The History Book Club discussion

I am curious about the Queen's relationship with the "Iron Lady", Margaret Thatcher. Since we have just started reading your book,we have not come to that time period, so maybe you can give us a hint.

Debra wrote: "Yes, thanks. I have asked two. One: Sally, did you find that the Queen seemed to enjoy chatting with you (strangers, writers in general) or did she seem to find it a chore? Two: Have you come acros..."

I do think she genuinely enjoys chatting with strangers--although she doesn't chat with the royal writers except on very specific occasions such as the recent reception she gave at Buckingham Palace for journalists and authors; I was invited to that, but alas, coudln't get over to London. When she was growing up her mother taught her that if she found someone boring it was her fault. Of course she encounters boring people, but she is very deft at dealing with awkward or difficult situations. And she often finds amusement when things go slightly awry, or when someone makes an unexpected comment. I have a number of examples of this in my book.
As for being separated from her children, she addressed that in some of the letters to her mother I quote in the book, but otherwise she has kept such feelings to herself.

Did the Queen mention the family's feelings about the late Duke of Windsor?.....or is that still a subject that is too sensitive.

Bentley wrote: "Welcome back Sally; glad to see you on again.

Curious about Prince Phillip and the Queen's relationship. From what you observed - how well do they complement each other; how has their marriage e..."

I think when you read the book you will see that it is anything but a marriage of convenience. It was a real love match, and they compelement each other extremely well, especially in the way they make decisions together. I have some fascinating insights from various senior palace officials who have dealt with both of them. They are both strong personalities--as one of their cousins said, "They aren't Darby and Joan"--but they are united in their commitment to service and hard work, even now, when both are long past retirement ageg.

Jill wrote: "Did the Queen mention the family's feelings about the late Duke of Windsor?.....or is that still a subject that is too sensitive."

The Queen hasn't spoken about her feelings publicly, but I have descriptions in the book of her rapprochement with the Duke of Windsor, her last visit with him before he died, and how solicitious she was of the Duchess of Windsor during his funeral. She also gave the Duchess a lovely funeral at St. George's Chapel in Windsor Castle, and was especially thoughtful toward the Duchess's two faithful servants, who got the best seats in the chapel.

Jill wrote: "I am curious about the Queen's relationship with the "Iron Lady", Margaret Thatcher. Since we have just started reading your book,we have not come to that time period, so maybe you can give us a hint."

Well, I don't want to spoil it for you, but I have quite a bit about their relationship, which was much more nuanced than popularly beleived. MT was not easy, but the two women had great respect for each other. And as you'll see in the book, the Queen showed that respect in a meaningful way after MT was ousted by her Tory colleagues. The Queen Mother, by the way, adored Margaret Thatcher.

Did she mention anything about the film "The Queen" and Dame Helen Mirren's portrayal of her?

Jill wrote: "Did she mention anything about the film "The Queen" and Dame Helen Mirren's portrayal of her?"

Again, this is not something that the Queen would speak about publicly. However, nearly everyone I spoke to had an opinion about the film, and I discuss it in various ways in the book. I had fascinating interviews with Helen Mirren (who came for tea!), and screenwriter Peter Morgan. But my information about the Queen's view of the film came from close friends and family who discussed it with her.

Sally wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Question: Sally, when you observed Prince Phillip with the Queen; what did you pick up on their relationship together and with each other? Their marriage has endured for sure."

Ye..."

Understood; they obviously have worked out an arrangement after all of these years together.

Sally wrote: "Debra wrote: "Yes, thanks. I have asked two. One: Sally, did you find that the Queen seemed to enjoy chatting with you (strangers, writers in general) or did she seem to find it a chore? Two: Have ..."

Sally, I am enjoying the book and have purposely kept myself from reading the ARC until we started the discussion a few days ago. I wanted to have the suspense of reading and discussing it for the first time with the group. I am learning so much about the dynamics of the family itself and even more so about the Queen especially when she is not in the public eye. For one thing, I never ever saw her waving her hands around like an Italian (lol).

In some ways even though she is surrounded by many; she is very much alone. I am glad to see that she was able to let her hair down when she was young and danced the night away and that she still enjoys relaxing with her family and her close friends.

I especially enjoyed the questions that your husband was brave or brazen enough to ask the Queen in your presence about her alleged racing bets . I think she rather enjoyed the banter; but I wonder how you felt when he asked those questions - you must have wanted at that point in time to disappear (lol).

