The Sword and Laser discussion

Ok, not to mislead with my topic, I finished Elantris yesterday and I enjoyed the read.

Not really any specific spoilers below, but understand I am speaking to the book as a whole.

Reading through the forums on Elantris I am finding that I am definitely outmatched with this groups ability to critically read and analyse. So consider my musing here as a very humble critique because I usually read and just judge enjoyment. I rarely analyse things like writing style, gender identity, political and religious comparisons etc. Perhaps being part of this group will develop me as a reader though.

What I can say having enjoyed the read is I find myself irritated afterwords when an author does what I consider an Epic Failing.

Based on the story alone I got the impression that the author wanted this world to be Epic. He put time and effort into Aons, even an appendix of them with illustrations. He delved into the back story of Elantrians only enough to grab my interest, making me want more, but then not quench the thirst. And all the while keeping the scope of the book in a time frame of what less than a year?

The bottom line is a 1000+ page book (according to the e-reader copy) isn't a short story, so he crafted a world, gathered my interest, but in the end delivered a feeling like I had just watched only a first episode of a very long series.

This feeling I have gotten many times if you ever read a Darkover novel by Bradley I would get the same feeling. However Bradey delivers the Epic, Elantris doesnt.

Epic writing in my humble opinion I find in two forms in Sci-Fi perhaps there are others.

Form 1 - An Epic tale all connected from beginning to end (ala Tolkein (LOTR) , Eddings (Belgariad) ).

Form 2 - An Epic world or universe (ala Bradley (Darkover) or McCaffrey (Pern) ) .

In both cases Elantris isn't Epic. And yet I can't understand why the Author would go on to other writing and not just continue to develop this world, as in Form 2. I mean I can handle short jaunts, into characters, and small stories and goals, but if the author never comes back to this one then, as a reader investing time in things like Aons and their specific names, understanding the politics, religions, and governments in conflict. Seems like a waste of time and causes me irritation.

What would have taken away my irritation is if I had known before hand that their where no sequels, then I would have glossed over more and just read it like a weak romance novel with only one hookup at the end.

Richard

Judging by the release dates, it seems like he was sidetracked by the Mistborn series which also has a very detailed magic system. But there does seem to be rumors that he's going to expand on the world of Elantris. I'm not sure how he'll find the time with all the other series he's writing, he must be quite prolific, or he has a team of ghost writers.

I think I understand what you mean. The world seemed very carefully crafted and additional things like the pronounciation guide on the Elantris Portal web page also make it seem like he put a lot of thought into the world.

I liked the story a lot, but that was actually partly because it didn't seem epic. It was still kind of light weight, a bit of quirky, but not really with the depth you somehow feel with lots of other fantasy books. In a way it seemed more like a regular stand-alone story than epic fantasy.

Huh. Very hard to put this into words. I don't know how hard it would be to write a sequel but I guess it would be do-able. I mean just because the story about the rise of Elantris has been told, it doesn't mean that the rest of the world doesn't offer some potential for continuing.

Yeah I am not good at wording it but this is my point about two kinds of Epic. In this case I wouldn't necessarily want a sequel about this time frame or these characters but how about a book about the fall of Elantris (As in what caused the chasam?) or maybe its original creation? Different characters, different times, etc but same world, magics, etc that he spent so much time on, each could be stand alone like this one.

That is the way of a lot of the Darkover novels they each could stand alone, but when you read a new one, you feel excited to learn something new, but comfortable because you already invested time in understanding the lore, magic, etc of that world.

The chasm was caused by an earthquake IIRC, nothing sinister. The planned sequel for Elantris is being set in the not terribly distant future, I think it's supposed to be Raoden and Sarene's child as the protagonist. Of course that's all based on speculation and since Sanderson hasn't even got in on his schedule yet who knows what may change.

First of all, never apologize for your perceived limitations. We all just like to read and talk about it, and we all come from different perspectives. Just don't be a troll, and we will all want to hear what you think.

Second of all, I agree with you for one reason - the aons. I read the print book and the appendix with all these beautiful symbols really floored me. He put all this thought and energy into the magic system (something which he claims as his best skill) but then they were so minor to the story. Important to the plot but hardly demonstrated, is really what I mean. That's the opposite of what I would have expected, or even what I would like.

Would more magic = more epic?

The classical definition between epic fantasy, and sword and sorcery is the scale of the conflict. Epic fantasy happens to worlds and nations i.e. we need to stop the dark overlord enslaving mankind, sword and sorcery is a more local conflict i.e. I need to save my family from this clan of goblins.

In terms of Elantris it’s definitely epic, and I personally love the world building that Sanderson did. I must admit I wasn’t a fan of the Aeons magic system in and of itself, but as you said they don’t really affect the story much. But because he added so much depth to them it really gave me a better understanding of what it meant to loose that system. Along with the hunger/pain it really sucked to be an Elantrian!

I do think Sanderson has a habit of over building his worlds, but I don't think it’s a detriment to his writing, I think it’s a benefit. The real world is a complicated place full of stuff happening to lots of people; the more a fantasy writer can give me that kind of depth (or at least the illusion of that kind of depth) the happier I am. :)

Kieran wrote: "...I do think Sanderson has a habit of over building his worlds..."

Sanderson actually has stated a couple reasons for this. One is that he likes to have a system for Why the magic system exists. Rather than just flinging around power out of nothing, he wants a robust rules based system.

Also in Q&As he has stated that his worlds are in the same "Cosmere" (univerese). They are all linked. The details are not needed to read his books but they all weave together in a grand way <------EPIC!!

A Cosmere overview can be found here:
SPOILERS for Mistborn 3: Hero of Ages & Way of Kings
http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/...

In a 2010 blog post Sanderson stated that Elantris 2 is planned to be written after Stormlight Archive 3(Way of Kings series)

Sandersons magic systems are one of the main things that I like about his books and I can't wait for more!

Wow thanks roosterSause this takes away or at least holds at bay my irritation after a great read. Looks like I'll have to read more Sanderson.

roosterSause wrote: "Kieran wrote: "...I do think Sanderson has a habit of over building his worlds..."

Sanderson actually has stated a couple reasons for this. One is that he likes to have a system for Why the magic ..."

And here I was about to comment how refreshing it was to read a self-contained book that dabbled in epic fantasy but didn't require a huge reading commitment to really get into :P

Regarding the ending:

(view spoiler)[The end suggests to me that Sanderson always intended to do more, with the revelations that there is more than one way to access the Dor and setting up the Wyrn as the major villain. (hide spoiler)]