Fantasy Book Club discussion

I did read all of this series last year after the final book was released, so was able to read them one after the other. I enjoyed them much more than i expected and found the characters very interesting and liked how the story was carried over into each book. A great series. I do find it hard to understand how certain christian groups claim the series is evil and wonder if they would claim the same if the series had not been so successful.

I don't think it is so much the success of the series as it is that the target audience started out as children and young adults. I have seen many novels that have conventional forms of magic that are not targeted so much, and I think that the key difference is the target audience.

I really enjoyed the entire series. For starting out as children's books, they were very well written and very intriguing. As she wrote more, it became clearer that she realized her audience was growing, and adapted that to match, I think. Very well done!

Yes i see what you mean now by target audience. It was great how she expanded the later books and gave us a more deeper story line. I read that she maybe soon releasing another book, not sure how true that is.

One thing for sure, she is looking much more happier, younger and more attractive these days. Her appearance has changed dramatically, (plastic surgery or maybe just better application of make up or has Harry Potter been doing some magic on her) from:
earlier years
to
2008

This is actually one of my favorite series. I like YA because it tends to be "lighter" and a fun read as opposed to say Tolkien which is more dense.

Don't get me wrong I love Tolkien but I think Rowlings had a great series that I looked forward to with each book.

I had also heard that she was writing a new book, though according to what I read it is supposedly going to be a detective mystery. In the last article I read, she had said in an interview that she currently does not plan to revisit the Harry Potter setting, but that she's not going lock herself down and say there will be no more books following the young wizard.

Personally, I think a detective mystery would be really good from her, her style and ability to keep you in suspense totally fit the genre.

The Harry Potter books are some of my all time favorites. I re-read the entire series from start to finish probably once a year (although lately I have added so much to my TBR list that I may have to skip this year!).

I'm with you, though, JJ- I can't imagine how anyone who has read these books can possibly label them as "evil" or "devil worship". I think that is mainly fear.

The target audience may have something to do with it, ("Oh no! They're going after the innocent, impressionable children!") but again, anyone who has read them would realize that even from the very first book, Rowling sets the tone: Life is hard, but that is no reason not to be a good person anyway. And isn't that what Christianity is about, being kind and loving one another?

Mom and Dad may think that they are doing little Susie or Johnny a favor by protecting them from "Evil" (in the form of Harry Potter, in this case), but as soon as Susie and Johnny are out of reach, they will make their own choices and live their own lives.

It amazes me that some people can't see that and think that idea-banning is the way to go.

That way lies rebellion.

It actually made me read the series because of all this so called evil influences as I wanted to find out why they seen it as so bad for kids. So i became a reader of the series just for that reason mainly.
I couldnt see anything that would give reason to banning these books from schools.
I hope this detective story she writes is aimed at adults and shows that she can write without having magical charatacters.

I first read this when my daughter was in third grade, I think. She has dyslexia & a learning recall issue. I'd heard it was good & picked it up a the school's book fair. After reading it, I was thrilled & got her to read it. She was in special ed for reading at the time & the teacher told me I was over-facing her. It did take her a long time to read it, but she really liked the story & stuck with it.

By the time she was in 4th grade, she'd read through the 3d or 4th one & was hooked on reading. By 5th grade, she no longer needed any special ed for reading & she was reading everything in sight. I credit Rowling's wonderful story for her success at reading. She captured my daughter's imagination.

The story is quite good. Fairly unique, imaginative & full of interesting bits. I didn't enjoy the later books as much as I did the first ones, although I think her writing improved as the series wore on. May have just been me burning out on the world. I give them all 5 stars because I think the series will go down as a classic. It's timeless & makes kids want to read - I can't think of higher praise.

Thats a great personal story you have told us there Jim. Its always good to hear of children enjoying reading with so much distraction from games and TV. I was amazed at kids reading such lenghtly novels as the series progressed and how they were so eager for each new novel as it was released.

What i found really enjoyable about the series was how well i could understand and identify with the characters and their actions. The charcters were so real and interesting that i wish more adult novels had similar. Even the way the story unfolded and the ammount of planning and ideas that went into the unraveling of various threads amazed me and i was not sure what to expect. From reading the first novel i never expected the series to have a tale with so much depth and mystery. Yes I agree, a classic has been created that will be remembered for a long time.

JJ wrote: "I did read all of this series last year after the final book was released, so was able to read them one after the other. I enjoyed them much more than i expected and found the characters very inter..."

Like you, I read the entire series after the last book was released. I am a Christian and found it hard to find what the objections were. It was a fantasy, for goodness sakes. I know the difference between fantasy and reality. In fact, I found the last book to be a much more recognizable Christian allegory than
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

I liked how the story did get deeper and more complex as it progressed. It didn't stagnate at one reading level and the characters grew and matured realistically.