Sally wrote: "Jill wrote: "Did she mention anything about the film "The Queen" and Dame Helen Mirren's portrayal of her?"

Again, this is not something that the Queen would speak about publicly. However, nearly ..."

Yes, Helen Mirren - now that must have been interesting. What was the reason for her declining in 1996 the appointment as a Commander of the order (CBE). I know in 2003 she accepted Dame Commander of the Order of the British Empire (DBE). She seemed to be respectful and kind to the Queen in her academy award acceptance speech of 2007. Had she just changed her political views or was it something else?

Sally wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Welcome back Sally; glad to see you on again.

Curious about Prince Phillip and the Queen's relationship. From what you observed - how well do they complement each other; how has ..."

Yes, I agree after reading the first four chapters that they had a real romantic alliance; but there have been tensions between them caused in part by the Queen mother and probably by Phillip himself and his personality traits. He did have a reputation as a ladies man. Is that fact or fiction?

I have no doubt that Elizabeth loved him very much and was quite taken with him right from the start.

Bentley wrote: "Sally wrote: "Debra wrote: "Yes, thanks. I have asked two. One: Sally, did you find that the Queen seemed to enjoy chatting with you (strangers, writers in general) or did she seem to find it a cho..."

Bentley wrote: "Sally wrote: "Debra wrote: "Yes, thanks. I have asked two. One: Sally, did you find that the Queen seemed to enjoy chatting with you (strangers, writers in general) or did she seem to find it a cho..."

I am delighted by your early reaction. Actually I was amused by my husband's indiscretion, especially when it prompted such a lively exchange. Only later when interviewing several senior officials did I understand the skill she used that day in deflecting the question.
I've enjoyed answering questions this evening, but am afraid I'm going to have to sign off now. My book promotion resumes tomorrow, and then I'll be on the road for more than three weeks. Will try to check in from time to time to answer questions.

Sally wrote: "Jill wrote: "Did the Queen mention the family's feelings about the late Duke of Windsor?.....or is that still a subject that is too sensitive."

The Queen hasn't spoken about her feelings publicly,..."

That was very thoughtful and very respectful of both her late uncle and the Duchess. Admirable really; I think the Queen is a still water which runs deep.

I was reading along last night - finally got to really get into the book - and I came upon the phrase "grace-and-favor" in regards to the Kensington Palace apartment that the Dowager Marchioness of MIlford Haven lived in. What is a "grace-and-favor" apartment? (page 27)

Sally thank you for looking in on us and answering our questions. We will have additional questions as we read further. All the best for a great road trip. I am sure everybody will love the book as much as the HBC members do. Look forward to the next time you can pop in.

I'm really enjoying the book! You've got so many quotes and provide so much information to fill in what may be the gaps in people's knowledge of the Royal Family that I have to wonder - how do you decide what to leave out? Are there places where you make that call, or is it usually an editor saying something has to be cut?

I especially wonder because there isn't any mention in the book of whether Princess Margaret received the same thorough education that Queen Elizabeth received. I got the impression that the Eton tutor, Sir Henry Marten, only worked with Queen Elizabeth, and you mention specifically that George VI made sure Queen Elizabeth was prepared to rule in the way he was not prepared, but there is no mention of Princess Margaret also being prepared at the same time or with the same thoroughness. It seems strange to me - King George VI was second in line to the throne - wouldn't he make sure Princess Margaret was also similarly prepared 'just in case?' Or would it be unseemly to entertain such a possibility?

Thanks so much for joining us on this discussion - it is a rare privilege!

Hi Sally, just wanted to say I am really enjoying your book so far. Bentley had to stop me from reading too far into the text before our series of discussions is over! It really is an engaging and fascinating read.

I echo what Stacy said above. I wanted to read a little ahead over the winter break from college, and it was so fascinating I nearly finished it!

Question - After a lengthy period of researching and writing do you ever take a slight break to read a personal book that has nothing to do with your subject just to refresh yourself?

Stacy and Virginia - do you have some questions for Sally?

Hi Sally:

Could you share any insights on why Elizabeth decided not to give the same responsibilities and title to Philip as a "Prince Consort" like Victoria did for Albert?

Was Prince Charles involved in any of your meetings/contacts while preparing the book?

Stacy | 3 comments Hi Sally:

In Chapter 4, you quote Canon John Andrew as saying that it's the consecration in the Coronation that makes Queen Elizabeth II the Queen, not the crowning. He also stated that she cannot abdicate, indicating the consecration prevents her from doing so. If a monarch becomes ill to the point of not being able to carry out his or her duties, how is that handled? Thanks!

