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Julie wrote: "Hi Di. Welcome!
I read Devil in the White City and liked it for the most part. There were just a few parts that got a little uninteresting. I have Unbroken on my list to read someday. I keep hearin..."

Isaac's Storm: A Man, a Time, and the Deadliest Hurricane in History is wonderful. One of the few books I've reread in the last decade.

I read that book when we first moved back to Texas and liked it very much. Two years ago we were in Galveston & i tried to locate some of the sites mentioned. There are some markings but not much. It was a good reminder of the book, though.

deb

Back to the topic of this thread.

Amazon I guess noticed that I was searching for books on FDR. They recommended to me.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt~Alan Brinkley

FDR~Jean Edward Smith

Franklin Delano Roosevelt~Roy Jenkins

Being an FDR nut, I would read all but the last book as I don't care for this series at all. I've read 2 or 3 books in the series and found them to be dull and dry.

You know, with my pathetic knowledge of history, I had no idea that FDR was paralyzed!

I am half way done with this week's reading.

Well, he did try to hide it. There are very few pictures of him in a wheelchair.

And of course the press was not like it is today.

And if I recall correctly, you live in NY. Then you MUST go to the FDR house and museum in Hyde Park, NY.
http://www.nps.gov/hofr/index.htm

When you go, you can also visit the Vanderbuilt mansion.
http://www.nps.gov/vama/index.htm
The grounds are so beautiful. It's right on the Hudson river. They have picnic tables and also a small restaurant.

Also Eleanor's famous Val Kill cottage which is also near by. http://www.nps.gov/elro/index.htm

I've been there maybe a half dozen times and still I can't wait to go back.

When I read the terrific book, The Defining Moment: FDR's Hundred Days and the Triumph of Hope~Jonathan Alter It gives one the sense that it was destiny somehow that he be president. The right man and the right time for us.

Have no fear, my mission is clear, I will turn you into a FDR & Eleanor groupie yet !
:)

I live in ohio

Julie wrote: "I live in ohio"
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:( Great, now I have to figure out how to get you to move to NY or at least visit.

Hehe. I can't do that. You just told me in that other thread that we have great library system here. ;-)

Julie wrote: "Hehe. I can't do that. You just told me in that other thread that we have great library system here. ;-)"
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Drat. Foiled again.

Chapter 5

Here is a link to the text of FDR's inaugural speech.

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5057/

Here is the Youtube of the event.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX_v0z...

Seriously, how cool is it that with a click we can see something like this on our home computers.

Chapter 5

page 137

"450,000 Americans wrote to their new president in his first week."

At the FDR museum in Hyde Park there is a wall with many letters and short notes that were sent to FDR. It's quite moving to read these touching notes.

Page 143
Re: Harry Morgenthau Jr.

FYI --His son Robert M. Morgenthau was the District Attorney of New York County from 1975 to 2009

P 136
Re: Fireside chats
Kennedy doesn't mention it, however, FDR was the first to realize the power of the new invention radio. He practiced to have his voice come across well. And by all accounts he succeeded brilliantly.

Here are some book that contain the 31 chats.

FDR's Fireside Chats
FDR's Fireside Chats
Fireside Chats

I don't know about you, but this book is certainly expanding my vocabulary ! I sit with a dictionary as I read.

Alias Reader wrote: "Chapter 5

page 137

"450,000 Americans wrote to their new president in his first week."..."

For some random (to us) reason, in our shed we found a huge bound book of New York Times editions for November 1-15, 1932. For some other random reason, we are only now taking the time to study it, as opposed to just glancing at bits. Each day we turn to another page, keeping it open until we next think to turn it. (Frankly, the reason we didn't do this earlier, i suspect, is because we never have the free space. The book is 23"x18"!)

ANYway, to tie it into the book. The week of the presidential election FDR's face was printed, filling the entire page. The notation at the bottom mentioned the photo came from the election staff but was not retouched. I found that interesting. And, naturally, had to share.

Alias is a huge fan of the Roosevelts. When we were in NYC in '10, she encouraged our visit to Hyde Park and we're glad we went. I am sure we would have skipped the Vanderbilt mansion & probably ValKill and even Top Cottage had it not been for her. Frankly, due to the restful day visiting Top Cottage and lingering on the porch as the guide spoke was a highlight.

deb, still grateful, Alias

You're very welcome, Deb. Glad you enjoyed it.

It's so very lovely in Hyde Park.

You paid me back by telling me about Teddy Roosevelt's home right here in NYC. I never knew about it, and nobody I've told has either.

I plan to go again once the renovations are done. Which I hope is soon.

I'm tickled to be reminded of that quid pro quo, Alias. It interests me how often i think back to TR's home. Part of it is for the presidential connection but another part is about the decor, planning and facts about a home of that era. Double header!

My absolute favorite room at Hyde Park was that long, book-filled living room/library. Visitors can only stand at the door where the small series of stairs are but i stood there for over 15 minutes, trying to soak in details. I could live there.