Sandi, you've hit on a few things that I love about this series.

1) The characters actually grow and mature as they get older. And, not only do they mature, but they do it in a realistic way, without the magic that runs rampant in their world. There is no short-cut for Harry, he is just thrust into situations and deals with them the best way he can. Ron, who happens to be my favorite character, and Hermione are right there with him, every step of the way.

2) The entire series is a maze of references to Christianity, Hinduism (Padma and Parvati Patil), mythology, fairy-tales, legends, etc. They also hint at real life issues, such as bullying, teenage friendships and romances, sexuality (although very indirectly, which is the one thing I wish would have been less hidden), prejudice, forgiveness, etc.

This honestly has to be one of the best (if not THE best) series to introduce people - and not just kids, either- to so much more than just magic. It still amazes me that I can find something new every time I crack one of the books. There is just so much there!

I'm fairly sure that the people that put down HP because of witchcraft haven't read it. My next door neighbor went to a church where the preacher put it down. When it came down to it, we found out the preacher didn't have a clue about HP, just went off on the word 'witches'. My daughter proved to the neighbor how good the book was & he let his kids read it then.

Unfortunately, there is no easy cure for close-mindedness or willing-ignorance.

Unfortunately, there is no easy cure for close-mindedness or willing-ignorance.

Hear, hear! The people who attacked the Harry Potter series were of the fundamentalist variety of Christian, people who eschew science in favor of superstition, and who reject logic because it does not fit in with their narrow interpretation of Scripture. I've found that reasonable, open-minded Christians love Harry Potter as much as secular folks.

JJ wrote: "I did read all of this series last year after the final book was released, so was able to read them one after the other...I do find it hard to understand how certain christian groups claim the series is evil and wonder if they would claim the same if the series had not been so successful."

I'm so envious of you JJ - to be able to read them all at once. I read one and two together then the rest as they came out and it was difficult waiting for them. I also did not see what all the fuss was about. In the end they probably did themselves a dis-service as their protests probably drove some people to the book who might otherwise had not just to see what all the fuss was.

-- Wife of GR Author Michael J. Sullivan | The Crown Conspiracy | Avempartha

Jane wrote: "This is actually one of my favorite series. I like YA because it tends to be "lighter" and a fun read as opposed to say Tolkien which is more dense."

I couldn't agree more - one of the things I like about fantasy is that it is pure enjoyment I don't like struggling through it.

That being said - I did love LOTR - even though it was dense but you have to understand that at the time there really wasn't a lot of options. I really like that there are a lot of new and fresh voices in the genre - Like Brandon Sanderson who we will be discussing soon.

Jim wrote: "I first read this when my daughter was in third grade, I think. She has dyslexia & a learning recall issue."

We did the same thing for my dyslexic daughter though she was much older than yours. She doesn't have a problem with recall - and really not all that much problem with reading but her writing...OMG. Whenever I read a book report she wrote I would have to "translate" it. There were certain words that I knew what they were but noone else could ever decphier them.

Alas it is something they will always have with them. My daughter is in college now studying art. She had to do a picture for her final that was a self portrait and it had her in her room looking marose with a calendar and clock prominant and her white board proclaming Final Due December 15. The only problem...Final was spelled Finle !!

Becky wrote: "This honestly has to be one of the best (if not THE best) series to introduce people - and not just kids, either- to so much more than just magic. It still amazes me that I can find something new every time I crack one of the books. There is just so much there! "

I agree - one of these days I want to re-read the whole series from start to end - I really like the way there are things "intertwined between them" I remember some years ago when I re-read the first one - I was amazed to find that Hagrid arrived at Privet Drive on Sirus Black's Motorcycle. I of course did not even know who Siris Black was!

Robin, "The Hobbit" was one of the first books I ever read. By the time we read it & did a play on it in 6th grade, I'd read it so many times I had the beginning of the book memorized. I thought it was a YA book for years.

My wife is dyslexic, as well. I often feel like a walking dictionary as both of them are constantly asking me to spell for them. Yes, their spellings can be quite interesting. Our grocery list looks like it was written in code.

Jim wrote: "Yes, their spellings can be quite interesting. Our grocery list looks like it was written in code."

Only Sarah is dyslexic in our family - although she has some other weird quirks that might be OCD. For instance if someone leaves the dooor to the basement open a crack she nearly goes insane. Or if the light is on in the kitchen and we are all in the living room - she also goes nuts.