Thanks for that question, Stacy. I also had that question as posted on the first week reading thread. Is that called "abdication"? Or what if, as has been talked about for the last few years, the Queen decides to "step aside" in favor of the heir, Prince Charles....is that abdication? (BTW,I don't think that will ever happen).

In relation to Stacy and Jill's questions, has this situation occurred before where a reigning monarch is asked to step aside in favor of their child? Meaning, is there any kind of precedent for this type of thing?

Thank you for the advanced copy of the book and for taking time to chat with us about it.

I'm curious as to why references to The Queen movie are made in the book and why Helen Mirren's comments about her role are also included. Many of us who read numerous biographies and other works of history have never seen this approach used before. How do you think that they add knowledge about Elizabeth to the reader and why did you feel the need to include them when you had so many primary resources that you had consulted?

Thanks, again, for spending time with us.

Hello Sally, I know that you are busy on your tour but when you get back to us, I think that you will see some questions ahead on mine which are new questions which I hope you will have time to respond to.

It is terrific that you are joining us iteratively as we read your wonderful book.

I have a question regarding the dynamics between Queen Elizabeth and Jackie Kennedy.

Question: Could you reflect and discuss with us what caused Jackie Kennedy to reflect that she thought the Queen resented her. Do you that think that impression was well founded or far fetched. Why would the Queen resent Jackie? Did the Queen believe that Jackie was frivolous because she was so into fashion and hair styles or did Jackie completely misread the Queen's impressions and intentions. Jackie was rather young and girlish.

Question regarding Princess Margaret:

In the interviews that you had; did you find anyone who discussed the relationship that Princess Margaret had with the Queen before the Townsend "forced decision" and the relationship that she had afterwards. Did what the Queen did or not do change the sisterly relationship that they once had and dampen it? Did the Queen in later years grow to detest what she did to her sister and the life that Margaret was forced to live and what she was forced to give up. That kind of trauma, I think would change anybody and for the worse. I often wondered if subconsciously Margaret was acting out against the establishment, the government, her family, and her sister with her antics - basically saying what the heck can you do now?

I noticed that when Lord Home was appointed PM, he renounced his peerage.....has that become a requirement for modern Prime Ministers, since many PMs in the past were of the peerage?

I have a question about the documentary, Royal Family. It does not seem to be available anywhere that I can find online - did you have access to the entire documentary for this book? Do you think it will ever be available "on DVD?"

Sally, did you get any impressions about the relationships among members of the Queen's household and among her ladies in waiting? For example, do you know if any of the staff were jealous of Bobo MacDonald's closeness to the Queen?

Great book. Once I started I couldn't put it down. You mention, "It was understood that those employed by the royal family would regard their work as confidential." Is this still just an assumption or is there any confidentiality agreement made with employees either verbal or written? Thanks.

Sally,
Thank you so much for your wonderful book and for the so many days and hours you put into producing it...so that folks like us could taste and enjoy it. A great look into the lives of the Royalty, and you have a wonderful balance between public events and personal conversations, actions, and attitudes which bring life to the events we are following. LC

Did you broach the subject of Princess Diana with the Queen or was it a subject that was better left unsaid?

Sally, we do hope that you pop back in soon (as soon as your tour winds down). There are a lot of new questions for you since post 63.

Becky wrote: "I was reading along last night - finally got to really get into the book - and I came upon the phrase "grace-and-favor" in regards to the Kensington Palace apartment that the Dowager Marchioness of..."

It is essentially an apartment or home owned by the sovereign and provided either rent free or at a nominal rent

Cheryl wrote: "I'm really enjoying the book! You've got so many quotes and provide so much information to fill in what may be the gaps in people's knowledge of the Royal Family that I have to wonder - how do you ..."

At one point Margaret asked if she too might be tutored by Sir Henry Marten but was told that it was not necessary. I could find no explanation for why this was so. That said, Margaret received the same tutoring as her sister from Crawfie and Toni de Bellaigue. The essential difference was Elizabeth's more thorough grounding in the British consititution and study of history. You make a good point, however, about the perils of giving the second in line short shrift. Today we are seeing Prince Harry assigned to the same wise man and mentor, Sir David Manning, as Prince William (and now Kate), which shows that the royal household is mindful of the need to keep the third in line under its tutelage.

