Creative Reviews discussion
?'s for the Members of CR
>
The importance of negative reviews?

We're not journalists or politicians. We have no job description and no established rules by which we should be measured. We review because we are motivated to share - and that's highly personal.
You won't find many negative reviews from me either. If I don't care for a story by the time I'm a third of the way through, I set it down - respectfully. Usually when that happens, I simply don't have the energy or motivation to spend any more time thinking about it. I just move on.
However, when I read something thrilling, I'm so filled with awe at the author's talent and so grateful for having been moved, I have a desire to let everyone know. It's fun to celebrate with like-minded readers in a positive way.
If a reader finds your reviews to be too uniformly positive, all they need to do is seek out a range of opinions from others. There are plenty of reviewers who post insightful critiques of books they hated. As a reader, I find those helpful and informative.
However, when I write a review it's because I want to spread the joy.

Like Suki, I'd rather spread the joy. But then, I'm a reader AND a writer (although I still read like a reader, and not like a writer)! ;-)

As for myself, like Suki, I write reviews on books that I really enjoyed and want to share with others. I typically go into detail, because it's helpful. I see so many reviews that aren't helpful in the least, one and five star. I have to admit, the one or two star "hated this book" or "worst book I ever read" reviews amuse me to no end. Really, you continued to read all 400 pages of the "single most worthless book" you've ever encountered? It's like taking a bite out of a rancid sandwich, finishing the whole thing bite by disgusting bite, and THEN going to the counter to complain. Then again, I've found some extremely reasonable criticism at the one and two star level, so I'll temper my rant and limit it to the one liner posts.
Either way, I thank everyone that comments on my novels. At least they took the time read, and the experience compelled them to do something. I wish more readers took a moment to do this.

As an author, a thoughtful negative review can warn other readers with similar tastes away from my books. "There was too much violence and too many moral dilemmas. I like my heroes to be beyond reproach. Everyone in my church's book club felt the same way." :)
At least with such a negative review, you don't have to worry about other people with similar tastes wasting their time on your work and posting more negative reviews lol.
Splitter


Please drop by and have a read and please leave your own comments. I have quite a few people comment on how interesting it is to read both authors and reviews thoughts on good and bad reviews :)
http://paradox-theangelsarehere.blogs...

Ahhh I wish I could still read like a reader and not like a writer. I don't get as easily lost in stories like I used to - I'm too busy asking why something worked or didn't work. Sad, really . . .

Please drop by and have a read and please leave your own comments. I have quite a few people comment on how intere..."
Yes, Patti, I have tweeted that link a couple time because it was spot on lol
Splitter

Please drop by and have a read and please leave your own comments. I have quite a few people comment..."
Thanks Splitter! Always good hearing from you! Hope you have a fab Xmas xx

I know exactly what you mean. You become so critical... instead of just sitting back and enjoying the story :(


I agree with J.A., too many five-stars from a reader looks kinda dodgy to me. But hey, I guess some people are easily entertained or prefer not bad-rate a book no matter what. Goodness forbid they 1-star a book they DNF. *gasp* Such audacity! LOL. =P
But I get you. People should be able to rate a book however they want, review a book however they like (assuming they're not trolling, of course). I would be presumptious and an asshat if I dictate how people should criticize a book. Last time I checked, the world doesn't revolve around me — I'm still working on that mad, mad science-y plan.
Shane, I think that person who PMed you about not giving negative reviews is pretty presumptious herself. Suki said it best:
Suki wrote: "We're not journalists or politicians. We have no job description and no established rules by which we should be measured. We review because we are motivated to share - and that's highly personal."
The only thing I agree with Shane's PMer is that negative reviews are necessary. So what Spliter said. But no way in a sewage treatment plant am I going to tell someone else how they should criticize a book. What makes my way better than theirs? Nothing, it's a matter of opinion and to argue over how one should express their opinion? What a pointless debate that would be.
Terri ? wrote: "I'm not sure what my average rating is. I rate based on how I feel about the book not what my quoto is. Additionally, I usually read books that I think I'm going to like from authors I've read in..."
Your average is 4.60. To view your average rating, visit your profile, and check the stat under your profile picture.

