Fantasy Book Club discussion

E wrote: "I'm thinking of buying large, print-quality maps to frame and decorate my apartment with.

Anyone know of a single site where I could find fantasy maps available for purchase?"

I actually got a couple from authors or book tours themselves. I have a lovely full colour Wheel of Time map that I got along with my "I Killed Asmodeon" bumper sticke from one of the book tour organisers. (Can I just say that bumper sticker ROCKS!?) So sometimes you don't even need to purchase them. Follow authors or fan groups on twitter or facebook and you'll find a LOT of opportunities. (Also, follow US on twitter and you will get a as many of these offers as we can find all in one spot!)

Mike wrote: "So, I think a lot of it depends on the book."

Ahh... yep! Pretty much! Though there are some hardcores that either hate maps or absolutely love them. I tend to agree with you. Sometimes lack of a map in a big world just confuses me. I got an e-book for The Way of Shadows and it was in a format that had no map. I was SOOOO lost! Once I finally found a map for that world, I was a happy Fox. :)

True, going to the "classic" I'd hate to have tried to plot Bilbo's journey without a map...much less Frodo's.

I mentioned Sasha. I don't know if you've read it, but talk about getting enmeshed in "world geopolitics...sheesh!

I love a good map. Anyone remember the cloth maps that came with the Ultima games? I still have my Ultima Exodus cloth map.

I don't have the map anymore, but I liked the early Ultima games. I think Avatar was the last I played though.

Patrick Rothfuss says that publishers resist putting in maps.

I like maps although most of the time I don't look at them unless I really have to. I miss those cloth maps!!! I remember those! (although I didn't play much of Ultima) (I'm more of a Baldur's Gate fan instead)

Sensitivemuse, me to. I played Ultima Exodus and Ultima Avatar but once it went mulitplayer I didn't go on with it. I loved Baldur's Gate and have probably played Baldur's Gate II and it's expansion more than any other PC game.

I figured you liked BGII :) your avatar says it all :D

But only a few would know that ;).

I used to like maps, but now I barely look at them. Geography is usually pretty arbitrary anyway, so you never really NEED to know where towns lie in relation to each other.

I will say that one reason I stopped paying attention to maps is that I would look at the map before reading the story, see a few locations that looked like they'd be involved in interesting parts of the story (remote places in the mountains or islands), only to have those places never even appear in the story itself.

Michael wrote: "I like maps in fantasy books, especially for the first book that I am reading. Sanderson usually has excellent maps for his worlds (WotK is a MASTERPIECE...that he paid out of his own pocket to hav..."

A masterpiece in your opinion.

I truly enjoyed Assassin's Apprentice even without the map.

Sometimes a book demands a map. Wurts' map on her website has been invaluable to me when reading The Wars of Light and Shadow, that is IMO a masterpiece.

LOTR maps are nothing like the maps in the Belgariad. Ok, you have trees and mountains and rivers, but if that is the comparison then im afraid all fantasy maps are the same?

Jenn{FoO fIgHtErS lUvA!!} wrote: "ya im with sandi
on this one. maps to me r a waste of paper. and in one series that ive read, the Belgariad, my friend said the maps r almost exact to the lord of the rings maps. i dont k..."

I too love maps. For anyone reading The Riyria Revelations - if you look at the maps closely you'll see some very minor changes as the series progress - not sure if that is a problem or not - but it was necessary.

I was in the bookstore yesterday looking at covers of fantasy books (trying to make some decisions on future covers) and I opened up a very famous author's book (cant remember who) and was shocked by the extremely amaturistic map that was in it - Could have been drawn by a 10-year old!!

I think a map is a great idea, but it's hard to do. Generally, authors do their own and while they may be great at writing, they're not so good at drawing.

As far as them being inconstant . . . well . . . authors change their mind sometimes. :D

Michael is luck as he is both an author and an artist -- I like his maps but LOVE his covers ;-)

Ok, I'm a cartographer....So I guess I love maps. In fact, I would say that the maps in the fantasy books I have read probably led me down the path to my currect occupation.

I love them. I adore them. They ARE, however, hard to do right. Some authors don't know how.

I personally DO feel a bit let down if I'm reading a fantasy novel and there is no map. A map to me is part of the world. Not just a way to follow journeys (though that is nice too). I prefer maps to be related to the story. To have elements of the narrative worked into it, as if the map CAME from the world.

Take the Lord of the Rings map. That map that you find in the back of the book is supposed to be the same map that the characters use throughout the adventure. It is not just a map of the story. It is PART of the story.