Stacy wrote: "Hi Sally, just wanted to say I am really enjoying your book so far. Bentley had to stop me from reading too far into the text before our series of discussions is over! It really is an engaging and ..."

Thank you so much

Virginia wrote: "I echo what Stacy said above. I wanted to read a little ahead over the winter break from college, and it was so fascinating I nearly finished it!"

Delighted as well that you have enjoyed ETQ so much.

Sally....so glad you could join us and hope you have recovered from your tour!!!
As you can see, there are many questions that the readers have for you. I hope you have the time to answer a few. We have almost completed the group read of the book and all have enjoyed it immensely.

Mark wrote: "Question - After a lengthy period of researching and writing do you ever take a slight break to read a personal book that has nothing to do with your subject just to refresh yourself?"

I try to read great fiction while I am writing, to be inspired by beautiful writing, and in some cases, by the way knowledge of history has infused works of fiction. Some of the books I read while writing ETQ were Middlemarch (still not finished!), State of Wonder, and Wolf Hall.

Bryan wrote: "Hi Sally:

Could you share any insights on why Elizabeth decided not to give the same responsibilities and title to Philip as a "Prince Consort" like Victoria did for Albert?"

Times had changed, and the role of the monarch had been curtailed. Giving Philip any role in the Queen's governmental responsibilities was never possible, so he had to find a balance between serving her as a consort, lowercase "c" and finding a parallel role of his own--all of which he has done extremely well, in my judgment.

Jill wrote: "Was Prince Charles involved in any of your meetings/contacts while preparing the book?"

Since the 1994 biography by Jonathan Dimbleby, to whom Charles spoke at length and probably too candidly, he has been reluctant to say much about his parents. However, I was fortunate to speak to a number of people close to the prince who were knowledgeable and isightful not only about his own role, but about his relationship with his parents. I was also lucky to be invited to a number of receptions and dinners given by the Prince of Wales Foundation in London when I was able to have conversations with Charles and Camilla, and get a feel for the way they conduct themselves in such settings. It was quite magical to have dinner in the Picture Gallery at Buckingham Palace, seated at tables decorated with George III silver gilt centerpieces and candelabra, and to attend two concerts in the white and gold ballroom!

Stacy wrote: "Stacy | 3 comments Hi Sally:

In Chapter 4, you quote Canon John Andrew as saying that it's the consecration in the Coronation that makes Queen Elizabeth II the Queen, not the crowning. He also sta..."

In the event of illness, the Prince of Wales would assume the duties of Prince Regent, much as future King George IV did for George III during his periods of madness. The Queen discussed this possibility with her cousin Margaret Rhodes, who told me that the Queen said her commitment to serve would only be affected if she had a stroke or was afflicted with Alzheimers, for example. But she would not abdicate, she would only step aside.

Jill wrote: "Thanks for that question, Stacy. I also had that question as posted on the first week reading thread. Is that called "abdication"? Or what if, as has been talked about for the last few years, the Q..."

see previous answer. It would only be abdication if she literally stepped down as Edward VIII did.

What a wonderful experience that must have been. I feel that Prince Charles has found his "niche" now, in both his personal and professional life.

Virginia wrote: "In relation to Stacy and Jill's questions, has this situation occurred before where a reigning monarch is asked to step aside in favor of their child? Meaning, is there any kind of precedent for t..."

again, see previous answer. In the last chapter of the book, I discuss the pitfalls of stepping down in favor of the Prince of Wales, and also the difficulties of skipping a generation to enable William to be king instead of his father.

I'm sorry that Bentley cannot join us but he is currently traveling in the Far East and has little or no connectivity. He will be disappointed to have missed you.

Sera wrote: "Thank you for the advanced copy of the book and for taking time to chat with us about it.

I'm curious as to why references to The Queen movie are made in the book and why Helen Mirren's comments..."

The Queen film was a genuine cultural phenomenon, and in an odd sort of way, Helen Mirren's portrayal became conflated in the popular imagination with the real Queen. Everyone I spoke to for the book had something to say about the film, and in my talks around the country since the book's publication, I have been questioned many times about the differences between the film and reality. I felt that exploring the depiction of the Queen in a variety of ways--in portraits, works of fiction, film,and satire such as Spitting Image--was an important part of the story. I also found Peter Morgan, the screenwriter of the Queen, and Helen Mirren, to be insightful and gifted observers who had thought a great deal about her character and personality. However, as I have often said to audiences at my talks, The Queen film was a snapshot of one of Elizabeth's most difficult weeks, while my book is a portrait of her life in the round.