It is the one 3 star review among the 5 star constellations. Actually, it's a really good and helpful review. Even though the reviewer didn't love the book, it was because of his personal opinions, not because the book wasn't good - and he even admits it IS good.
And I recently left a 3-star review for a book (Westerly Gales) that had eight reviews, ALL of them 5 stars: http://www.amazon.com/Westerly-Gales-...
DO NOT READ FURTHER IF YOU INTEND TO READ WESTERLY GALES AND YOU DO NOT WANT SPOILERS! STOP HERE! YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!!
Ok then...the reason why I didn't appreciate the book was because the "pirates" set in this future PA universe were described as Muslims. That's right, even in future generations, this author thinks that all Muslims will be fatwa-jihadi lovin', 'let's kill all the Christians' deathmongers, only this time they will be in boats. That sorely pissed me off, and that (and the fact that, though well written and with few editing complaints, the book was super extra detailey on sailing and all things nautical, and was very archaic in flow of language) was the main reason I didn't love this book.
And interestingly enough, two different people who had read and reviewed the book commented on my review, and explained that the complaints I had about the first book are adequately addressed in the second. So, though I had NO intention of reading the second book, because of other reviews, I am willing to give the book a chance.
HELPFUL critical reviews are great. Whiny, complainy reviews with no explanations are not.
As a reviewer, I actually have given out the odd 1 or 2 star review. But the book has to be pretty terrible for me to do that. And since I have been working much more closely with authors as an editor, and I hear THEIR side of bad reviews, I have tried to be much kinder in reviews, even if I hate the book. Stingy with 5 star reviews, too, because it has to be pretty terrific to score a "perfect" rating.

As a reviewer, most of my reviews are four stars, but I know what I like and tend to stick to that formula for the most part. I do post 'negative' reviews (negative in terms of stars), but I always say why I didn't like the book and make it clear that it is a matter of personal taste. I always try and find something positive about the book - as Splitter says, just because I find a book far too slow in pace, doesn't mean another reader wouldn't enjoy it if they love descriptive writing.

Try to find a balance and set levels. If you liked it lean more torwards that but put a few negative things, if u disliked do the opposite, if ur torn then give an equal balance of both.


The other 10% was just that the book wasn't world shattering for me, but I just couldn't pin-point exactly why. After all, you don't need to be enthralled in a book to enjoy it, you just need to be entertained.

'I hated this book, it was really boring'
It makes me want to comment and ask WHY. Did nothing much happen, did the main character make you want to dig your own eyes out with a rusty nail, was it full of spelling mistakes?
For example, a book I am reading at the moment has a good storyline, an interesting main character, but the focus is far too 'military tactical' for my own taste. That doesn't make it a bad book, just that if you aren't interested in the military stuff, then it may not be the book for you, or you should be prepared to skim-read some parts of the book.
Personally, I can skim the military bits, I can also overlook spelling mistakes, but if reviewers give negative reviews without saying why, it's unfair to the author and misleading to other readers.
After all, we need each other! :)

'I hated this book, it was really boring'
It makes me want to comment and ask WHY. Did nothing much happen, did the main character make you want to di..."
We're symbiotic f'sure.


a 3. If I see that there's only 4s and 5s on someone's shelf, I'd also find that fishy. It's not possible that a person can like everything they read.

a 3. If I see that there's only 4s and 5s on someone's shelf, I'd also find that fishy. It's not possible that a person can like everything the..."
I know that some reviews don't like to give 'low' ratings to Indie authors. I can understand the reasons why, but I can't bring myself not to be completely honest about what I read.
I support Indie authors 110%, and have met some amazing authors through reading and reviewing their books, but I can't let that influence how I feel.
It's important to be honest but fair.



Most of the books I read are 3*'s or higher and it is rare to find a 1* but believe me they are out there. I review indie's and trad's on the same scale. There are gems and duds in both arenas and I don't believe in sugar-coating. If a book blows me away or makes me just a wee bit more insane I want all of my friends/fellow book lovers to know and to know the reasons why.