As an aspiring author myself, my maps have not only helped ME keep events and places together, but have led to me changing the story, or getting new ideas. The map isn't just a drawing. It is the world. (or a representation thereof...)

I like the map in Christopher Paolini's Eragon.
Eragon
I found the map to be simple, easy to follow, and proportionately accurate in comparison with how the book was written. I'm so impressed by how much detail went into this series for someone who started it when they were 15 and finished it when he was... what... 19? So inspiring and cool.

I like maps...no, I love maps. Real maps, fantasy maps, whatever. All things being equal I will buy a book with a map rather than one without.

But...BUT I really get upset when the maps is wrong or--as often happens with Prologues--major portions of the story happen somewhere not on the map.

I also get miffed by maps so small, such as those in Guy Gavriel Kay's books, that you can't read them--even with a magnifying glass.

Some thoughts I have on map creation and how I got the map I needed for my book The Squire. I hope it helps :) http://cpsennett.co.uk/?p=313

I took a gamble having a map designed for my book, certain there were people out there like me who like a map to ground themselves in the story landscape.

My map-maker was kind enough to finish the files in b/w for printing/clarity and a gorgeous weathered looking one that looks very much like the one my hero finds as spoils after a battle. I'm thinking of having a poster printed because I am that narcisstic and proud of my storyverse.

You can see both here:
Map Of Kerfdom Print
Map Of Kerfdom Weathered

As is the ongoing policy of this group, I ask you not to turn this thread or any other thread into an opportunity to promote your books. This group is for readers; authors too who are willing to participate as readers.

I don't mind maps, but honestly I could take them or leave them most times. If there is a map in the front of a book, I do find myself looking at it from time to time when places are mentioned or the character(s) are going to new spots, but if there's no map it doesn't really bother me.

To be fair, I'm terrible with directions in real life, and if given a map, I'd have no idea how to use it, so maybe that's it, haha. I prefer written down directions to places, personally, or using my GPS.

If they ever somehow manage to make a fantasy GPS and put it into an e-book to track the character's progress as you're reading, I'd probably like that kind of map. I don't think that's very feasible, though =P

I love that idea, Cerys! Kind of like the Harry Potter map where you could see the characters moving through the space! Each page you read, the character would move according to what was happening - it would be really helpful for books with complex battle-scenes. Some National Parks have interactive maps that show the movement of troops, like at Gettysburg - same type of feel. Seems like it should be do-able in ebook form, but it might be too small to read.

K.A. wrote: "I love that idea, Cerys! Kind of like the Harry Potter map where you could see the characters moving through the space! Each page you read, the character would move according to what was happening ..."

Maybe the future of ebook maps in that regard are links to websites. The sites could have some kind of programmed animations that ebooks might not be quite ready for yet.

Hopefully a really good writer can make you see the battlelines moving with quality writing.

Greg wrote: "K.A. wrote: "I love that idea, Cerys! Kind of like the Harry Potter map where you could see the characters moving through the space! Each page you read, the character would move according to what w..."

One would hope so, and indeed, I just finished Guy Gavriel Kay's A Song for Arbonne, where he accomplishes exactly that.

I love maps in fantasy books. They help bring me into the world.

This is a portion of the map I drew and included with my Gifts of Vorallon trilogy:

Thomas wrote: "I love maps in fantasy books. They help bring me into the world.

This is a portion of the map I drew and included with my Gifts of Vorallon trilogy:


"

Quoting my post above, Thomas:

As is the ongoing policy of this group, I ask you not to turn this thread or any other thread into an opportunity to promote your books. This group is for readers; authors too who are willing to participate as readers.

Depends. Maps don't work so well on Kindle, at least not the old kindle. They are definitely better in print! It is nice to see a map in a fantasy book:)

Thanks.

We have some software, the name escapes me, it is Ok but there is no way of undoing things if you discover something is wrong.

When I say I can't draw maps I REALLY can't. I have map blindness. Might have a lookee at this though.

Very odd my post isn't here for some reason, well not that I can see. It's a bit hard discussing my blog post (on this subject) if the mod's remove it, if they read it they will see its 100% map related and appropriate. All 1400+ words and 14 or so images in stage by stage process.

Anyhow Campaign Cartographer was good and I was really getting into it but I then changed computers and hadn't saved the map I had (epic fail). A total shocker, so I outsourced it and to be honest I got much, MUCH better results. The chap who did mine was excellent and did it all freehand somehow. I think he did it in Photoshop.