As I think I mentioned she is a voracious reader and likes fantasy but WOULD NOT read her father's book...why...because it was in manuscript form and she can't read it on 8 1/2" x 11" paper - she said she wouldn't reat it until it was published - hence a book he never intended to send out became published and she finally read it. Haha - he even dedicated the book to her - and her wierd "quirk".

Always disliked this. Good idea and all, and last 3 books are best, however seeing as voldemort was raised as a muggle, doesn't he have the simple intuitiveness to poison/shoot harry? what a fool.

He was raised as a muggle, yes, but his entire life was spent trying to be anything OTHER than normal. He considered himself to be the greatest and most powerful wizard ever, so why would he resort to non-magical means to deal with his opponents? What kind of message would that send to his followers?

"Wow. Voldemort is supposedly this 'great wizard', yet he had to resort to stabbing a teenager in order to kill him. Why are we following this guy?"

Not only that, but Voldemort was defeated by Lily's sacrifice, which is magic. Killing Harry by non-magical means might make him happy that he got his revenge finally, but it would do nothing to restore Voldemort's body etc, a fact that he realized after two failed assassination attempts.

But why not do body restore thing then kill him with avada kedavra...

He did do that....or at least, he tried.

Jim wrote: "I'm fairly sure that the people that put down HP because of witchcraft haven't read it.

The mom that was trying to get the books banned from her kids school, Mallory I think her name was, flat out admitted that she had never read them and didn't have the time or desire to read them.
It made me feel a bit bad for her kids.

Melyssa wrote: "Jim wrote: "I'm fairly sure that the people that put down HP because of witchcraft haven't read it."

Personally I really can't think under any circumstances justifying book banning. Even books that are terrible and spread hate or violence we are a free society and free exchange of ideas (even terrible ones) is the price we pay....but to protest something that you have not even read - well that leaves me speachless.

Melyssa wrote: "He did do that....or at least, he tried."

No, he gave him his wand and dueled him, do it in the back.

Voldemort couldn't "stab him in the back" magically for anymore reason than he could do it mundanely. Imagine, you follow this supposed all power-full wizard, and he's too frightened to face a half-trained, inexperienced kid in direct combat? Hell, I'm sure when Voldemort decided to duel him he never thought that Harry even stood a chance of resisting as long as he did, let alone surviving and escaping. Underestimating his opponent because of his own arrogance is what ultimately proves to be his downfall!

And as for mundane means, it is for his muggle blood that he hated muggles so much! He would never resort to their methods of doing anything, because their methods are (in his view) far beneath someone as powerful as him.

Robin wrote: Personally I really can't think under any circumstances justifying book banning.
And Jim wrote: I'm fairly sure that the people that put down HP because of witchcraft haven't read it.

Here's a listing of banned and challenged books and the reasons why:
http://title.forbiddenlibrary.com/

I've read most of these books and when I see the reasons they are banned or challenged, it is obvious that those doing the challenging have never read these books OR if they did, they didn't get it at all.

I don't think anyone has the right to ban a book. The solution is simple, if it offends you then don't read it. It annoys me that someone thinks they have the right to dictate what other's read.

Since this is a HP discussion, I throw my two cents in, I think JK Powling did a remarkable job with this series. Clever, no loose ends, I thoroughly enjoyed it and was as excited as a 10 year old girl everytime a new one came out.

I'll be honest, I was as excited as 10 year old girl, too!

Jackie wrote: "I don't think anyone has the right to ban a book. The solution is simple, if it offends you then don't read it. It annoys me that someone thinks they have the right to dictate what other's read. "

Abridged books annoy me for the same reason. Some guy in some publishing company somewhere is deciding what readers should and shouldn't have access to, and chopping up classic books. Who is he to decide which pages I want to read? I want to read ALL of them. I don't want someone telling me what happened, I want to see it.

Sorry... ranting.

Anyway. I love reading banned books. I like to know what all the fuss is about. And normally, its a ridiculous fuss.

I have to agree, A.L., banning a book or even a television show should not be a substitute for good parenting! There are more than a few books that my mom read first, and several of them I was told I was not allowed to have until I was older!

A.L. wrote: "Most of them backed down when I explained that that's not how Rowling's world works: you're born magic or you're not. If you are you get the Hogwart's invite, if you're not you can't even find the place."

OK that scares me. These people do know that this is a work of FICTION, right?

That's what I don't get, this is NOT real.

I have an aquaintance who buys, reads and loves the HP books, then she goes on a religious tear, throws them out because they are 'evil', then a month later goes out and buys them again and starts it all over again. No wonder JK is a billionaire, LMAO

I think your acquaintance meets the medical definition of "insanity".