If I request a book to review, I'm committed to reviewing it, so I finish it and try to write an analytical review. We don't give star ratings or recommend/not recommend books. We are supposed to discuss what's good and bad about the book, so the reader can make their own decision.
You can see my reviews here: http://www.nyjournalofbooks.com/revie... or link through to the rest of the site. I think my worst review was for Theodore Boone: Kid Lawyer, by John Grisham, if you want an example of a negative analytical review.
It's different with Amazon or GoodReads, though. I'm not committed to finishing or reviewing a book I don't like. If I do post, I still try to clearly analyze what I liked or didn't like about a book, but I'll err on the side of "rounding up" my rating. On Amazon, three stars is "It was okay," and if it wasn't at least okay I wouldn't have kept reading.
As a casual reviewer, I can afford to be kinder to people in the star rating (while still giving a helpful review), and I don't risk starting a war with another author unhappy about my reviews.
I recently posted a bunch of romance/romantic suspense reviews to Amazon under my alternate writer name, Kris Bock. I haven't yet gotten around to also posting them here. Most of the books listed under my Chris Eboch profile are for kids. I know a lot of other children's book authors professionally/socially, so although I won't lie, I also won't post bad reviews.

That's why I don't knock people with a "high" average rating. That high rating does not necessarily mean that they are just being nice. It might mean that they are just being selective.
Splitter

I never thought of it as that way, but you got a great point there.

BTW- My Book is sooo not a 1 star its at least 4.5!


A "could not finish" shelf doesn't do any good, IMO. Maybe I couldn't finish a book, because I'm just not in the mood for it, not because I didn't like it. And I think they add all the books on the shelves to the total books, and I'd rather my count be based on books I've completed.

I've thrown away only one book in my life but it was so derogatory towards Native Americans that I refused to let anyone else read that dreck. >:(

That's why I don't knock people with..."
Belated comment (this thread moves fast with volume): I tend to agree and follow your pattern, Splitter, with two exceptions:
1) I'm hooked on police procedurals and read a ton of them. Many I enjoy but are really very ordinary from the standpoint of writing and plotting. I give them a three and that has brought my average somewhat below yours.
2) I read a lot of self-published books to give fellow GR authors a try where the description looks like I might like the book. If I don't like them (I've had several DNFs), I don't rate and don't review. Even if people don't cut me any breaks (they don't), I'm emotionally committed to not roughing up Indie authors.

Another reason I believe negative reviews are necessary is because they give credibility. I don't mind family and friends of an author and the author herself five-starring her books, but do know a perfectly-rated book, especially a self or indie-pub is highly suspicious. Not to mention they're Shiny Little Stars that Look Pretty but Feel Fake.
Those "perfect" books make me feel like someone is actively scamming me to buy the book. And if I do end up buying them and reading them and suddenly not liking what I finished, I feel like such a moron for buying into all those acclaims. And then I start questioning the credibility and honesty of those acclaims.
Negative reviews help prepared myself for the worst and allow me to safely believe that this book will be enjoyed by some and hated by others — that this is no scam.
I'm sorry to say this but there is absolutely no way for a book to exist that could be enjoyed by all unless the book has mind-controlling ability that forces the reader to enjoy it (nice idea for a sci-fi, don't you think?). Even before an author put her hands on the keyboard, no matter what she will write, there is always-always-always going to be someone who will hate what she write — I'm not talking about someone hating the author herself, but hating the author's writing craft.
I like to think I'm in majority of readers who believe a "perfect" book sounds dodgy. But I been wrong before, so anyone here who thinks so?

