Pulp Fiction discussion

Excellent review, Tfitoby. I've always liked Marvin as an actor & recently saw him in "The Big Red A". When I read "Steel" by Richard Matheson, I kept picturing him since I first saw that story starring him as a Twilight Zone. Definitely a memorable actor & this sounds like a fun book.

Wikipedia has a quick write-up on him here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_marvin

I've been meaning to find that Twilight Zone episode online actually. Thanks Jim.

Did you watch the reconstructed version of The Big Red One? I hear at nearly three hours it's a much more impressive movie than the 2 hour cinematic release.

Damn! Somehow my previous post disappeared.

Finished Tobacco-Stained Mountain Goat a couple of days ago and I thought it was great. You classic film lovers out there should enjoy it. Started
The Hard Bounce yesterday and am almost finished, two great books back to back.

Just starting The End Of The World In Breslau- might be a bit of a plod, so I'm keeping Sanibel Flatswith me as back up

Currently reading Along Came a Spider. Never read any Patterson before so I thought I would read one to see what all the hype is about. So far, same old police procedural and courtroom crap that I can't stand:)

AndrewP wrote: "Currently reading Along Came a Spider. Never read any Patterson before so I thought I would read one to see what all the hype is about. So far, same old police procedural and courtroom crap that I ..."

Oh Andrew we could have told you that ;) it should be marked as *not for mature readers*

Col wrote: "Just starting The End Of The World In Breslau- might be a bit of a plod, so I'm keeping Sanibel Flatswith me as back up"

Hm, bit of a plod? The first one in the series was so weird, it kept me going right on through. It was really unique.

Anthony wrote: "Col wrote: "Just starting The End Of The World In Breslau- might be a bit of a plod, so I'm keeping Sanibel Flatswith me as back up"

Hm, bit of a plod? The first one in the series was so weird, it..."

Probably a quarter way through this - I don't think it's flowing because of the Street names, places etc. Other than that it's enjoyable.

I didn't really buy the plot on the 1st one - some feud/revenge type thing passed down for 700-odd years. Get to fuck.....I've got medals for petty mindedness but that's just bollocks in my opinion.

Starting Once Were Cops by Ken Bruen

I just started reading The Monkey's Raincoat by Robert Crais. It's fun - a very quick read.

Okay, finished Along Came a Spider and added James Patterson to my 'never touch again' list. I'm trying to work through some of the modern authors to determine if they are worth my time. That's Patterson and Cornwell off the list. Next up is Kathy Reichs I think.

Starting The Thin Man

AndrewP wrote: "Okay, finished Along Came a Spider and added James Patterson to my 'never touch again' list. I'm trying to work through some of the modern authors to determine if they are worth my time. That's Pat..."

None of them are Andrew ;)

Modern authors I recommend include (but not limited to) Megan Abbott, Duane Swierczynski, Charlie Huston, Don Winslow, Dave Zeltserman, Jedidiah Ayres, George Pelecanos, James Sallis. I'm sure I've missed some obvious ones here, but pretty much none of these trouble the bestseller charts for long so you might not notice them when looking at Patterson, Cornwell and Reichs titles.

Of course if you want some popular unit shifters a lot of the guys around here recommend Matthew Connolly who I can't comment on because I haven't tried myself. But I have tried Ian Rankin who is enjoyable enough but a little lighter than the real great guys of the genre who worry less about appealing to the masses.

Tfitoby wrote: "None of them are Andrew ;) ..."

I suspected as much but I am willing to give them a one book trial just to make sure for myself:)

Thanks for your suggestions. I will be looking out for the authors you suggest.

Getting started on The Big Midget Murders by Craig Rice.

Huh. Rankin's a fan of Thomas Pynchon so I'd expect his writing to be a bit more complex and literary, not to mention less accessible, kinda like a British James Ellroy. (heard David Peace described that way)

Just finished Hombre. Great western classic.

finished Another Man's Moccasins - good , but a step back in quality for me comapred with the first three Walt Longmire books.
Now reading The Fire Engine That Disappeared , it has that Scandinavian noir vibe, but it is more police procedural that anything else.

Ctgt wrote: "Just finished Hombre. Great western classic."

Great movie, too. Leonard really nailed it all the way around with that one.

Simon wrote: "Huh. Rankin's a fan of Thomas Pynchon so I'd expect his writing to be a bit more complex and literary, not to mention less accessible, kinda like a British James Ellroy. (heard David Peace describe..."

The Red Riding sequence from Peace could definitely be described that way. The Rebus novels not so much. In the intro/foreword to the first one Knots and Crosses Rankin talks about his influences but he also talks about trying to shift units.

Well, the one example I know of a more "popular" writer who's strongly influenced by Pynchon is William Gibson and he's definitely an acquired taste. I actually get the impression that a lot of Gibson's admirers as well as his detractors misunderstand him, since he's got a completely different set of creative priorities than most other writers working in the genre. (in Gibson's case science-fiction)

Simon wrote: "Huh. Rankin's a fan of Thomas Pynchon so I'd expect his writing to be a bit more complex and literary, not to mention less accessible, kinda like a British James Ellroy. (heard David Peace describe..."