Wow, that's pretty bad. If I were an author, I'd want all of my readers to be like that, lol.

Robert wrote: "Voldemort couldn't "stab him in the back" magically for anymore reason than he could do it mundanely. Imagine, you follow this supposed all power-full wizard, and he's too frightened to face a half..."

I guess that i get annoyed by the pride over mind villain archetype that voldemort is played out as...stereotypical and unrealistic. Also, the idea that he sits with his cronies and cackles about the dark stuff they can do is very comic.
I'd be more likely to follow the clever voldemort than the one who duels his enemies then loses...maybe that's only me.

Oscar wrote: No, he gave him his wand and dueled him, do it in the back."
Right. But that was LV's problem. He was arrogant, and he had a point to prove. He couldn't kill Harry as a baby, but he was bent on showing that no one could defeat him. By killing him 'in the back', I think, would have only shown that LV was a coward (more than he already was, imo) and couldn't handle his own.

Im a natural coward and logical to the death, so i will never get voldemort.

Melyssa wrote: "Oscar wrote: No, he gave him his wand and dueled him, do it in the back."
Right. But that was LV's problem. He was arrogant, and he had a point to prove. He couldn't kill Harry as a baby, but he..."

Exactly. For LV to admit that he could not defeat Harry openly would have completely undermined his authority. You don't become the Evil Lord because all your followers think you're a pansy. Stabbing harry in the back, or having someone else kill him, would have made the Death Eaters second guess how "powerful" he was, and that's something no Evil Overlord ever wants to face.

I would have to agree that banning anything is completely against freedom and if we want to live in a free world then...

Choice is what counts - in everything - and why is it that someone else's choice counts more than mine /anyone else's? Yes, we have to protect children but good parenting should deal with that and the relevant laws etc.

However, for myself I don't believe in censorship of any kind (except for the protection of children) and as adults we should be able to read /watch /say what we want and not allow others to tell us 'no, I've looked and you can't!'

Rambled, sorry but this is a pet hate of mine...and for the record I loved the Harry Potter books on many levels not least that I'm searching for the school so I can train asap!

Long live freedom!

Julie Elizabeth Powell - is this where I dodge the rotten fruit?

But see Julie, you've just hit on the secret weapon that censors and advocates of book-banning use.

"We Must Protect The Children."

No. It is the parent's (or legal guardian's) job to determine what their own children read, watch on TV, hear on the radio, whatever. Nobody else's.

Some mother in California might think that she is helping mothers everywhere when she campaigns for having a book banned from highschool reading lists, but all she's doing is promoting censorship. She's not "protecting children" from the book, as they can easily obtain it elsewhere. And now they have a built-in reason for wanting to read it: They were told they can't.

Even if the book is not easily accessible elsewhere, people can't be sheltered from life. If they don't know what they are being "protected" from, how can they learn from it?

I don't agree with censorship or book-banning in ANY form, for ANY reason. I think that it should be an individual's decision, not government's.

It's mostly the extreme religious right who are into banning books and want to control what everyone reads. If they find even the slightest thing they disagree with in a book, they want to have it banned. Like they think their kid is going to be corrupted forever or something.

Usually when the books do get banned though it just makes them want to read it more.

Unfortunately, religion is about controlling the masses.
I believe in self-control, not forced control.
It goes back to choices. What's offensive or evil to one doesn't mean it is offensive or evil to another. Individuality. We all see things from different perspectives, have different ideas, likes and dislikes. I say Live and Let Live.

I don't believe in evil, and don't get what's so bad about hp with religion...look at things like Doctor Who, which constantly defy religion. No one fusses about that.

I don't believe in evil either. We are of a dual nature, good and bad. I think by blaming an 'evil' force it takes the responsibility off the person doing negative things.
Doctor Who isn't that big in the US, it's not on network TV. I have a lot of British friends and their attitude towards religion is more relaxed that here in the states.
BTW, I am a huge Doctor Who fan, Torchwood too. Have you seen the new guy who's going to be playing The Doctor? I'm going to miss David Tennant, I absolutely adore his geek-chic very cool portrayal of The Doctor.

I don't believe in morals...there is only power...

Ye, i loved tennant. new guy looks good, but i hope he doesn't imitate tennant due to his popularity. Want something fresh.

Morals are different to each of us. I have a code of living that is moral to me.
It's ridiculous to try and make us all one way, conform to a certain set of rules or behaviors, when each of us is unique.

I'd like to keep a little bit of the geek in The Doctor.
Now that I'm thinking of it, David Tennant played Barty Crouch in the HP movie. 3rd one, I think.

It was 4th one...

I couldn't remember which one, thanks.

Np.