Btw, i found this link with photos of rooms & such at Hyde Park. http://travelphotobase.com/s/NYHH.HTM

Madrano wrote:Btw, i found this link with photos of rooms & such at Hyde Park. http://travelphotobase.com/s/NYHH.HTM "
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What a great website ! I really like how when you pass your mouse cursors over a picture a larger size of it automatically pops up. It makes the website very user friendly.

I've saved the link to my favorites. Thanks !

By the way, I would have no problem living there or at the Vanderbilt mansion either ! As the lotto commercial say, a dollar and a dream. :)

P. 135
"Roosevelt's and hoovers minions "had forgotten to be republicans or democrats" Moley commented. "we were just a bunch of men trying to save the banking system"
Ever wish that kind of thing happened more often? :-) it is funny though how he refused to help Hoover when asked but waited until he was in office to do anything so he could take all the credit! Excuse my typing...I don't know how to go back and fix things on my iPod and the auto-capitalizing seems to be random.

The text of the Fireside Chats is also here:
http://www.mhric.org/fdr/fdr.html

So what are your favorite books about FDR?

My number one book is
The Defining Moment: FDR's Hundred Days and the Triumph of Hope~Jonathan Alter

After that I also enjoyed

No ordinary time : Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt : the home front in World War II~Doris Kearns Goodwin

As for Eleanor I enjoyed
Our Eleanor: A Scrapbook Look at Eleanor Roosevelt's Remarkable Life~Candace Fleming
It has really interesting photos.

I have Eleanor's autobiography on my DL list for this year.

Several of my other friends have read the second one also.
Have you read FDR by Jean Edward Smith? Its highly rated but LOOONG.
I haven't read much about the presidents but I think FDR would be one of the more interesting ones. He wsa president during a time period that interests me for one thing...

No, I haven't read the Jean Smith book, though it is on my list.

I do want to read a bio of each president. I got off to a bad start this year with a book on Washington that I didn't like and didn't finish. I guess all of January has been of a slog for me reading wise. I can't seem to read a book that really grabs me. I hope February turns that all around for me.

I agree with you. I think that is one reason I like reading about FDR. That period in history I find fascinating.

Julie wrote:it is funny though how he refused to help Hoover when asked but waited until he was in office to do anything so he could take all the credit!
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It's also interesting to learn of the large lag time (March) that we used to have before the new president was sworn in. I think January is makes much more sense. Two months gives the new president time to organize and yet we don't have too long with a lame duck president. And it helps with the situation that you described with Hoover and FDR.

Yeah I didn't know it used to be that way either. I agree it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Julie wrote: "Yeah I didn't know it used to be that way either. I agree it doesn't make a whole lot of sense."
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I just learned this a few years ago from some book I was reading.

Started to read Chapter 6

I found the section on "old poverty" interesting. Without any safety net (SS) the elderly and others who were unable to work regardless of the Depression were in dire straits.

It's also sad to read that many people blamed the moral fiber of the people out of work. And the people who were destitute also blamed themselves, when there clearly was no work to be found. It's bad enough to be in financial straits without that added pressure.

I was going to start reading tonight but I am sick and not up to using any brain cells or energy. I think that same kind of blame is still around regarding the poor/unemployed.

Julie wrote: "I was going to start reading tonight but I am sick and not up to using any brain cells or energy. I think that same kind of blame is still around regarding the poor/unemployed."
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I hope you are feeling better soon, Julie. I'm battling a cold myself. It's in that am I going to get it or not stage.

Yes, regarding poor/unemployed. Unfortunately, I have first hand experience.

Get Well thoughts to both of you. I hope whatever you have is mild & quickly overcome.

Thanks, Deb.

Thanks. I called in sick to work today for the first time on many many years!

How high did the unemployment rate get in the last several years? I am trying to remember for the sake of comparison.

Julie wrote: "How high did the unemployment rate get in the last several years? I am trying to remember for the sake of comparison."

10% October/2009
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS140...

The rate peaked at about 25 percent in 1933.



I would note some differences. Back then usually only man of the house worked. Now most families have more than one wage earner. Also we now have unemployment insurance. Also bank insurance (FDIC), so ones savings have not disappeared.

These govt. link gives the numbers from 1920-2010
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A010471...




Good article to go with above graph
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/201...

Thanks for the info. I was being lazy. :-)
The first graph isn't showing up though.

I think Ohio got a little higher than 10%...we were one of the bad states. I knew it wasn't even close to 25% but I like to compare the numbers with something I know personally. :-) The book said it averaged 17% (or 17.1?) for the whole decade of the Great Depression! It was interesting how they said that at the beginning, companies purposely got rid of people they knew to be second wage earners (married women). Can you imagine if they admitted to doing that on purpose nowadays? (And there is no guarantee the man is the main earner now anyway!)