Also, unless they say something factually wrong, I might disagree with their opinion but that doesn't make it any less valid, and it helps people with similar opinions avoid the book. In turn, that means that of the people who read it, a proportion of those who would not like it will have already been weeded out and so the proportion of people who will like it is higher.
Seems like a good thing to me!
JAC

I agree. If I see only five star reviews, I assume those are the author's family and friends, especially if there are fewer than 10 total reviews. (I don't know many of us who could get more people than that to actually sit down and write a review... but maybe if they were buying reviews off of Craigslist, or something.)
Usually quickly skimming over the reviews reinforces that view. If they are all "This is the best book ever!!!!" I'll take that with a whole shaker full of salt.
Kris Bock


Also, unless they say something factually wrong, I might disagree wi..."
Exactly, negative reviews steer your books to the audience that would mostly like enjoy them, warning off people who wouldn't.
I once read a negative review about how there was an assassin MC in the book and he murders people. This reviewer didn't like it one bit at all. Kind of weird for a reviewer to say so because the book blurb expressively said it was an assassin story. Her review, though negative, served as a definite confirmation that the book was about as it was advertised/blurbed as. Obviously, her negative review will ward off people who would dislike that kind of MC and steer people like my closest book friend who are obsessed with assassins as anti-heroes.
Is it me but most of the time, I feel like negative reviews are more detailed than their positive counterparts. And if you know me, you would know I love spoilers and hate surprises (am pro-spoiler extremist).
Negative reviews are always thought-provoking for me. I read a negative review of a book I like and found out that whereas I only took off a few points for the book's cons, that reviewer took off major points for it. And here's the kicker, my average rating stat was a full integer lower than the reviewer's. I'm usually a harsh critic but in that one rare case, she was a harsher than I was.
Then on a different book, I punished a book's rating severely because it dealt with the rape issue improperly. However, in a positive review, the reviewer thought it wasn't rape and that at most it was sexual harassment. O.o So I learned that people have different viewpoints about what defines rape, and that's these people aren't living in some third country where women are severely oppressed and men are overly prized. Something to ponder about.

And also, I feel like if people don't right well thought out negative reviews when a book is bad then the only negative reviews will be trollish or mindless or the book's rating will skew much to high. I feel like a lot of the reviews on Amazon skew crazy high for average books.
Just my two cents.

For what it's worth, what you do might turn on what the particular problem with the book is. If it's a matter of poor editing, I think a PM is in order. I DNF such books and therefore neither rate nor review. If the book is poorly written (e.g. functional illiteracy), I put that in the same category as poorly edited (it shouldn't have got past the editor) and I DNF it. In that case, no PM. How do you tell someone they can't write? If you don't like the actual story for some reason, than a thoughtful review is in order, keeping in mind that others may disagree. It seems to me.

Reviews saying it's technically rubbish are more of a killer than reviews saying it wasn't to your taste, I'd hazard, but either way, specific reasons are good.
JAC

(Still think ratings skew too high on Amazon in general though.)