Rankin is far from literary crime author. He is good with describing Edinburg,the scottish setting but he is rather decent,generic bleak crime author. Far from complex. His character is like Harry Bosch, many other older man with depressing life.

Being Pynchon fan doesnt make him literary crime author,complex. I have read him and he isnt that level imo.

Simon wrote: "Well, the one example I know of a more "popular" writer who's strongly influenced by Pynchon is William Gibson and he's definitely an acquired taste. I actually get the impression that a lot of Gib..."

I've been hit and miss with Gibson but I'm very much intrigued by the supposed departure from his roots in his latest trilogy. Still that hasn't made me read them, just buy them.

Nightmare in Pink - 2nd Travis McGee book, by John D. MacDonald - should be a quick read, so Henry Baum - The Golden Calf afterwards

I've only read Burning Chrome but even there it's clear that the vast majority of Gibson's inspiration comes from outside the science-fiction genre, and as accurate as his futuristic predictions might have been they're among the least important themes in his writing.

(they're usually all people talk about, though)

On the subject of James Ellroy, this weekend I passed the halfway mark of Clandestine. I can definitely get why he divides audiences so much: He might be "trashy" in the sense that he takes the moral ambiguity and hard-boiledness of the noir classics to a much higher level than was permissible back then as far as popular literature is concerned, but at the same time he's operating at a different set of literary ambitions than most authors in the genre.

Even in as early and as conventional a novel as "Clandestine", Ellroy seems uninterested in the usual plot structures of the genre in favour of introspection into the highly dysfunctional main character's mind. The hyperactive fragmented "lots of things happening at once" prose style occasionally gives off a "Thomas Pynchon for the masses" feel.

It's way beyond even Raymond Chandler, if not quite at Paul Auster levels, in its attempt to bring a more stereotypically "literary" sensibility to the genre. I can definitely understand why Ellroy's a controversial author but also why he's one of those crime novelists who have earned the highest level of credibility in academic literary circles. Especially if "Clandestine" is his most normal novel.

On the subject of Gibson and pulp fiction, I guess I should add that Gibson's greatest literary influence was a writer called William Burroughs.

Bill had writen pulp noir type scenes in his novel Naked Lunch, he had experimented with sci-fi in his cut-up trilogy and his first novel entitled 'Junkie' was pure pulp having been published by a pulp publisher in the 1950s.

Now, please don't rush out and buy Burroughs because you will probably be disappointed. The man experimented with the pulp genre, and when he did - The Clem Snide scenes in Cities of the Red Night, or the double act cop routine in Naked Lunch he was simply brilliant at it. The problem with Burroughs was he couldn't hold down a plot.

Burroughs is in my humble view the best pulp writer who never wrote a pure pulp novel.

Had he been cut off from his family fortune he could have possibly been the best pulp writer to have ever walked the planet. Wasn't to be.

Writers like Gibson took his ideas forward.

But that's another topic -

I've 5-starred both "Junky" and "Naked Lunch", so I know what you're talking about. Indeed, I mention in my review of "Burning Chrome" that Wm. Burroughs' (and Pynchon's) influence on Gibson is more obvious than that from inside the science-fiction genre.

Tfitoby wrote: "Hands up who's read the Joseph Hansen series of hardboiled novels featuring insurance investigator Dave Brandstetter?

Chances are there aren't many of you, I just read my first one and it's all ve..."
I discovered the Brandstetter series way back when they were originally published. Weren't the 1st three or four paperback originals? I have later entries in the series in hardback as well as in paperback formats.
I loved the series & felt that they could have formed the basis for true cutting edge tv mini-series.
They stand to this day as highly original little mysteries...

I have to cut this short. I'm away from home & I'm responding to the original post on mt iPad. Feeling a bit like a duck in a bowl of soup. Apologies for any typos or grammatical mishaps.

How great it is to find other "Brandstetter" fans!

Cheers Simon,

Sorry I didn't get a chance to read your reviews....

No probs, the starting point of that tangent was James Ellroy's similarities with Thomas Pynchon which might be second-hand as I've never heard Ellroy mention Pynchon as an inspiration. However, he *is* a fan of Don DeLillo who in turn happens to be a Pynchonite.

It's not impossible that Pynchon might have borrowed from Ellroy again, by the way, when writing his own retro noir novel Inherent Vice.

Well, I read 'Dark Places' and what I got from that was that while going through his lost amphetamine-breaking-into-houses-masturbating phase he was an omnivorous crime reader devouring anything he could get his hands on.

When you read like that its hard to have one main influence...Or two main influences...Ellroy I've always considered to be his own stylist....

(by the way, I have finally gotten around to writing a review of Elmore Leonard's Out of Sight which I read a while ago actually)

I am well into The Eagle Has Landed by Jack Higgins. What a book!

Tfitoby wrote: "I've been meaning to find that Twilight Zone episode online actually. Thanks Jim.

Did you watch the reconstructed version of The Big Red One? I hear at nearly three hours it's a much more impressi..."

If you can find it watch the season three episode of The Twilight Zone called "The Grave". You can't beat Lee Marvin , Lee Van Cleef , James Best and Strother Martin all together!