That last article is interesting. I noticed from the two graphs that the recessions were about 3 years apart before the Great Depression and now they are around 8-10 apart. So not only do we have less unemployment in a recession now, they are also farther apart. I wonder if there is a difference in how long they last.

Thanks for the chart and article, Alias.

Julie wrote: "Thanks for the info. I was being lazy. :-)
The first graph isn't showing up though.

------------------

Here is the link for the first graph. It's a government link so you don't have to worry.

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS140...

Julie wrote: "That last article is interesting. I noticed from the two graphs that the recessions were about 3 years apart before the Great Depression and now they are around 8-10 apart. So not only do we have l..."
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I think the key is our knowledge of economics and how to manage an economy has gotten better thanks to John Maynard Keynes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_May....

During the GD, the government did nothing. In fact, they were more worried about getting government deficits down. Which slowed the economy further, but they didn't understand that. Contrast that to 2008 when we stimulated the economy. However, because of politics, some say we stimulated the economy too little. Still, luckily, it seems as if it was enough to stop us going off the financial cliff that we were perched on.

A point to note is the difference between a Depression and a recession has to do with Gross domestic Product.

Here is a link for a chart from 1960 to 2012
http://www.google.com/publicdata/expl...

A general guide is to look at the changes in GDP.Gross domestic product refers to the value of all final goods and services produced within a country in a given period.

A depression is any economic downturn where real GDP declines by more than 10 percent. A recession is an economic downturn that is less severe. A rules of thumb for defining a recession is two down consecutive quarters of GDP.

From 1929 to March 1933 GDP declined by almost 33 percent

Another item to note during the GD was the very difficult problem to combat of deflation.

I couldn't find a government chart or stats for 1900-2012 for inflation /deflation.
This list from a college is the closest I can come. Note during the GD we had deflation around 10%.

http://www.minneapolisfed.org/communi...

There are so many components to the economy and the understanding the Great Depression.

I would just note one item that I think helps us now as opposed to the 1900s.

Today the elderly have Social Security. Those monthly checks for the most part are spent. That stimulates the economy not to mention lifts the recipients out of poverty.


http://www.nber.org/aginghealth/summe...
Here is the link for the above chart and more info.

Another guide that I recall from college is income inequality. This stat shows a current gap (2012) that rivals the GD. You can see the relative stability of this gap after WWII and then is widens dramatically around 1990.

[image error]

Link for above chart and more info.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Co...

What is your opinion on the future of SS?

My hope is that they just raise the dollar amount from ones paycheck that is subject to SS. Currently, I believe you pay into SS up to $90,000. Above that you don't pay into SS. They could even gap it. Say cut off at $90,000. And you start up again at say $200,000.

Unfortunately, this subject is a political hot potato so who knows what will happen. AARP is a strong lobby group. I hope they can keep SS out of the hands of Wall Street and their goal to make SS private.

I should note, I don't really want to debate the merits of our current SS system versus individual private accounts. That isn't what the book is about. I don't want this thread to be hijacked off on some political debate on this point. You understand. :)

Yes I do. I will say one thing though...my 401k has done horribly for years now. Private accounts are not looking good to me now!
Raising the upper threshold for paying in is an idea I like. They need to figure something out. If it went away, I think there would be too much backlash from the people. Even the people who use the word "socialist" as an insult would freak out if you took away their SS check!

I plan on finishing chapter 6 and 7 today.

Hope you are feeling better, Julie.

I finished ch 6 today and hopefully will start 7. I am going on vacation Wednesday and am not taking this huge book with me so I need to finish the next chapter before that. I feel much better than I did but have some sinus issues and a cough left. Thanks.

It's good you your cold before your vacation. Now you will nice and healthy and have a great time.

I do wish that the book had more graphs and photos.

Chapter 6 Page 183 talks about the Blue Eagle that stores put in their windows.


Here is the wiki info on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Eagle

Chapter 6 page 178 Harold Ickes

I don't know if I mentioned this before but the Ickes family is still in politics.

* Harold L. Ickes (1874–1952), U.S. Secretary of the Interior in Franklin D. Roosevelt's administration

* Harold M. Ickes (born 1939), son of the U.S. Interior Secretary, deputy White House Chief of Staff during the administration of U.S. President Bill Clinton

Chapter 6 Page 182

I love this quote from Johnson.

"You may have been Captains of Industry once, but you are Corporals of Disaster now!"



Wiki on Johnson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Sam...

Every time I see NRA, I think of the National Rifle Association and it's driving me nuts :-)

Chapter 7


Page 191

"Thistle soup" and feeding thistle to the animals.

I think I recall the thistles from our June/2009 Group Read of
The Worst Hard Time: The Untold Story of Those Who Survived the Great American Dust Bowl

Page 192
I think I recall my mom saying something like "This looks like Tobacco Road." I never really knew what that meant.

I think I'll put the book on my TBR list.
Tobacco Road~~Erskine Caldwell