If I was in that situation, it wouldn't be hard for me. If an author ask for a review, they'll get a review. If they ask for my review to be strictly positive, I'll politely refused. Sorry, but my integrity ain't for sale, try Craigslist.
The reason Amazon have such "enthusiastic" reviews is because they're a retailer. Reviews can make or break a sale for a book because the reviews directly affect the algorithm of the book in many ways, from how the book is recommended to its placement on lists of top books. This is especially important if the book is self or indie pub where they get barely any advertising. A bunch of good reviews on Amazon is a quick way to slip your book into lists and the recommendation slidebar.
My answer, an honest review from an unbiased source, no matter how low or high, is always best.
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/7...
I haven't given a rating lower than a three (other than for my own story 'Crystalline'--but I think I can be honest with myself without fear of offending). Therefore my overall rating average is higher but that's because I've also read many, many more books that I haven't bothered to rate.
Poor editing sinks a book, no matter how great the characters, writing style or plot. Anything that diverts from, or slows the story, anything that distracts the reader's attention, needs to be fixed or they simply won't go on.
I've found a developmental editor for my novel (Sorrow's Child). I'll also be getting a copy editor.
Just my two bob's worth.
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/7...
I haven't given a rating lower than a three (other than for my own story 'Crystalline'--but I think I can be honest with myself without fear of offending). Therefore my overall rating average is higher but that's because I've also read many, many more books that I haven't bothered to rate.
Poor editing sinks a book, no matter how great the characters, writing style or plot. Anything that diverts from, or slows the story, anything that distracts the reader's attention, needs to be fixed or they simply won't go on.
I've found a developmental editor for my novel (Sorrow's Child). I'll also be getting a copy editor.
Just my two bob's worth.
I also think it's good to remember the Goodreads rating system;
1 - didn't like it
2 - it was ok
3 - liked it
4 - really liked it
5 - it was amazing.
Our opinions are always going to be subjective. I recently decided to rate my own stories (author reviews). I've avoided doing this as it seems strange and I dislike self-promotion (an obvious problem as I am an indie writer!). I've rated them 2, 3, and three stories with a rating of 4 (I'm really pleased with them).
My husband and I talked about it afterwards and we had to laugh at the idea that I gave Anne Rice's 'Interview with a Vampire' a 3 star rating, whilst I placed several of my short stories higher than that.
Do I really think my little stories outstrip Anne Rice's book? Well, no, the idea is ludicrous, but I am still very pleased with three of my stories. So, do I go back and edit my review of 'Interview with A Vampire'? Or do I rate my books much lower? Then that would mean a rating of 0 to my story 'Crystalline' (which I honestly rated with 2 stars--it's o.k).
Reviews are always going to be subjective but they should be an honest opinion.
1 - didn't like it
2 - it was ok
3 - liked it
4 - really liked it
5 - it was amazing.
Our opinions are always going to be subjective. I recently decided to rate my own stories (author reviews). I've avoided doing this as it seems strange and I dislike self-promotion (an obvious problem as I am an indie writer!). I've rated them 2, 3, and three stories with a rating of 4 (I'm really pleased with them).
My husband and I talked about it afterwards and we had to laugh at the idea that I gave Anne Rice's 'Interview with a Vampire' a 3 star rating, whilst I placed several of my short stories higher than that.
Do I really think my little stories outstrip Anne Rice's book? Well, no, the idea is ludicrous, but I am still very pleased with three of my stories. So, do I go back and edit my review of 'Interview with A Vampire'? Or do I rate my books much lower? Then that would mean a rating of 0 to my story 'Crystalline' (which I honestly rated with 2 stars--it's o.k).
Reviews are always going to be subjective but they should be an honest opinion.

I'll be honest on popular NTY Bestseller books, but when I think about it, I wonder if it even makes a difference. The small-press authors are the ones who need the reviews, especially on Amazon. But negative reviews, as folks have already established on this thread, can hurt sales. I feel really crappy if I'm responsible for that on some level. I feel like I'm bailing out if I opt not to review small press books written by contacts, but I feel like a jerk if I read one and give it a negative review.
I had a one-star review on my book, but it was written well and I actually sent the reviewer a friend request after he wrote the review, because I respect someone who can be honest without hurting someone's feelings. It's an art I think I need a bit more practice in. Until then, I'm trying to find ways to dodge the issue until I can be honest in good conscience, because I think that's the best policy.
I'm glad this thread is here, and it's been enlightening reading the thoughts of others on this subject. It's a hard situation to negotiate.
Books mentioned in this topic
Force of Nature (other topics)Be the Media (other topics)
Stories I Only Tell My Friends (other topics)
I Am Number Four (other topics)
Westerly Gales (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Kris Bock (other topics)Suzanne Brockmann (other topics)
Phoebe North (other topics)
Jennifer Estep (other topics)
K.T. Grant (other topics)
More...
Under 3 stars, if there are enough reviews to balance it out (ie more than ten), I might put it up but if there are no other reviews or only a few, I probably wouldn't unless it was written long enough ago that the author probably isn't still around to care!
A lot of people assume that if the reviewer gives all 5s and nothing else, they probably aren't for real, and if the review doesn't mention any specifics, they probably haven't read the book in question.
Why people would risk their reputation as a reviewer giving 5stars to something that might be absolute rubbish is a mystery, though, as one bad recommendation and people will discount all your reviews.
That's the conclusion I've come to from a years' worth of reading the forums, anyhow - any use?
JAC