Just started Dogs of God by Pinckney Benedict. Its been sat on the shelf for nearly 20 years!

BTW Jedidiah Ayres book is now available on kindle - can't remember title.....something bitches!

Mantan wrote: "Tfitoby wrote: "Hands up who's read the Joseph Hansen series of hardboiled novels featuring insurance investigator Dave Brandstetter?

Chances are there aren't many of you, I just read my first one..."

Well that makes two of us then. Hooray!

Dennis wrote: "Tfitoby wrote: "I've been meaning to find that Twilight Zone episode online actually. Thanks Jim.

Did you watch the reconstructed version of The Big Red One? I hear at nearly three hours it's a mu..."

I just found both Lee Marvin Twilight Zones last night. Can't wait.

Col wrote: "Just started Dogs of God by Pinckney Benedict. Its been sat on the shelf for nearly 20 years!

BTW Jedidiah Ayres book is now available on kindle - can't remember title.....something bitches!"

Brilliant, Fierce Bitches and Lee are both now on kindle. Dirt cheap too from the looks of it.

Tfitoby wrote: "Col wrote: "Just started Dogs of God by Pinckney Benedict. Its been sat on the shelf for nearly 20 years!

BTW Jedidiah Ayres book is now available on kindle - can't remember title.....something bi..."

I'll be ponying up for my copy later today - plus Crumley - TLGK - both for less than a fiver!

Crumley's books are actually somewhat difficult to find here in Denmark. It's amazing how many American crime writers who are popular on their home turf are almost unknown in Europe, at least with casual fans of the genre.

Ross Macdonald, for example, is totally obscure in my country when in the US he's almost as famous as Hammett and Chandler... even though I get the impression his novel's themes aren't quite as culturally specific as James Lee Burke's or Jim Thompson's. Also heard that the late Stieg Larsson actually plagiarized much of the Millennium Trilogy's plot from some of the Lew Archer books, which would be easy for him to get away with since here in Scandinavia it's only ultra-hardcore fans of crime novels who have ever heard of RM. Would certainly explain too why the US remake of the ''Girl with the Dragon Tattoo'' movie flopped so hard at the box office!

Tfitoby wrote: "I've been meaning to find that Twilight Zone episode online actually. Thanks Jim.

Did you watch the reconstructed version of The Big Red One? I hear at nearly three hours it's a much more impressi..."

Somehow I missed this. Sorry. I think I just saw the regular 2 hour 'Big Red One'. It was on TV, so didn't go into details.

I ripped all the Twilight Zones & Outer Limits episodes, put them on a drive with PDF's made of all the Wikipedia articles of them. Makes it easy to read up on them as I watch them occasionally.

Tfitoby wrote: "Just finished Lee a collection of short stories featuring iconic hardboiled actor Lee Marvin. It's new from Crime Factory who just released the excellent Fierce Bitches last month too. They're on a..."

Hadn't known about this title. Purchased it as an e- book last night from Amazon. I try to support the endeavors of fellow fans of Lee Marvin -the one true personification of Richard Stark's "Parker" on film.

Had it not been for your post I might never have heard of this anthology.
THANKS!

Just started Killer Protocols last night, already a third of the way through, obviously pretty good pacing.

Ctgt wrote: "Just started Killer Protocols last night, already a third of the way through, obviously pretty good pacing."

...*holding breath*... ;-)

David wrote: "Ctgt wrote: "Just started Killer Protocols last night, already a third of the way through, obviously pretty good pacing."

...*holding breath*... ;-)"

About halfway through and am enjoying it!

Mantan wrote: "Tfitoby wrote: "Just finished Lee a collection of short stories featuring iconic hardboiled actor Lee Marvin. It's new from Crime Factory who just released the excellent Fierce Bitches last month t..."

Probably the best $2 you could spend! I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

Jim wrote: "Tfitoby wrote: "I've been meaning to find that Twilight Zone episode online actually. Thanks Jim.

Did you watch the reconstructed version of The Big Red One? I hear at nearly three hours it's a mu..."

You ripped ALL of them? Wow that's some serious viewing.
I saw both Marvin episodes the other night, my first ever Twilight Zone experience. They certainly made it seem easy.

Simon wrote: "Crumley's books are actually somewhat difficult to find here in Denmark. It's amazing how many American crime writers who are popular on their home turf are almost unknown in Europe, at least with ..."

That's fascinating Simon. My experience is that there's a whole chunk of noir history largely ignored by Americans and loved by Europeans, especially the French. MacDonald must have been too USA mainstream for the Swedes!

Ross Macdonald, Crumley isnt hard to find in Sweden if you go to real bookstores that are more knowledgable than bookchaines that only have few new bestseller of crime.

I impulse bought 3 Crumley brand new paperback by Vintage in local bookstore. He has his own part of a big shelf in the store. Owned by a noir fan that bookstore that is big and not some casual fan.

To me obscure are the forgotten ones and not legendary authors. Just some casual fans dont like this kind of book of PI, Noir.

Crime is huge in Sweden and maybe thats not the same in Denmark. More likely to be fans like us here.