CC is good but I had a year or so between the one I made and lost and starting afresh. I tried to get back into it but just didn't have time to relearn the software.

C P wrote: "Very odd my post isn't here for some reason, well not that I can see. It's a bit hard discussing my blog post (on this subject) if the mod's remove it, if they read it they will see its 100% map r..."

I removed it because it is not related to the subject of the thread, which is whether or not we find maps helpful in reading fantasy. It looked to me like your post was to promote a website and how to make maps, definitely not the subject of the thread.

Perhaps it's time to work on a new map. It could show you how to circumvent Sandra aka Sleo and here finicky ways.

While I agree that an author should be able to allow the readers to visualize a journey with just words, I still appreciate maps and when they are included I refer to them often. I love maps in general, and get and keep them whenever I go somewhere, and often mark them up to show where I went and where I was, so I think that translates to reading that incorporates travel. It's also nice when an author actually has a layout in mind, rather than sending his/her characters on a journey through a world with no landmarks or obvious geography.

Thanks Greg for the kind offer but circumventing Sandra finicky moderation isn't something I'll rise to.

The original poster in the last paragraph talks purely about map design, the whole point of my blog post so I felt I was bang on target. Either way anyone who want's to read the post it's on Goodreads anyhow through my profile as it's a bit big to put here in one go.

A good map in a book is a nice freebie for readers and I would sooner have them than not and the great ones look like works of art.

This isn't exactly the warm welcome I would have hoped for but never mind, I suspect she means well.

One of the reasons I read fantasy books is because of the maps. K.A. got to it a bit, I think. Books with maps take you places that books without simply don't.

I've got maps in my books, and that's great. I don't want to shout that out to the heavens, but I don't want someone to tell me I can't. Still, fine lines can be walked, and it's often those fine lines on fantasy book maps that really draw readers in long term.

Well said, no other book genre really has maps and never as beautiful as the ones in fantasy books. Some are frankly amazing and I as a reader would always sooner see one in a book. Not a fan of the line drawing ones but the colour computer generated ones give the reader a lot extra for free.

Ebooks don't always like the computer general ones but a grey scale one works well.

I love having the map at the beginning of the novel or somewhere in the middle. Someplace where I can reference it while I am reading. It helps give me an idea of where the location of major cities are and if there is a battle where it takes place. Maps have always interested me and putting them into a book as part of the story makes it better.

Interesting as I have never seen one in the middle. A good idea potentially especially if it is focusing on where the characters at that time.

I've only ever seen them at the start or end.

That is true, CP. Usually they are right at the front or as an appendix. Having one mid book saying Paul, John, George and Ringo are here might be handy. Would it disrupt the flow.

I think maps work better for me in a book as opposed to an e-book. Kindle has funny moments with some maps (well mine does).

Yeah, I agree maps lend themselves best to paper. If one is to be included in an ebook, I think there should be a link to it on a website where it can be viewed or downloaded in larger size without glitches.

What are we really looking for in a map? A map is really just a bunch of lines on paper, but there are many lines to choose from.

Countries: These lines are often the most important, the physical boundaries between states or political entities.

Cities: These should nearly always be labeled if they're on the map. Sometimes you'll see cities or towns that are never even in the book, but I guess that lends a bit more realism.

Roads: You'll often see roads. Sometimes they won't all be labeled, and for really large maps this may not be possible.

Rivers: Another thing that's good to see, but it doesn't always need to be labeled.

Forests: I think it's good to have these, and the larger ones should have names. Still, something like Darkwood that's never mentioned in a book still sounds intriguing when placed on a map.

Lakes: About the same as forests.

Mountains: You've got to label the major ones. Is there a fantasy book without 'teeth' in at least one mountain range's name?

Seas: Seas and Oceans should usually be labeled, although not all always are.

Islands: You'll almost never see these mentioned or traveled to in books, but I like to see a few in my books' maps.

Key: Most maps should have this, but I rarely look at it.

Well, I think I'm mapped out.

Maps a staple of fantasy books that's true. So much so that in the creation of the Dictionary of Imaginary Places, many maps are included. I don't know if that book is still in print -- it was a gift -- but it is one of my most cherished books because of the maps.

I'm currently working on a novel for NaNoWriMo. I really need to plan out a map because trying to visualize it all in my head is quite frustrating.

This might give you some ideas:

http://www.bigskywords.com/1/post/201...