love more and more with each meeting and the more he tries to control it, the more it controls him. I think the starting point was Lucas Lodge and it reached its height at Rosings/Hunsford, where he sees her after so long.
For Lizzy, I think the starting point of actual love was at Pemberley, but not when seeing the estate (of course, she just jokingly alluded to that), but after witnessing the shocking change of attitude towards her and her friends, in a good way. There is a sentence in the book which to me is clear indication she fell in love at Pemberley. In their second or third meeting "She expected every moment that some of the gentlemen would enter the rooms. She wished, she feared that the master of the house might be among them; and whether she wished or feared it most, she could scarcely determine". If this is not the bewilderment of falling in love, I don't know what is.

I always thought that Darcy's interest and attraction began after Elizabeth laughed off his refusal to dance with her. That must have been a first for him!
His love grew, I believe, with each interaction thereafter, thus resulting in his 1st marriage proposal.
As for Elizabeth, her attraction and interest was always there, that's why she took offense at his refusal to dance. But her love blossomed and grew when she learned of Wickham's true character, and she started to see Darcy through new eyes.

Hmmm.... I think Darcy was interested right from the time he began to notice her, really notice her. Remember when he spent an evening trying to find fault? Well, he did, but he had to concede that he was attracted to her. THAT started the attraction.
Actual love? Perhaps it was a factor in his urging Charles - ahem, Bingley - to leave. He was afraid of his new feelings, something he'd never experienced in such magnitude (I doubt he's ever romantically loved someone so maddeningly within reach), and wanted out.
For Elizabeth, I think she had a crush on him as soon as he walked in at the assembly. What? He's a pretty handsome guy, as JA states herself! It would also explain how deeply her feelings were wounded by his insult. I mean, WHY DOES NO ONE IN P&P DRAW ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT LIZZY IS BEING ABNORMALLY TOUCHY ABOUT DARCY'S COMMENT?! He was just a stranger - and a rich one at that. Lizzy could've shrugged her shoulders, said, 'The rich have their rude quirks,' and avoided him thereafter. Lizzy's like that - she ignores insults. Makes me wonder why she didn't ignore THAT one...
But NOOOOOO she had to get all up in his face and stick it to him how rude he was!
So it's probably safe to assume that Elizabeth had at least a little crush on Darcy when he entered the room. That's probably why her feelings towards Darcy never tended to apathy - never in the book was she ever indifferent to him. When he was in the room she just HAD to mock him, and when he wasn't she'd either ignore his existence or mock him behind his back. BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT, dear reader, that was only the ATTRACTION on Lizzy's side.
The love was at Pemberley! Darcy's love finally became reciprocated when Lizzy's attraction to him (from the MA) and caring for his feelings (from the letter at Hunsford) sparked love. Remember when she was torn between longing and fear that Darcy would come back and find her there?
She wanted desperately to see him, only to fear that he'd hate her for being there when all he'd want was to forget her! (Of course that's not what happened, but this is her mind, peeps). Elizabeth was afraid of making HIM hate HER when she wanted to see him.

So basically what I"m saying is, the seed, the things they were too busy to notice, were planted in the early stages of their acquaintance. E was attracted to D from the very first time she saw him, but scorned that secret crush because he insulted her. Her ideal, shall we say, was shattered.
D was first attracted to E at Lucas Lodge, when she laughed off his request to dance as a joke. From then on Elizabeth's like-turned-dislike became outright hatred, and Darcy's apathy-turned-attraction became love. Seeing her match wits with Caroline Bingley, teasing him relentlessly, stand up for herself with a backbone of iron that he admired - all of this contributed to his love.
The Disastrous Hunsford Proposal marked a turning-point in their love story. Elizabeth began to care for him a bit after reading his letter, and Darcy's love became less selfish once he realized what his mistake was. The Pemberley Run-In was another integral point, making it clear to the reader how Elizabeth's admiration of Darcy had grown. Paired with her attraction, that became love.
The hint is when she desperately wants to see him, wishes for him to come, but is at the same time mortally afraid of that very thing! She doesn't want his peace to be disturbed, she doesn't want him to hate her for being there as a reminder, but she does long to see him again.
For good old Darcy, the hint was his courtesy to those he would probably have scorned back in Meryton: her aunt and uncle.
And there we go I'm rambling again....